Apple Vision Pro is NOT expensive and Not VR device.

[bkkcanuck8]

Do you still have it? Could you post a pic?

No, got rid of it more than 20 years ago... I move around too much (or did) and shipping all the contents of my place would have been insane... I did manage to at least keep something not so old, my 2008 mac pro is in a box on a shelf in my storage room - I brought that one on in my luggage from Toronto -> Chicago -> Tokyo -> Bangkok. To think, I think I roughly calculated the performance of the IBM PC to my 2008 Mac Pro and I think it was 'at least' 100,000 times more powerful (probably more). The 8088 had no floating point and I don't know anyone that bought the 8087 co-processor for floating point calcs. God only knows how fast the 'Space Invaders' game implementation on Z80 would run - I wrote that for the Z80 (in assembly) and without any delay in movements - they landed in a blink of an eye (the block graphics were 6 blocks per character I think - which amazingly looked extremely close to the arcade game).

 

[wrcousert]

Did the original IBM PC (model 5150) have a socket for an 8087 math co-processor? Did IBM offer them as options?

 

[bkkcanuck8]

Did the original IBM PC (model 5150) have a socket for an 8087 math co-processor? Did IBM offer them as options?

Yes, there was a socket - I seem to remember priced in the hundreds of dollars - but at that time it was my father buying things - I assume you could purchase it since there was a price for it. I remember DOS 1.1 - no directories, no hard drive support - no hard drives, we had two floppy drives... the memory was limited when we first purchased it (16 KB sounds like it)... we had an Electrohome fuzzy CGA monitor with a CGA graphics card from IBM... and a printer. I remember writing a communications program with IBM Macro Assembler and there were only error numbers since not enough memory built in for the short english message... I got an error 51.... and I looked it up... and it was reserved for future use... oh, how I preferred Z80 assembler.... I hated the paged memory mapping where you could not access all the memory - only small pages at a time.

 

[TLewis]

Yes, the Vision Pro is expensive.

Yes, the Vision Pro is relatively unaffordable.

However, the Vision Pro is basically a gen 1 device heralding the future. Of course, it's going to be expensive and unaffordable.

In 1984, the first IBM PC had a starting price of $1565; that's over $5700 today. That's more expensive and unaffordable than the Vision Pro.

In 1984, the Apple Macintosh 128K cost about $2500. Today, that would be over $7000. That's even more expensive and unaffordable than the Vision Pro. Can you say, "expensive and unaffordable"? And yet here we are.

Yeah, all of us would rather have a less expensive product, but that's how it is. First-gen products are typically very expensive.

 

[bkkcanuck8]

Yes, the Vision Pro is expensive.

Yes, the Vision Pro is relatively unaffordable.

However, the Vision Pro is basically a gen 1 device heralding the future. Of course, it's going to be expensive and unaffordable.

In 1984, the first IBM PC had a starting price of $1565; that's over $5700 today. That's more expensive and unaffordable than the Vision Pro.

In 1984, the Apple Macintosh 128K cost about $2500. Today, that would be over $7000. That's even more expensive and unaffordable than the Vision Pro. Can you say, "expensive and unaffordable"? And yet here we are.

Yeah, all of us would rather have a less expensive product, but that's how it is. First-gen products are often very expensive.

1984 was the year of IBM PC/AT... My father got that as an upgrade but this time he got his board to approve it (he reported to the board) for the home office. Oh, that price was in USD and with NO floppy drives (to do anything useful you need 2 of those). If I remember right they dropped the technical manual when they brought out the AT... so disappointing... the technical manual had the schematics and the bios code. I also have a fond memory of IBM back in those days, they use to have a local office (not a retail location as they indicated) and I went there to get some technical documentation for their bigger systems etc... which they could not sell since they were not retail... but they basically gave me whatever I wanted for free (documentationwise).

 

[Piggie]

The question I keep asking myself is which direction will Apple go with a "Consumer Affordable Model" And by that we must be talking the $1000 mark max I'd suggest.

Are the just going to hope that, in the next 1, 2, 3, 5 years that the components in the current headset will come down in price so much that this will just happen automatically.
Or are they going to be removing parts of the current headset in order to bring it's price down to a third or less of what it is now?

They can junk the Spooky Eye's screen on the front for starters (this many even get scrapped anyway many have said)
But what else can they strip out?

