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The App Store is really the only place Apple needs regulated in the first place.

Apple doesn’t review all Mac apps and they don’t need to review all iOS apps that aren’t in the App Store. We’re all grownups here and can take responsibility for ourselves just as with installing PC software. They just need to allow a way for apps to be installed outside of the App Store.

Well over half of 11 year olds in the USA own smartphones and are defineltly not tech-savvy enough to avoid installing dodgy apps that are not vetted.

Sure blame the parents, but the majority of them would have no clue either about what is a legit download and what's not.

I have at least one call a month from a friend or family member on Android who managed to install "some app" thats either slowing down their phone to a crawl, or full-on malware.
 
Well over half of 11 year olds in the USA own smartphones and are defineltly not tech-savvy enough to avoid installing dodgy apps that are not vetted.

Sure blame the parents, but the majority of them would have no clue either about what is a legit download and what's not.

I have at least one call a month from a friend or family member on Android who managed to install "some app" thats either slowing down their phone to a crawl, or full-on malware.

Easy solution would be to put a parental control option in there that only allows downloads from the Apple app store. If parents can't figure that out, then it is their fault. Outside of that, we don't need Apple playing nanny for stupid people.
 
Easy solution would be to put a parental control option in there that only allows downloads from the Apple app store. If parents can't figure that out, then it is their fault. Outside of that, we don't need Apple playing nanny for stupid people.
I think we do need Apply playing nanny. That is one of the core things that made the app store successful to begin with.

We all will have our opinion on this point.
 
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After cursory read, found this section interesting:
"Although both Google Android and Apple iOS both have dominant positions in the mobile OS market, high switching costs and a lack of on-device competition mean that neither firm’s market power is disciplined by the presence of the other. The European Commission’s investigation into Google’s Android platform found that because iOS is not available on non-Apple devices, it cannot constrain Google’s dominance in the mobile OS market. Conversely, Android is not available on Apple devices and does not constrain Apple’s dominant position and conduct on Apple mobile devices. An investment research firm recently noted that switching costs were high for Apple users because iOS is not available on non-Apple devices."

Report "...recommends that Congress consider data interoperability and portability to encourage competition by lowering entry barriers for competitors and switching costs by consumers."

From reading that I wonder if Apple could be forced to license iOS or allow Android on iPhones...

I tend to doubt it. There are prior court rulings in the U.S. (like Psystar) that said a company was legally allowed to control what hardware its own OS was installed on. Perhaps they could pass something that said you couldn't prevent installation of a competing OS on your hardware (kind of like a legally required Boot Camp). I don't think they could force Apple to make iOS/iPadOS available outside of their own hardware in the United States.
 
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The idea 3 companies in play is enough to grantee a safe and competitive landscape in the US or Globally is ludicrous. As ludicrous as the idea of ... “want to compete with Apple Music? Build your own device” ... “What not to pay us to serve your customers ... build your own device”.... This later argument is of course another a fallacy as far as competition is concerned ...

How is this a fallacy, why is there no other competition?, why not a Samsung OS, or Asus OS ? Everyone took the easy option and used an off-the-shelf turnkey solution and helped turned Google into a giant just like the PC industry did.

Huawei looks to be the only other smartphone manufacturer at this point who are trying to getting away from Android somewhat with Harmony OS and you know, best of luck to them, they deserve every success for breaking the stagnant mold.

So, really is nothing stopping others from building their own Hardware/OS/App Store and becoming as big as Apple. But either no-one believes they are good enough or is willing to spend their billions of cash on R&D, Hardware, Marketing to even bother.
 
Socialism and capitalism are not mutually exclusive. Strange that the end point of hard capitalism is monopoly which is the same a a one party system in politics or a dictator of any political direction. If the marker cannot fix market economy, which require multiple actor in one market place.

An easy fix would be to let app buyers carry over their purchases between platforms so any apps, books, movies must be moved between Apple App Store to correspondent Android App Store when the buyer switch platform.

