Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
I have yet to see any voice-only games that, for me, are nearly as fun as the one that I play on my screen. And so I think voice assistants are incredibly powerful, their intelligence is going to grow, they're gonna do more for us, but the role of the screen is gonna remain very important to all of this.​


So this guy named Phil, head of marketing, makes the argument that voice assistant apps need a screen because he hasn't seen a voice only game that is fun.

The only voice only game I know is that one where you whisper something to someone and then they have to whisper it so someone else and then eventually it gets back to you and you all laugh about how messed up it became before talking about how gossip is bad.
 
  • Like
Reactions: macfacts
When you ask for train times for example and it reels on 5 it's difficult to remember the reply.

Super-powerful artificial intelligence thinks for a microsecond (hmm: response contains times and dates) and:

"Hi, would you like me to send those times to the calendar on your iPhone?"

...hardly deducing the existence of income tax and rice pudding there, really.

Of course, if I plump for the Google option it would probably send it to my Google calendar so I could access it on my Android phone and not just on my iDevices.
 
Samsung took a multi billion dollar write off on the Note 7. There is no AI war and how is MS winning the laptop war? You are long on unsubstantiated opinion and short of facts.

Yes, and during that multi-billion dollar write-off year, Apple didn't bring very many new features to market.

For whatever reason, there were a lot of people that may have considered a Samsung Note. My husband was one of them. We already have iPhones and iPhone Plus'es. We wanted to try something new but the product was hurried to market.

So, Samsung has a unique opportunity to WIN BACK customers that for one reason or another, selected an iPhone simply because it was the only option being sold.

Going forward, all Apple employees can do is ask (in a smug way) if you want a phone that catches fire. And that's okay. But there are so many things wrong with Apple that it's worth shopping around and considering other companies. Fuzzy backgrounds in portrait photos doesn't justify a $800-$900 (unsubsidized price) sale.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TechGeek76
Here's a tip, Phil: fix Siri first, make grandiose comments later.

Amen to that! I can't believe after all these years she still screws up the simplest of commands! I and down to simple creating reminders now and half the time those are screwed up! I thought the "server side" interpretations were suppose to get better over time? Almost seems to be getting worse
 
No matter what apple comes to the table with, Siri needs to be improved. The reason I have Alexa at home is not cause the hardware is great value, or that the hardware is awesome, it's cause Siri sucks .

I've played with a S8 all week , it will not replace my iPhone, but Damn Siri is a major step back. Fix Siri please!!
[doublepost=1494087178][/doublepost]
I've said it before, saying it again - the ATV4 had enough horsepower to be the hub for home automation. Add to that, that they could easily have done grid computing with all of your Apple devices in your home - the more you buy into the ecosystem, the more intelligent your assistant will be. (could have built that into iTunes to snag CPU cycles from your Windoze boxes too).

Why Apple didn't snag the guys that created Siri and keep them in house so they could continue to evolve it?! They're too far behind now...

The ATV had lots of potential , I still really like my ATV4, hate the remote though with a passion...major gimmick fail. It should have been a home hub for automation and not a ***** App Store.
 
  • Like
Reactions: otternonsense
The biggest problem with Phil's mother, and him quoting a dead family member, is that it really seems Phil doesn't get out much. Remember the TWBA MediaLABS emails..?

So, when you think about it, he's referencing the way people were raised before computers and asking probing questions.

Phil's logic is flawed. It isn't about having something "nice" to say, but getting an answer. So, I get the impression that the reason why Siri fails so many people's expectations is that people who work at Apple only give her complements, don't give Siri (or probably Phil also) any complex tasks to do. Further, as Marketing Chief he's choosing to being interviewed by a magazine in India..? Why not NY Times or even a Mac Magazine..?

All these items are signalling one thing- it's time for Phil to consider retirement before Apple starts Rock-And-Rolling to "Crazy Train".

B0Es6EOIAAA2d81.jpg
 
Last edited:
Amen to that! I can't believe after all these years she still screws up the simplest of commands! I and down to simple creating reminders now and half the time those are screwed up! I thought the "server side" interpretations were suppose to get better over time? Almost seems to be getting worse

It's amazing. Just tried

"2018 World Cup" ...... Siri is freaking useless and embarrassing. By the time you try so many different requests to get an answer, you might as well just put the question into google and save time
 
2017 really IS the POGO (Put Out Or Get Out) year for Apple.

A LOT of smoke and mirrors last year and this year and diversionary tactics employed.

Samsung have sold and are outselling the iPhone. Google is winning the AI war. MS winning the laptop war and Apple still having a go with their old iPads. But with tablet sales falling globally and Apple neglecting their original Mac market - 2017 has to be their year to prove they've not gone laz(ier) and actually bring something out that will make them stand out from the competition instead of just charity meals and RED paint schemes. Their shares keep rising despite years of stagnation. Will the name and glory years hold out on that alone? I say not. 2017 - Apple's POGO year. You read it here first.

("Yeah, right. Gerroff!"-MR Ed.)

Spot on. Wrap this comment round a brick and bounce it off Cook's ego.
 