 

[TLewis]

If you look at the history of personal computing, it took maybe 10-20+ years before personal computers became "affordable" to the average consumer. Keep in mind that the 1984 Macintosh 128K would cost over $7000 today, which is even less affordable than the Vision Pro, and yet the Macintosh remained popular. Headsets like the Vision Pro will likely be similar, and so it'll be many years.

Affordability isn't happening any time soon.

Edit: also, I'm sure Apple will eventually release an "Air" or "SE" version, but that's probably 2+ years off. Any earlier, and they'll cannibalize Vision Pro sales, and Apple needs to recoup some of the R&D costs, etc.. Even the Homepod Mini was released nearly three (3) years after the Homepod, and the Homepod gen2 was released another 2ish years after that.

 

[matrix07]

this many even get scrapped anyway many have said)

Many also said Apple should put a touch screen on a Mac.

 

[bkkcanuck8]

If you look at the history of personal computing, it took maybe 10-20+ years before personal computers became "affordable" to the average consumer. Keep in mind that the 1984 Macintosh 128K would cost over $7000 today, which is even less affordable than the Vision Pro, and yet the Macintosh remained popular. Headsets like the Vision Pro will likely be similar, and so it'll be many years.

Affordability isn't happening any time soon.

Edit: also, I'm sure Apple will eventually release an "Air" or "SE" version, but that's probably 2+ years off. Any earlier, and they'll cannibalize Vision Pro sales, and Apple needs to recoup some of the R&D costs, etc.. Even the Homepod Mini was released nearly three (3) years after the Homepod, and the Homepod gen2 was released another 2ish years after that.

light high value sales don't recoup the R&D, large volumes of regular margins do. i.e. Mac Pro and Mac Studio would generate less income than the consumer level devices. However, lowering the price will not lead to more sales since they are going to only be able to produce fairly small numbers of units (i.e. half a million a year in 2024 likely), and all of them are going to sell. Apple also does not want to build a device that is not aspirational but just competes with the low price models out today. (i.e. lowering their standards, better to have todays standards for cheaper 2+ years after introduction).

Things can move quicker these days with new products. Back then the components would be limited and expensive... and most people had no idea of what the heck they would use personal computers for.

 

[macfacts]

I wonder if the average person on the street will have to wait for the second generation Vision Pro, or will Apple make more of the first generation if there is enough demand for it? If it's a wait for the second generation, I wonder how long that might be?

What would a 2nd generation vision pro bring? Faster CPU? Longer battery? Sharper screen?

 

[k995]

Microsoft HoloLens

Landing page for Microsoft HoloLens.

www.microsoft.com

First thing, Vision Pro is NOT just a VR device and you probably need to compare with AR device. There are quite a lot of people misunderstanding between AR and VR.

Beside, MS already made HoloLens several years ago and they cost $3500 so for Apple Vision Pro with a premium price, it's not really bad.

But yeah, I hope they can make Vision Air lower than $1000 in some point.

Hololens was expensive as well.

The issue is: what do you get for that price. And imho thats a big question.

I have little doubt some people will greatly use it and will be more then happy to pay cause for them its worth it, but seeing its geared towards regular consumers : its very expensive compared to what its supposed to replace.

 

[k995]

People really aren't getting the Vision Pro.

• Just as the Apple Lisa and Macintosh 128K were harbingers of the future, so is this.
• Just as the Apple Lisa and Macintosh 128K were horribly unaffordable for most families, so is this. Adjusted for today's dollars, a Lisa would cost around $30000 today and a Macintosh 128K would cost over $7000. The Vision Pro is "cheap" by comparison (but still unaffordable by most). So it's unaffordable. Gen1 devices often are. I'll also guess that a decently-configured Vision Pro will cost around $4000-$4500. Screw the $3500.
• Computers with GUIs and a mouse were unaffordable in the beginning, yet here we are. While this will sell, I don't see it becoming "affordable" for at least another 10-15+ years -- possibly longer. Yes, we'll all be waiting a long time.

Yeah but you are forgetting those had "killer apps" where they actually saved time or money to the consumer.
APple also gave a lot of discounts so the price what the average buyer bought it at was a lot lower.

I dont see a killer app so far on this.