You can do it if you write a nice mail to the developer, but ultimately it's their decision. Movies etc. are already carried over automatically anyhow once you sign into whatever service you are using.

Doing it automatically though would require information exchanges to take place between both stores and developers (and probably politicians) would not be happy.
 
Does the general public really know all that? Does you ederly grandmother know that...your teenage daughter?

Here's a thing; when Apple, for arguments sake, next week announce all of their phones with a USB C port and no charger or earbuds in the box; everyone will just know that or just those who frequent a few rumour / tech sites?

Being ignorant of what you're buying is not an excuse...
 
I think we do need Apply playing nanny. That is one of the core things that made the app store successful to begin with.

We all will have our opinion on this point.

Maybe I wasn't clear, I'm not talking about Apple not playing nanny in the app store. That's perfectly fine. I'm talking about the OS/apps overall. There should be an easy, alternative way to get apps on your phone outside of the Apple app store, just like you can on a Mac. The Mac app store is there for those who want to stay inside the wall, or you can go download and install other apps from wherever you choose. You could have the same thing on the iPhone. At this point it's just an artificial, anti-competitive limitation that helps Apple make a bunch of money.
 
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Well what did you think they were gonna say, “woop, yeah ya got us. Our bad. Sorry bout that.”
Christ.
 
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Easy solution would be to put a parental control option in there that only allows downloads from the Apple app store. If parents can't figure that out, then it is their fault. Outside of that, we don't need Apple playing nanny for stupid people.

Do you have that much of a hard-on for the Apple hardware that you couldn't switch to your preferred method of installing apps via an Android Phone ?

You have a choice, and I have the choice of choosing a devices and an eco-system that best suits me and my family that does not require a well informed and educated adult to keep secure at all times.

Of course you could always jailbreak your device, easy enough if you are a techie and stop trying to tear down the very reason I chose my preferred device.

The fact is we don't live in a world yet where everyone is informed enough to make informed decisions about what's safe and what's not, and certainly not on the interwebs.

I'd warrant a massive majority of adults with kids are first-gen users who have no clue and are not capable of managing devices, they can install apps, play games, post to FB etc ... but they are not informed about their actions.

Teens-Young Adults the second gen, do run rings around their parents in terms of what's they can achieve with their devices, but clueless when it comes to privacy or security.

It won't be until a generation who have ALL have grown up with this technology, and been educated specifically on their management that the world might be capable of making those informed decisions (and mistakes) and the reins could potentially be relaxed.

If you give someone a key and present them with locked door with the promise there is something worthwhile behind it (e.g. that viral cat game they saw on FB) they WILL open it - game over.
 
Maybe I wasn't clear, I'm not talking about Apple not playing nanny in the app store. That's perfectly fine. I'm talking about the OS/apps overall. There should be an easy, alternative way to get apps on your phone outside of the Apple app store, just like you can on a Mac. The Mac app store is there for those who want to stay inside the wall, or you can go download and install other apps from wherever you choose. You could have the same thing on the iPhone. At this point it's just an artificial limitation that helps Apple make a bunch of money.
Ah. Thanks for clarifying. I disagree about the side-loading apps (or alternate app stores for that matter). In my own opinion this will devalue the entire ios platform. I do think if Apple is forced to offer alternative app stores, they should be allowed to charge whatever the market will bear for distribution certificates.

Of course, policy decisions on this topic go above my pay grade. I am just voicing an opinion.
 
Do you have that much of a hard-on for the Apple hardware that you couldn't switch to your preferred method of installing apps via an Android Phone ?

You have a choice, and I have the choice of choosing a devices and an eco-system that best suits me and my family that does not require a well informed and educated adult to keep secure at all times.

Of course you could always jailbreak your device, easy enough if you are a techie and stop trying to tear down the very reason I chose my preferred device.

The fact is we don't live in a world yet where everyone is informed enough to make informed decisions about what's safe and what's not, and certainly not on the interwebs.

