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People leave their laptops covers open while doing other things in the room. They can't be expected to keep looking at it to make sure the light doesn't come on. I use a thin piece of blue masking tape that won't leave residue behind, and I colored it black with a Sharpie. I have no issues on my 2013, but is tape too thick, and will tape cause breakage, on newer MacBooks?
 
People leave their laptops covers open while doing other things in the room. They can't be expected to keep looking at it to make sure the light doesn't come on. I use a thin piece of blue masking tape that won't leave residue behind, and I colored it black with a Sharpie. I have no issues on my 2013, but is tape too thick, and will tape cause breakage, on newer MacBooks?
no you can't, integrated unit. and, Seriously?
 
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I think it is funny to see how polarizing it is to cover a camera!

People who are against covering cameras are also the ones who give away everything, to whomever, and just believe the world is this big fluffy magical place. And they download every "free" app anyone asks them to download. Its all so exciting! People are so into.free apps that it is a challenge to find paid apps...and everyone should know that nothing is free.

People who cover their cameras are aware of all the schemes to get data from users, amongst other schemes, and are reluctant to install free apps from unknown creators. They know that there are always "bad actors" coming up with schemes.

Funny story about how my company recommended that everyone download a certain popular free productivity app. Then there was the "oh my god the servers just crashed" moment that happened, due to some malware. Shortly thereafter, everyone was told to immediately delete that particular app, because it is full of trojans and could crash our servers. And btw, maybe we should ask our IT dept before we recommend an app again.

So yeah, IT people will have PTSD from reading this thread. Just sayin....
Well, maybe people fall into these neat categories, but maybe not.

I think (because I can't know with certainty) that a fair number of people are concerned about cameras spying on them but are not necessarily concerned about data security. Different people are concerned about different risks. The idea that someone may be looking through your window (fear of "Peeping Toms") long pre-dates webcams. Stories like this feed that particular concern.

There are probably huge numbers of people who fear cyber-snooping who have absolutely no concept of technology. They read clickbait and fall for it hook, line, and sinker. So I wouldn't assume that people exhibiting "concerned" behaviors are automatically knowledgable.

In my experience there are many people who believe that "hacking" means a person (or more than one person) is actively watching what they do - someone sitting at a computer all day long, watching what happens on their computer screens (and/or their webcams). Every instance of something unexpected happening while they use their computer is evidence that someone is reaching into their computer and controlling it. As if some anonymous member of the masses is of such interest to someone else that full-time surveillance/interference is a reasonable expectation.

Overall, which is the greater risk to security, a rogue app that opens your webcam, or a rogue app that searches your HD for useful data?

Even if done in an automated fashion, those surreptitious still photos or video clips would have to be analyzed for their content - that takes a whole lot of computing power and even afterwards would require human intervention to be sure of what was captured. On the other hand, automated analysis of text-based data is child's play. So, which risk ought people to be most concerned about?

As far as "cybersecurity experts" blocking their webcams? It can be proof of bowing to their social/business environment, rather than a careful assessment of the current risk. Management is going to mandate an excess of caution, "Just in case." Taping over a camera is an easy way to demonstrate your awareness of potential risks.

There's always going to be a cat-and-mouse game when it comes to security flaws. Flaws are uncovered, flaws are patched. Using a 5-year-old (or older incident) to prove something is possible today is pointless. The past is the past, unless you're using older hardware and older software that still possesses that flaw.

As far as I'm concerned, the only significant risk of an uncovered camera (for those whose profession does not make them an active espionage target) is the user accidentally opening the camera - placing a FaceTime video call instead opening an iMessage chat, or entering a video conference and enabling (rather than disabling) their personal video. In my experience, all "modern" video conferencing apps (Zoom, etc.) default to camera-off when someone joins the conference. But accidents do happen, and with so much more video conferencing going on these days, the odds of such an accident happening have gone up. Still, "Turn off your microphone when you're not speaking" is by far the bigger problem in the conferences I attend.

And for the person who mentioned that he attended a briefing at a company whose name begins with an "A" and had his smartphone cameras taped-over by company representatives... they weren't worried about spyware operating those cameras, they were worried about the attendees themselves taking photos.
 
I don’t care about people watching me although I do have some ObjectiveSer software installed that ought to warn me whenever some software access my cam.
A collegue just put some cover on the camera of his 16” MBP and broke the screen the same day. It got repaired for free as the outer glass shield wasn’t broken while the lcd was. The explanation given by Apple is the same as the one I read here. But this was back in january.
 