2017 really IS the POGO (Put Out Or Get Out) year for Apple.

A LOT of smoke and mirrors last year and this year and diversionary tactics employed.

Samsung have sold and are outselling the iPhone. Google is winning the AI war. MS winning the laptop war and Apple still having a go with their old iPads. But with tablet sales falling globally and Apple neglecting their original Mac market - 2017 has to be their year to prove they've not gone laz(ier) and actually bring something out that will make them stand out from the competition instead of just charity meals and RED paint schemes. Their shares keep rising despite years of stagnation. Will the name and glory years hold out on that alone? I say not. 2017 - Apple's POGO year. You read it here first.

("Yeah, right. Gerroff!"-MR Ed.)

I understand the temptation to look at life like a sort of a movie with a climactic ending, but it just isn't. This isn't a POGO year any more than the last few years have been. The fact of the matter is that Apple is an absolute cash cow with incredible pricing power, brand affinity, and product distribution. While growth may have slowed, that's in part because growth is harder and harder to come by the bigger you get. With the amount of money they're putting into R&D in many different facets, I have no doubt that they'll be relevant for many more years to come. I think we've been spoiled to think that they need to come out with a game changer every year. That just doesn't happen. Those things are rare. In the meantime, they continue to make incredibly useful and well-designed products that probably billions of people by now depend on.
 
Once Apple ditches their hypocritical privacy policy then Siri might actually be worth more than medial reminders and simple directions.
 
  • Like
Reactions: H2SO4
Apple has a computer in your home; Amazon doesn't.

Apple has a phone in your pocket; Amazon doesn't.

And they all share Siri and iCloud. Amazon doesn't.

Errr..... For the phone, pragmatically they do.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=202064590

an example.

https://www.amazon.com/Moto-Plus-5th-Generation-Lockscreen/dp/B01N6NTIRH


These 'ads supported' phones comes with Alexa preinstalled. Amazon doesn't 'make' the phone, but technically Apple doesn't actually make theirs either. ( designed by Apple, but manufacture no). If just looking at where can invoke the AI app ( Siri / Alexa ) Amazon is getting their AI app out there.

Likewise with their Cloud services ( Amazon Drive , Photos , Music), those also come preinstalled.

You also conveniently leave out tablets where Amazon Fire has a visible chunk of the market.

It is not quite as broad or as deeply rooted ( as in so deep you can't uninstall it), but Amazon is not "out of the game" at all. Apple's advantage here is eroding with every another 1,000 downloads of the Alexa development kit.
 
As an Amazon Associate, MacRumors earns a commission from qualifying purchases made through links in this post.
2017 really IS the POGO (Put Out Or Get Out) year for Apple.

Seriously, where do people come up with this stuff? Put out or get out? So 2017 is the year that makes or break Apple? Really? o_O

Reported $265 billion in the bank and $775 market cap as the single biggest corporation in the world thats worth more than the US government and any and every bank in the US. Apple will outlive us all in these forums (and perhaps even our children and grandchildren). Even if their iPhone business somehow died, they could stay in business just selling accessories and Apple Music memberships alone. :rolleyes:
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: citysnaps
Control of "home" devices should be via app only. Embedded screens just increase cost, energy usage, MTBF, and require you to be physically present wherever the device is. Meanwhile, the iMac, mini, and MP....languish. Oh that's right, Tim says we don't need computers anymore.:(
 
Surface sales (ALL products, not just the Surface Pro) DOWN 26% year over year, to $831 million.

Apple Mac Sales for the SAME PERIOD:$7.244 BEELION. 8 TIMES that of the Surface LINE.

Apple iPad Sales for the SAME PERIOD: $5.33 BEELION. 6 TIMES that of the Surface LINE.

Combined Mac + iPad sales for ONE QUARTER (Q1 2017) : $12.55 BEELION, or FIFTEEN TIMES that of the ENTIRE SURFACE LINE.

Keep in mind that those Surface products are aimed SQUARELY at the Apple products I mentioned. If you have any doubt, just watch the half-dozen or so Surface Pro "I can't do that on my Mac" commercials...

Yeah, Apple's Doomed. Doomed, I tell ya...


Apple isn't doomed, but comparing to Surface is more than a bit of Apples to Oranges comparison. One of Surface's primary purpose is to get MS's hardware partners out of a lazy ruts and focus on "race to bottom" pricing. If MS actually did sell as much as Apple does their hardware partners ( HP , Dell, Lenovo , ASUS, Acer, etc. ) would be having a huge cow ( complaining at more furious pace than any macrumors forum. LOL. ).


MS needs Surface to be profitable to continue to iterate on R&D , but it is very likely relatively healthy at the levels it is at. ( part of Surface's "down 26%" problem is their line up is almost as stale as Apple's. They have another update even coming at end of month. Refreshed gen 7 Pro and Book lines would reverse a healthy chunk of that. ). However, too far past $1B and MS would be eating into the viability of some of their partners. A significant fraction , if not most, of the "down 26%" went to other Windows vendors, so it is still a 'win' for Windows 10 ( and MS ).
 
