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In fact, it would be a huge security issue for those who work in very sensitive job positions in the military, private sectors, government, etc.
This point is not empahasized enough in the Apple Watch camera debate. And it's not just military and corporate secrecy, but the broader issue of intrusiveness in general public life. AW wearers may end up looking like creeps who might always have their cameras trained on others. Remember the reaction to Google Glass wearers. All of a sudden, a beautiful tool on your wrist is turned into a liability which you have to remove to go in locker rooms, concerts - - police end up seizing them, thinking you're collecting evidence against them, etc.

If a camera is ever added to the Apple Watch, I hope they make it an option - - a highly distinctive visible option, so that those of us who want to remain unharrassed can wear the non-camera model.
 
"The Apple Watch 2 won't include cellular connectivity as Apple haven't been able to resolve battery life concerns"

I can't help but think that Apple under Steve Jobs would have found a way to solve that problem, seeing as it would drastically enhance the product.
 
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This point is not empahasized enough in the Apple Watch camera debate. And it's not just military and corporate secrecy, but the broader issue of intrusiveness in general public life. AW wearers may end up looking like creeps who might always have their cameras trained on others. Remember the reaction to Google Glass wearers. All of a sudden, a beautiful tool on your wrist is turned into a liability which you have to remove to go in locker rooms, concerts - - police end up seizing them, thinking you're collecting evidence against them, etc.

If a camera is ever added to the Apple Watch, I hope they make it an option - - a highly distinctive visible option, so that those of us who want to remain unharrassed can wear the non-camera model.

Yes, the issue of privacy is what's concerning in regards to the camera. Even in public. I remember a story several years ago how a guy got busted for taking pictures of young women using his iPhone underneath their skirts by standing close to them. But with a Watch, it's a lot more discreet but can be grounds for stalking, or worse, charges of espionage if you end up getting caught in a country with ironclad laws such as the middle east or North Korea.

The reaction to Google Glass is exactly why the camera in the Apple Watch will make people paranoid. And you're right, a liability.

Having a camera will still be a drain to the battery and I don't think the screen size is appropriate for that. I don't mind using the camera on the phone because it's far easier to manage the shot and make edits there. The quality would be far better than what you would see on the Watch, if they ever put it in there. Also, flash storage is a concern especially when taking a large scale image. If I'm not mistaken, the iphone takes photos in the maximum resolution by default. Worse, without wifi, the user cannot store the photos from the Watch to the Cloud.

It wouldn't surprise me if businesses or establishments will start putting strict regulations on watches that have cameras built in, or outright ban them. Same thing when it comes to schools, students may be asked to leave their smartwatches behind ( for good reason ).

Simply put, adding a camera in a smart watch raises privacy and ethical concerns.
 
Yes, and on a computer as well, but have you ever heard about "convenience"?

You could put a web browser on a smartwatch for "convenience", but that doesn't mean it's a good idea. The best products are the ones that know what they are. What things does the Apple Watch do well? Fitness and notifications. So why not just make a standalone product that handles those two features and leave out all the gimped smartphone features?
 
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"unethical or illegal" - same issues with the phone but solved[/SIZE][/FONT]

I haven't read every single post in this thread so maybe I missed it, but how has the ethical/legal issues with taking clandestine pictures been solved?
 
This point is not empahasized enough in the Apple Watch camera debate. And it's not just military and corporate secrecy, but the broader issue of intrusiveness in general public life. AW wearers may end up looking like creeps who might always have their cameras trained on others. Remember the reaction to Google Glass wearers. All of a sudden, a beautiful tool on your wrist is turned into a liability which you have to remove to go in locker rooms, concerts - - police end up seizing them, thinking you're collecting evidence against them, etc.

If a camera is ever added to the Apple Watch, I hope they make it an option - - a highly distinctive visible option, so that those of us who want to remain unharrassed can wear the non-camera model.