I'd warrant a massive majority of adults with kids are first-gen users who have no clue and are not capable of managing devices, they can install apps, play games, post to FB etc ... but they are not informed about their actions.

Teens-Young Adults the second gen, do run rings around their parents in terms of what's they can achieve with their devices, but clueless when it comes to privacy or security.

It won't be until a generation who have ALL have grown up with this technology, and been educated specifically on their management that the world might be capable of making those informed decisions (and mistakes) and the reins could potentially be relaxed.

If you give someone a key and present them with locked door with the promise there is something worthwhile behind it (e.g. that viral cat game they saw on FB) they WILL open it - game over.

First of all, yes I love Apple hardware and software and have no interest in going Android. I'm fully embedded in the Apple ecosystem as you can see from my sig. None of your reasons for choosing Apple devices would change by allowing apps installed from outside of the app store. Nobody is forcing you to do so. You wouldn't even need well informed and educated adults if the default setting is to only allow Apple store apps, requiring someone to intentionally change that setting. Even throw up a warning that doing so could allow malware, buggy software, etc to be installed on your device. If someone manages to still mess up their phone at that point, then it's on them. It's certainly no reason to allow anti-competitive behavior to go on unabated.

Also, your analysis of kid's and parent's ability with phones is quite a bit off I think. The people with kids now are millennials and some of the youngest gen-Xers. Even the very youngest millenials are 24 now and the oldest are approaching 40. The people with kids now all grew up with computers and transitioned to smartphones and tablets without issue. Parents have grown up with this technology, you just hold it in your hand instead of using it at a desk.
 
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How dare the government try and disrupt the iOS operating system that I implicitly trust and love! This is why I buy Apple products for Pete’s sake! Keep your ignorant hands off!
I cant tell if you're being serious, or mocking those who blindly agree with anything Apple says or does.
 
Ah. Thanks for clarifying. I disagree about the side-loading apps (or alternate app stores for that matter). In my own opinion this will devalue the entire ios platform. I do think if Apple is forced to offer alternative app stores, they should be allowed to charge whatever the market will bear for distribution certificates.

Of course, policy decisions on this topic go above my pay grade. I am just voicing an opinion.

I don't see why it would devalue iOS. Is macOS devalued because you can install apps from outside the app store? If Apple locked down macOS the way Apple does iOS, the Mac userbase would riot. I'd even go as far to say it would be the death of the Mac.
 
The only thing wrong with Apple these days is over charging for their lack of innovation.
 
Most analogies here are totally moot points.

The smartphone is an essential utility, just like an internet connection. It started out like a "cool thing" you could live without but today, it is at least over here in Sweden something you hardly can live without to be able to get through your daily life. You pay your bills using it, do your banking, interact with government, pay your commuter tickets. In many cases, it's the smartphone way or no way at all, much to the dread of the elderly.
There are many choices for smartphones. The iPhone in particular isn't essential, is it?
 
Maybe I wasn't clear, I'm not talking about Apple not playing nanny in the app store. That's perfectly fine. I'm talking about the OS/apps overall. There should be an easy, alternative way to get apps on your phone outside of the Apple app store, just like you can on a Mac. The Mac app store is there for those who want to stay inside the wall, or you can go download and install other apps from wherever you choose. You could have the same thing on the iPhone. At this point it's just an artificial, anti-competitive limitation that helps Apple make a bunch of money.

The problem with "an easy, alternative way to get apps on your phone outside of the Apple App Store" is that if you open that door, then you also easily get viruses and hackers into your system.

So far, there has been no other solution at preventing and/or severely minimizing viruses and hackers on any software platform other than to "box" it in.

When you can name more than 1 software platform immune to viruses and hackers, then we can start talking about opening your primary 9-1-1 access to other easy and alternative ways to get software on your phone. Otherwise, it would totally suck if you need 911 help and you get a ransomware message.
 
The problem with "an easy, alternative way to get apps on your phone outside of the Apple App Store" is that if you open that door, then you also easily get viruses and hackers into your system.