Seriously, where do people come up with this stuff? Put out or get out? So 2017 is the year that makes or break Apple? Really? o_O

Reported $265 billion in the bank and $775 market cap as the single biggest corporation in the world thats worth more than the US government and any and every bank in the US. Apple will outlive us all in these forums (and perhaps even our children and grandchildren). Even if their iPhone business somehow died, they could stay in business just selling accessories and Apple Music memberships alone. :rolleyes:

I can appreciate your post and I Agree primarily with what you're saying, but, if Apple lost 70% of its net revenue from the fail of an iPhone, they would not be able to likely stay in business. Especially when you would have investors dumping left and right and considering there are other categories that directly supplement to the iPhone, which the Apple Watch and AirPods could not exist without the iPhone (Airpods primarily are used with iPhone). So if the iPhone dies, other products will follow suit. It Would be complete anarchy and chaos across Apple's product line if that were to ever happen.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BruceEBonus
I'm so puzzled by Apple lately. Who wants a smartwatch? Few people. Who wants an interactive smart speaker? Few people.

Who wants good laptops/desktops/a dedicated headphone jack? Many people!
 
  • Like
Reactions: SeattleMoose
Yes, but why wouldn't you do this this on your computer or phone? When I'm looking for train/bus times it's either that I'm planning the next day or getting ready to leave. In either case I'm already at my computer or my iPhone is I'm my pocket. I don't see where an Echo+screen would be more beneficial than a computer in this case -- either one you have to go to the screen. The computer or phone you already have. The Echo+screen is something else to buy. It's very different than the speaker/mic only Echo that you use to bark commands and questions at.

I think Phil isn't so much arguing for a new Alexa-like device with a screen, as he's pointing out the limitations of voice-only devices. The ecosystem is the thing - the Internet of Things.

Despite all the Siri-bashing, a key point is that Apple has a huge head start in this - most people are rarely far from their phones, tablets, or computers, etc. They have displays and audio, so they address a wider range of needs/usage cases. That is extended even farther if they use Apple TV, Home, Watch, and/or Car Play. There will likely be more wearables, in other form factors.

When it comes to voice input, the closer the user is to the microphone, the more accurate the response can be. The more background sound there is, the harder it is to distinguish commands, so a "close mic" is far more useful than a distant one. The same is true for gesture-based input - distant camera has to distinguish command gestures from other forms of movement, so the wider the field of view, the more people (and pets) there are within that field of view, the more challenging it becomes. Direct input (touch screens, keyboards, pointing devices, etc.) is simpler to implement and interpret than gesture-based or voice-based input.

So, the more sensors and i/o (input/output) devices there are distributed around a person's environment, the better. Sensors and i/o devices that travel with the user can be more effective than stationery sensors - fewer may be required. All in all, Apple already has far more of these in play, in far more form factors, than anyone else with an ecosystem. That's Phil's real point, IMO.
 
Is there new information here? iDevices have screens. CarPlay has a screen. ATV4 is connected to a screen. Macs have, or are connected to, a screen.

If there is an allusion to an Apple smart speaker here I don't see it. But if it's buried in there, let Apple make whatever device it thinks we need and we'll see if we need it. As a HomeKit adopter though what I want is a smarter Siri and an Apple version of a low cost Echo Dot I can litter the home with. As of now nothing Schiller says makes me want a video Echo. I have an iPad for that. It also sounds expensive, again no thanks, not what I'm looking for.

Agreed. If I have to literally walk to the device to look at its screen, I might as well grab my iPad or iPhone.

That said, Schiller's comments give insight into how Apple thinks about assistants. They see 2 types of interactions of which one requires visuals.

Apple has a huge advantage over Echo in that regard thanks to the billion iDevices that are already out there. For example, Siri could send visual info such as maps or photos to your iPad, iPhone, Mac, Apple TV and/or Apple Watch.
 
Apple has a huge advantage over Echo in that regard thanks to the billion iDevices that are already out there. For example, Siri could send visual info such as maps or photos to your iPad, iPhone, Mac, Apple TV and/or Apple Watch.

Yes, @mixy mentioned this earlier. Excellent call if it is reliable, it would keep costs down as I imagine Apple device(s) with a screen would be far too expensive verses the competition.
 
Doesn't anyone in Apple realise how bad Siri is?

I would love to be able to use a reliable and functional Siri.

I think the only way to judge Siri is with a large number of microphones in the device, I think the Amazon Dot has 7 microphones.

I find the iPhone google app, if this is the benchmark, to be not that good to be fair.
 
Last edited:
Well of course. How else could Siri show me Some Results I Found On The Web because she is a brain damaged retard and can't do anything besides Bing searches?

Alexa stands on her own.

Siri will need to be supported by a big (expensive) screen or she'll fall down. I'm feeling a thick $499 iPad with a big speaker coming on here lol!

So you can see the future? You're more creative in designing new devices? You've seen the new device? I think it would be best if everyone limit their snide comments until we see what Apple will do. I wouldn't count them out. Maybe they see something Google or Amazon doesn't. Perhaps, with their acquisition of new AI talent, they've got something new to bring to the table.
Personally I get great results with Siri.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.