Apple 'Vehemently Disagrees' With U.S. Tech Company Antitrust Report

[vipergts2207]

Your original post said Microsoft could have a gaming service like Apple Arcade which I'm pointing out is incorrect, they can have one exactly the same. So they are playing my the same rules and not hobbling competitors.

That difference in how each game is technically played may be considered inconsequential by regulators. Apple's seemingly arbitrary distinction between downloading a game through Apple Arcade versus streaming a game through xCloud can still be called anti-competitive if that limitation doesn't have a legitimate reason outside of simply to disadvantage competitors. Such a rule also potentially serves to hamper innovation. Instead of someone being allowed to come up with a novel and superior way to allow consumers to play games (or do any other activity) on their smartphone, they would have to instead use Apple's dictated method.

 

[I7guy]

Did Microsoft try to abridge app store rules? I don't know. Did Microsoft try to abridge app store rules designed to give Apple an unfair advantage in the market? I don't know that either. I'm sure we'll find out more down the road.

Anti-competitiveness laws don't only apply to true monopolies. Why do you think the T-Mobile/Sprint merger was so heavily scrutinized? And in that market there were twice as many players as there are in the smartphone platform market, where you only have Apple and Google. You don't have to be a monopoly to abuse your market position.

Until at least they are found guilty, they aren't. Us posters trying to rationalize Apple's behavior isn't going to move the needle. We will just have to wait to see what happens.

 

[deevey]

I'm still confused at what you think is more sensitive that people keep or do on their phones, but didn't on their computer. Banking? Shopping? Pictures? Social media? All of that stuff was commonly done on PCs before smartphones became ubiquitous. I don't know why you're trying to rewrite history. Amazon didn't suddenly poof into existence in 2007 when the iPhone launched. Online banking was mainstream several years before the first iPhone. Xanga, Myspace and even Facebook were all around well before the iPhone.

During none of that time were Apple and Microsoft artificially limiting consumers to a walled garden of what you could install on your PC.

I'm not re-writing history, I'm well aware of the fact is that while sure a pc was used, a phone now contains more personal information than a computer ever did from their heath, contacts, photos, banking details, virtual credit cards, messaging services, social media etc. A phone goes with most people everywhere 24 hours a day and contains more data about their "life" than any other computing device ever has.

Even simple things like clipboards and notes often contain sensitive data, e.g. that new secure 26 digit alpha numeric password the IT dept sent you was able to be read by a number of apps. Basically a hackers wet dream.

So yeah, IMHO, more secure than a PC is needed a mobile device and walled gardens are a good thing.

Many of the services on the PC you mentioned back then were web-based and didn't require you to download an application to use the services (many still don't, but its better business if they provide one) and most peoples lives did not revolve around a laptop or PC the same way it does around a smart phone.

 

[deevey]

That difference in how each game is technically played may be considered inconsequential by regulators. Apple's seemingly arbitrary distinction between downloading a game through Apple Arcade versus streaming a game through xCloud can still be called anti-competitive if that limitation doesn't have a legitimate reason outside of simply to disadvantage competitors. Such a rule also potentially serves to hamper innovation. Instead of someone being allowed to come up with a novel and superior way to allow consumers to play games (or do any other activity) on their smartphone, they would have to instead use Apple's dictated method.

As a casual gamer, I prefer the idea of individual containers rather than a single app containing a launcher library. It also allows for individual parental controls via screen-time rather than requiring management via a third party.

The only real downside to MS is that they would not be able to promote the games they see fit, when they see fit.

 

[Nuno Lopes]

I'm not re-writing history, I'm well aware of the fact is that while sure a pc was used, a phone now contains more personal information than a computer ever did from their heath, contacts, photos, banking details, virtual credit cards, messaging services, social media etc. A phone goes with most people everywhere 24 hours a day and contains more data about their "life" than any other computing device ever has.

Even simple things like clipboards and notes often contain sensitive data, e.g. that new secure 26 digit alpha numeric password the IT dept sent you was able to be read by a number of apps. Basically a hackers wet dream.