No it’s not. Here’s the definition of a Straw Man:

By exaggerating, misrepresenting, or just completely fabricating someone's argument, it’s much easier to present your own position as being reasonable.

I didn’t exaggerate or misrepresented anyone’s argument. I simply pointed out that anyone who thinks that covering up a webcam helps in their security but then ignores the dozen or so, potentially far bigger, elephants in the room, is fooling themselves.

People seem to focus on webcams but are oblivious to the other, potentially far bigger risks.


Quoting a Quizlet "definition" - which is more of a paraphrase, really, than an actual definition - doesn't support your statement. But as long as paraphrasing is ok, here's a better "definition" of straw man:

"Building a false case, ostensibly from the opposing side, based on imagined facts or hyperbole, solely for the purpose of shooting down that invented case and thereby damaging that side."

Rather than debate the merits of camera blockers, you've set up an imagined case that everyone who uses camera blockers is obvious to every other privacy risk in life, and used that to shoot those people down.

I personally don't understand why people can't make their case and go on, without personal attacks. To make the omniscient statement that everyone who cares about cam privacy is oblivious to the other concerns on your list is simply lazy. But if you personally know of people who care nothing about privacy unless it concerns cams, then by all means point out those specific cases, and maybe if you want to signal your own virtue, you can mock them and pray other people don't fall into that trap.

Then we can all move on.
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Because it's just not true.


Agreed.

What is healthier - skepticism or blind faith in a company's word?
 
The cybersecurity "experts" at our work did that and I pointed out to them that it's a insignificant risk compared to microphones and KVM hacking. Anybody walking by an window could get the same view as the webcam, but we don't block windows. If you take your clothes off in your office, you got bigger problems.

On the other hand, they were deploying obsolete VOIP phones that were accessible from the desktop LAN with known flaws where you could listen in without any indication.

Webcam covers are mostly security theater.
Makes people feel important, I'd imagine.
 
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Quoting a Quizlet "definition" - which is more of a paraphrase, really, than an actual definition - doesn't support your statement. But as long as paraphrasing is ok, here's a better "definition" of straw man:

"Building a false case, ostensibly from the opposing side, based on imagined facts or hyperbole, solely for the purpose of shooting down that invented case and thereby damaging that side."

Rather than debate the merits of camera blockers, you've set up an imagined case that everyone who uses camera blockers is obvious to every other privacy risk in life, and used that to shoot those people down.

I personally don't understand why people can't make their case and go on, without personal attacks. To make the omniscient statement that everyone who cares about cam privacy is oblivious to the other concerns on your list is simply lazy. But if you personally know of people who care nothing about privacy unless it concerns cams, then by all means point out those specific cases, and maybe if you want to signal your own virtue, you can mock them and pray other people don't fall into that trap.

Then we can all move on.
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Agreed.

What is healthier - skepticism or blind faith in a company's word?

I’m pointing out the futility of it all if that’s all people do.

Blocking laptop camera’s whilst still leaving all the other avenues exposed is privacy theater.

You seem to think it’s a straw man argument with me pointing out all the other risks: it’s not, no matter how much you want it to be.

Your argument is that if someone says that they always keep their Windows locked tight with unbreakable bolts, you can’t point out the futility of all that if they always leave the front door unlocked 24/7.

You not wanting to understand all this is your problem.
 
"Covering the built-in camera might also interfere with the ambient light sensor and prevent features like automatic brightness and True Tone from working". If that is true, then imagery can be read from the camera without the green light being on. All a hacker need do is send that imagery to themselves, and your camera is being used to spy on you without you knowing.
 
As they said in the article the camera cannot be activated without the green indicator light being turned on and macOS gives you complete control over when and where your camera and microphones are used. So what's the point in that?
But that’s not exactly true.. they ARE hackable via firmware. It’s not a hardware based system or truly impenetrable. Their microphones have had a similar level of protection for years yet in the 2020 iPad Pro Apple felt the need to up the security by adding that internal hardware disconnect
 
Harro new here. So maybe is just me but why are people scared of someone "hacking" your webcam? Most of us already post tons of pictures online and are ok with that. If you don't do anything "illegal" on your computer why would someone wanna see a random person? I always say: If someone Hanks mine, they'll be for a rude awaking! 🤣😅
 
Maybe Apple should include a privacy cover then? They claim to be privacy focused but ironically leave their cameras completely exposed.