 

[redbeard331]

Microsoft HoloLens

Landing page for Microsoft HoloLens.

www.microsoft.com

First thing, Vision Pro is NOT just a VR device and you probably need to compare with AR device. There are quite a lot of people misunderstanding between AR and VR.

Beside, MS already made HoloLens several years ago and they cost $3500 so for Apple Vision Pro with a premium price, it's not really bad.

But yeah, I hope they can make Vision Air lower than $1000 in some point.

I expect it will sell out within seconds of going on sale, all things considered it’s not really that expensive for a lot of people out there. Hell I’ve spent more than 3500 in the last 3 weeks on a MacBook and some lenses for my camera.

It comes down to usefulness though, I needed a new computer, and the lenses will last many many years and get a ton of use. To buy one of these for me it would be nothing more than a toy, so it would not be a wise way to spend money, but for those with the disposable income it will be a fun toy for them. Better be ready to purchase and be fast on launch day though!

 

[macfacts]

I expect it will sell out within seconds of going on sale, all things considered it’s not really that expensive for a lot of people out there. Hell I’ve spent more than 3500 in the last 3 weeks on a MacBook and some lenses for my camera.

It comes down to usefulness though, I needed a new computer, and the lenses will last many many years and get a ton of use. To buy one of these for me it would be nothing more than a toy, so it would not be a wise way to spend money, but for those with the disposable income it will be a fun toy for them. Better be ready to purchase and be fast on launch day though!

There is no launch day,y you have to fill out an application next month. Last paragraph of this M R story says that https://www.macrumors.com/2023/06/21/apple-vision-pro-sdk/

 

[redbeard331]

There is no launch day,y you have to fill out an application next month. Last paragraph of this M R story says that https://www.macrumors.com/2023/06/21/apple-vision-pro-sdk/

Isn’t that just for devs though? Theres no public release next year?

 

[macfacts]

Isn’t that just for devs though? Theres no public release next year?

Public release hasn't even been announced yet

 

[bkkcanuck8]

Public release hasn't even been announced yet

They announced 'early next year', which I translate to first 4 months.... they won't want it still unreleased on the one year anniversary of WWDC (June 3rd/10th)... my guess is that it will ship 2 weeks after a March event so probably first week or second week in April...

 

[redbeard331]

Public release hasn't even been announced yet

Well that’s what I meant, the public release, whenever it happens to be.

I wonder if they’ll let people try them out? I think if they do it will be by appointment only and then maybe only for people who pre-ordered one. And then after each time someone wears one they will be taken into the back and cleaned and sanitized with a uv light or something along those lines.

Can you imagine how grungy those things would get if they just let everyone put them on all day! 😳😳😷

 

[HDFan]

There is no launch day,y you have to fill out an application next month. Last paragraph of this M R story

That's just the development kit. The only way Developers can access the hardware right now is to go to specific Apple offices.

 

[Piggie]

Many also said Apple should put a touch screen on a Mac.

Indeed and they will do.

 

[TLewis]

They announced 'early next year', which I translate to first 4 months.... they won't want it still unreleased on the one year anniversary of WWDC (June 3rd/10th)... my guess is that it will ship 2 weeks after a March event so probably first week or second week in April...

Yup. Whenever Apple is vague with release dates, it seems that the release is often towards the end. So, it's a good bet that "early next year" is likely "towards the end of early next year", and March-May would be that -- 9-10+ months from now. Most of a year.

 

[pdoherty]

This will create more coach potatoes.

Sedentary lifestylers...

 

[pdoherty]

Ofcourse this thing is crazy expensive. Can you use it with Flight Simulator or Racing Simulators on PC or gaming consoles? Nope.

You can only use it with mobile apps and mobile games.

If you could use it with PC games, then it could be interesting for $3500.

Yeah, but you can already use a $450 Quest 2 with PC games (via some apps/tweaking) - you can grab any Steam Rift/Oculus title and play using the power of the PC but using the Quest 2 for input/display.

 

[WebHead]

I dont see a killer app so far on this.

It will be revolutionary for the business/professional market, not so much for the consumer.

The inevitable Apple Glasses, on the other hand...

 

[macfacts]

It will be revolutionary for the business/professional market, not so much for the consumer.

The inevitable Apple Glasses, on the other hand...

We don't even know if this can run mac OS apps or be used as a screen for pc. This can only run iOS apps, what business besides restaurants use iPads?