So yeah, IMHO, more secure than a PC is needed a mobile device and walled gardens are a good thing.

Many of the services on the PC you mentioned back then were web-based and didn't require you to download an application to use the services (many still don't, but its better business if they provide one) and most peoples lives did not revolve around a laptop or PC the same way it does around a smart phone.

Yeah fear, fear, fear playing on peoples ignorance as ever.. It’s a great business.

But here the actual reality mobile phones have no more senstive data than any other computer you use directly or indirectly. By the way have a rain check the T2 chip on you iPhone ... security is a on going effort that requires the work of many companies, many suppliers, including Apple ... there is no miracle brand made bandage. You need to be smart and work with the companies and services that may seam more reliable at a point in time, but be reasonable because even those will eventually have a bite back once you are totally in the fold. Not with these excutives, maybe with some other that may come in the future ... the apetite for greater revenues is relentless.

I agree with you that Apple has contributed greatly to innovation in tech, its overthere in the top, legendary ... but its also true that they have been and will be compensated for it ... no need to to dip into other orgs businesses. The core issue is the App Store policies that no doubt gives them an upper hand on any digital businesses deals going through one in two American devices ... that is all. Nothing to do with security or privacy.

 

[amartinez1660]

What? It never cost that in mainstream software. 2k tops for access to SDKs and IDEs. Now, if your revenue is daí 500k you pay 150k.

Look I don’t mind you want to pay that much, give devs an option at market prices.

If you don’t believe me check the estimates cost of running the App Store with its revenue ... its Supra natural. You are paying much more now than you ever did for the things you mentioned. Can’t believe that intelligent people actually believe they only pay 100 bucks for the privilege.

I’ll admit that I don’t know exactly what’s the price in all of this, but in my early console dev kit dreams, I found figures impossible and the entry points (contacts and connections, publishers, etc) overwhelming.

I have these in old forums searches:
DS dev kit= $2500
PS2 dev kit= 18,500
PSP dev kit= $7000
first Xbox dev kit=$20,000

PS3 dev kit around $25K.

I remember Visual Studio 2008 enterprise (the same year the AppStore got introduced) was over $5K a year. Let’s put it at $1K for non-enterprise? I can’t remember. Windows today is still not free (I changed my computer, installed parallels desktop and the previous serial doesn’t work anymore... that it went away with the old . Game Engines were definitely not free.

Ten years of that is definitely way more than “2K tops for SDK and IDEs access”

Actually, fine, for $0 thanks to all of this you get OS X, XCode and all its libraries, ready made kits, etc... for $100 you can use your own device as the dev kit and publish directly.

Regarding costs, random example, suppose you manage to get 1Million users, how much would it cost to email them for each new patch or version available? Or use google maps queries? (Apple Maps is free on this front).

Now, again, I’ll admit being biased and not having the full picture. I’m still at the full entry level of this whole ordeal which $100 happens to be a great deal all things above mentioned... I wish I were at the $500K situation thinking what to do with the $350K, that would be a great problem to have... and a better one than giving still 30% to a retail store, 10% to random/distribution fees and 40% to a publisher (after a certain minimum threshold revenue is paid back to the publisher first).

 

[Maximara]

The only thing wrong with Apple these days is over charging for their lack of innovation.

Seems to have missed the news about ARM.

 

[Maximara]

You're being foolish with all three replies.
You know what I meant..but here you go

1. The point is it's unfair competition.
2. Competing Appstore for iPhones, there's none.
3. 30% for most Apps but not for certain others, think Amazon...Uber and the like.

1. How?
2. So I can install an Xbox game on a Nintendo? Oh wait a minute I can't.
3. Amazon already takes a 30% cut and Uber 20%. So if Apple didn't give them a break people who produce the good/provide would only get 40% and 50%. (Report: Steam's 30% Cut Is Actually the Industry Standard What percentage cut does Uber take from the total fare cost of a ride? ) And that Urer percentage is ignoring the possible shady way things are being done

 

[I7guy]

...
But here the actual reality mobile phones have no more senstive data than any other computer you use directly or indirectly...