Cameras and your privacy are protected by the T2 chip on modern Macs. It prevents the camera being used without the green light shining next to it - so even if some software somehow managed to gain control of the camera, you’d know it’s running. So, yeah, they are very privacy focused.
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"Paranoid"... former FBI Director covers up his webcam, why is that ya think?

He could very well be paranoid (FBI directors also saw communist conspiracies everywhere not so long ago). But most likely he was giving general advice to people using all kinds of laptops - he wasn’t talking about Macs with cameras that are protected with secure hardware enclaves. It’s possible there are some laptops out there where this may not be such crazy advice.

Also - one question for all you tapers out there - do you tape front facing cameras on your phones, too? How about their microphones? How about microphones on your TVs? Of all the devices in our lives, a Mac with a camera shouldn’t be your top concern, really.
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The cybersecurity "experts" at our work did that and I pointed out to them that it's a insignificant risk compared to microphones and KVM hacking. Anybody walking by an window could get the same view as the webcam, but we don't block windows. If you take your clothes off in your office, you got bigger problems.

On the other hand, they were deploying obsolete VOIP phones that were accessible from the desktop LAN with known flaws where you could listen in without any indication.

Webcam covers are mostly security theater.

Yeah, ”security theater” is the perfect way to describe it.
 
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So because he is a former FBI makes him less paranoid than anyone else? people's cameras don't just get hacked out of the blue.

Because he's a former FBI agent that's what probably makes him more paranoid than most, and whether or not that's founded in reality full stop is up to question (no ones infallible).
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I don’t think you are following. This is possible right now on a T2 Mac with everything working properly and no hacks.

App takes still photo. Light does turn on but not for very long. How long does light stay on to take a still photo? Would you notice it?

arn


Totally not the point, no one remotely can do it. Why would you ever worry about what you take on your computer for a selfie? It's you doing it, and it's you're privacy in question in the first place.

Loopy argument.
 
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It's because the screens are so thin they aren't very durable. I had one crack just by lightly closing it when a mouse cable was under it and I didn't know. I didn't even press down hard on it, just a slow close and noticed it the next day.

I wish they made their devices a little thicker and stronger. Instead they make them all "bendy" and thin as possible.
 
"Covering the built-in camera might also interfere with the ambient light sensor and prevent features like automatic brightness and True Tone from working". If that is true, then imagery can be read from the camera without the green light being on. All a hacker need do is send that imagery to themselves, and your camera is being used to spy on you without you knowing.

The ambient light sensor is separate from the camera - they’re located directly next to each other.

So your fear over this is totally unfounded.
 
This reminds me of some threads about a decade ago when people were saying (and posting online) pics of their phone (I'm guessing an iphone 4) taking pics and the user finding out later when looking in the camera roll. The scenario I remember was someone putting their phone in their cup holder in the car and then finding pics of them driving and holding the wheel...
seemed odd at the time, and I remember thinking that it should have gained more traction than it did. But it seemed like it died down and nothing more was said. I was keeping up with Apple news a lot more than I do now (worked at an Apple Store around that time), so I would have noticed if the story blew up but I dont remember it getting much attention.

My 2 cents: I dont cover any cameras (and I have a camera in my office that my wife and another person can log in to--bought it after a seizure-like experience in 2018 so my wife could check on my and make sure I was ok since I am often in my office alone about 10 miles from home)... that being said, after reading Edward Snowden's book (especially chapter 25 that I posted a screenshot of earlier in this thread) I wouldnt rule out the right people can activate anything they want to. I doubt I'd ever be on anyone's radar in a million years, but if I had a reason to believe what my camera saw was high level security stuff (like following my eyes when putting in passwords) then the last thing I'd trust is a little green light.

And after dealing with a well-known software company recently and trying to tell them about a major password/encryption bug I found only to come to no resolution and getting ignored, I wouldn't assume the security divisions of companies are perfect (or in my case even willing to listen).
 
Isn't TrueTone sensor on newer Macbook Pro's *next* to the iSight? There would be ways to not cover both of them up...Perhaps Apple is just being cautious..

I can understand a camera cover (that big) will impact, but it doesn't have to be. What about the other way ?
 
Y’all cover up your camera, but probably have your microphone enabled Lol. Funny.
If it was possible to remove the mic without damaging other stuff, I’d do that.

People think it's a malware issue. But that's only one part.

Many people simply don't like a camera lens staring at them, even if it's their own, disconnected or out of film, and turned off.
Exactly. I wish my computer didn’t have a camera. But that’s not an option, so I disable it. I use tape though so should be fine.
 
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