So far, there has been no other solution at preventing and/or severely minimizing viruses and hackers on any software platform other than to "box" it in.

When you can name more than 1 software platform immune to viruses and hackers, then we can start talking about opening your primary 9-1-1 access to other easy and alternative ways to get software on your phone. Otherwise, it would totally suck if you need 911 help and you get a ransomware message.

Fear mongering, but if that is such a concern to you, then don't install software from outside of the app store and you don't have to worry about it.
 
I don't see why it would devalue iOS. Is macOS devalued because you can install apps from outside the app store? If Apple locked down macOS the way Apple does iOS, the Mac userbase would riot. I'd even go as far to say it would be the death of the Mac.

For the majority of people there is far more sensitive data on their phones these days than there ever was on a home computer.
 
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Some of those have to compete with Apple while Apple does not have to pay the 30%.. 🤔
If Apple had to pay itself the 30% for being in it's own App Store, how would that work? 😉

Again, there's no competing AppStore.
There is the Google Play store. Amazon has an app store. Microsoft has an app store. I suppose you're right and calling them "competition" would be a stretch. 😉

And then some Apps pay the 30% while others don't.
Well, yeah, Apple doesn't collect the 30% for free apps. What 30% of zero again? 😉
 
Oh come now, that's not even remotely the same thing! DVD Players don't physically have BluRay drives. But you can create your own DVDs, and the players won't stop you from playing them.



The second part of your sentence is not a natural consequence of the first part. I don't think that the owners of a platform should have control over what users do with the platform. Consoles are designed for games, yes, but if I want to make and sell my own games, it should be up to consumers whether to buy what I create.

And, who knows—tools get repurposed in novel ways all the time! Toasters can't bake cake, but you're welcome to try, and maybe create a new food in the process.

I'm being extreme with the examples for the sake of the discussion, but it's relatable. On the Nintendo Switch discussions examples going before, it doesn't physically have DVDs or similar optical drives either, it has purpose made cartridges (and the online store).

Maybe Apple doesn't trust the hardware infrastructure, security in place, etc that third party stores might have. Maybe they want to have all apps stored in their "100% renewable energy data centers". The argument of not having a physically built-in feature could be made along the whole pipeline. Maybe signing apps on third party stores could come with access to corporate secrets, maybe knowing about that T2 chip that's making the news lately about being potentially flawed.

This doesn't mean that we don't have a choice though, we can always buy either a Nintendo console, an XBox, PS, an iPhone, an Android, buy things on the stores or not.

Toasters: Agreed on that experimentation side of things, but regarding novel ways to use existing gadgets, the hackers/researches/jailbreakers/etc of the world are not stopped by this... most consoles can be hacked to run Linux for example, custom emulators, saw a video running GTA3 on a Switch, etc... in the same way a DIYer gets said toaster, plugs an Arduino somehow and makes, dunno, a temperature driven house heater with it that makes grilled bread too.

On the key points: Consoles are designed for games, yes, but if I want to make and sell my own games, it should be up to consumers whether to buy what I create.

This is not really an issue currently, I can, for a measly fee of $100 a year, get access to all the tools, distribution channels, infrastructure, user traffic, hosting, storage, review/patch/update support with infinite tries... users can then device to buy it or not.

I really think this has been taken out of proportion and I hope, like I have said many times before, it doesn't get back to the dark ages of $100k+ per program/game/devkit-license/etc instead of said $100 fee + 30% IF it takes off.
 
If Apple had to pay itself the 30% for being in it's own App Store, how would that work? 😉


There is the Google Play store. Amazon has an app store. Microsoft has an app store. I suppose you're right and calling them "competition" would be a stretch. 😉


Well, yeah, Apple doesn't collect the 30% for free apps. What 30% of zero again? 😉

You're being foolish with all three replies.
You know what I meant..but here you go

1. The point is it's unfair competition.
2. Competing Appstore for iPhones, there's none.
3. 30% for most Apps but not for certain others, think Amazon...Uber and the like.
 
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