Do you have a citation for this "fact"? Or is this just your opinion?

 

[lifeinhd]

Oh yeah, and 30% is small price compared to having to pay for printing, packaging, delivery and maintaining physical inventory for software.

The PC revolution came to fizzling end

And then the App Store came…

…and breathed new life to the solo entrepreneurial programmer market. A single programmer could actually make money simply by writing code and not have to design a package, have it printed, shipped to a distributer, make business contracts with retailers, and maintain physical inventory (what does all that have to do with programming?).

You realize you are conflating 90s computer and 2010s iPhone software installation methods, right? And that proper computers aren’t relegated to 90s methods of software purchasing and installation? 🙄

 

[Maximara]

I tend to doubt it. There are prior court rulings in the U.S. (like Psystar) that said a company was legally allowed to control what hardware its own OS was installed on. Perhaps they could pass something that said you couldn't prevent installation of a competing OS on your hardware (kind of like a legally required Boot Camp). I don't think they could force Apple to make iOS/iPadOS available outside of their own hardware in the United States.

The thing is Apple added violations of the DMCA to its list of charges against Psystar which the court agreed with ( Judge's ruling puts legal nail in Psystar's coffin ) So to do as you suggest would require changing the DMCA. I think one would have a better change of getting a concrete plane to fly...even if it was fired from a catapult.

I'm not sure where congress is going to go from here as normally 98% of them are re-elected but with things the way they are things are not normal.

 

[Blu Reel]

You realize you are conflating 90s computer and 2010s iPhone software installation methods, right? And that proper computers aren’t relegated to 90s methods of software purchasing and installation? 🙄

I am equating the App Store concept which exists on both the iOS platform as well as the Mac platform.

 

[bollman]

There are many choices for smartphones. The iPhone in particular isn't essential, is it?

No, there are not many choices, there are 2. And one of them is using some questionable actions to defend income. Google could easily lower their "tax" on IAP and it wouldn't hurt their bottom line in any significant way since there are so many other ways to install apps on Android already. For Apple though, it would make a dent in earnings and most probably their stock, which would not look good.
Apple knows their iPhone sales has plateaued despite great Q3 numbers and they need to expand services to keep making record income. "IAP-tax" is one way of increasing income.

 

[hot-gril]

No, there are not many choices, there are 2. And one of them is using some questionable actions to defend income. Google could easily lower their "tax" on IAP and it wouldn't hurt their bottom line in any significant way since there are so many other ways to install apps on Android already. For Apple though, it would make a dent in earnings and most probably their stock, which would not look good.
Apple knows their iPhone sales has plateaued despite great Q3 numbers and they need to expand services to keep making record income. "IAP-tax" is one way of increasing income.

There are 2 OSs, many phonemakers. Android isn't even one OS once you consider that every maker has its own fork. Android, which has enough marketshare to be totally viable, provides all the freedom you could want.

 

[hot-gril]

You realize you are conflating 90s computer and 2010s iPhone software installation methods, right? And that proper computers aren’t relegated to 90s methods of software purchasing and installation? 🙄

It's like that modern-day. How often do you buy Mac apps? The experience is much better on iOS and always has been.

 

[hot-gril]

I'm not re-writing history, I'm well aware of the fact is that while sure a pc was used, a phone now contains more personal information than a computer ever did from their heath, contacts, photos, banking details, virtual credit cards, messaging services, social media etc. A phone goes with most people everywhere 24 hours a day and contains more data about their "life" than any other computing device ever has.

Even simple things like clipboards and notes often contain sensitive data, e.g. that new secure 26 digit alpha numeric password the IT dept sent you was able to be read by a number of apps. Basically a hackers wet dream.

So yeah, IMHO, more secure than a PC is needed a mobile device and walled gardens are a good thing.

Many of the services on the PC you mentioned back then were web-based and didn't require you to download an application to use the services (many still don't, but its better business if they provide one) and most peoples lives did not revolve around a laptop or PC the same way it does around a smart phone.

That, and hardware "security" (through obscurity) is important on phones because they're more likely to be physically stolen and usually don't have cryptographically secure passwords.