As I've pointed out many times to you, a front facing FaceTime camera is going to be far more obvious taking a picture than an iPhone, but you continue to ignore it to press your paranoid agenda. The world is full of cameras looking at you all the time. You should probably get used to it. Just like when you see someone with a phone in the bathroom, you should take note of their wrist wear, because there are already smartwatches on the market now that have cameras in them, and so far I haven't seen any public outcry over them, or in fact any news stories about them -- unlike I have for iPhones lately.

SHOT ON AN IPHONE:

http://www.tmz.com/2016/07/14/dani-mathers-gym-pic-photo-police-report/


Yes, the issue of privacy is what's concerning in regards to the camera. Even in public. I remember a story several years ago how a guy got busted for taking pictures of young women using his iPhone underneath their skirts by standing close to them. But with a Watch, it's a lot more discreet but can be grounds for stalking, or worse, charges of espionage if you end up getting caught in a country with ironclad laws such as the middle east or North Korea.

The reaction to Google Glass is exactly why the camera in the Apple Watch will make people paranoid. And you're right, a liability.

Having a camera will still be a drain to the battery and I don't think the screen size is appropriate for that. I don't mind using the camera on the phone because it's far easier to manage the shot and make edits there. The quality would be far better than what you would see on the Watch, if they ever put it in there. Also, flash storage is a concern especially when taking a large scale image. If I'm not mistaken, the iphone takes photos in the maximum resolution by default. Worse, without wifi, the user cannot store the photos from the Watch to the Cloud.

It wouldn't surprise me if businesses or establishments will start putting strict regulations on watches that have cameras built in, or outright ban them. Same thing when it comes to schools, students may be asked to leave their smartwatches behind ( for good reason ).

Simply put, adding a camera in a smart watch raises privacy and ethical concerns.

Way to fearmonger. And, place your values and needs above others. How can you seriously claim a camera would be a power liability when Apple actively promotes taking and making phone calls on the watch which will drain the battery in less than 3 hours with continuous use? And you're seriously equating the usefulness of a camera with the ability to edit the photos it takes, such that a camera on a watch would be useless without it? And again, you seriously think that photos taken on a watch won't be optimized by software, and initially constrained by the technology? They won't be putting a 12mp camera in there!

And please do explain why only a camera would make schools ban start watches? You do realize that smart watches can be used to send text messages, carrying on private conversations during class (you remember passing notes the teacher would intercept?) and with answers to exams, both of which are probably a far bigger problem in schools than taking a selfie with a friend during lunch, or the unlikely fear of someone sticking their arm underneath a bathroom stall to snap a quick photo of the occupant.

I'd suggest you too get used to the world you're living in, and stop trying to constrain the technology that others might find some benefit for using, especially since your biggest fear is already alive and well and being abused on the ubiquitous smartphone:

SHOT ON AN IPHONE:

http://www.tmz.com/2016/07/14/dani-mathers-gym-pic-photo-police-report/
 
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Glad I went ahead and grabbed the first gen open box and heavily discounted in January, even though there were rumors that the new one was coming within a couple months. Don't see anything here that would make me feel compelled to upgrade. I always have my phone on me and the watch is still dependent on the phone (which I was always ok with anyway since I don't intend to pay for another cellular plan) so I don't see the independent GPS as anything more than battery suckage. The one oddball variable is the barometer... wondering what that'll be used for. Still no new health sensors or "heart attack detector" like the original Watch was rumored to come with so I'm happy holding on to my Gen 1 until a future version that is truly a major upgrade.
 
You could put a web browser on a smartwatch for "convenience", but that doesn't mean it's a good idea. The best products are the ones that know what they are. What things does the Apple Watch do well? Fitness and notifications. So why not just make a standalone product that handles those two features and leave out all the gimped smartphone features?
I wouldn't even say it does fitness well (currently).
 
Glad I went ahead and grabbed the first gen open box and heavily discounted in January, even though there were rumors that the new one was coming within a couple months. Don't see anything here that would make me feel compelled to upgrade. I always have my phone on me and the watch is still dependent on the phone (which I was always ok with anyway since I don't intend to pay for another cellular plan) so I don't see the independent GPS as anything more than battery suckage. The one oddball variable is the barometer... wondering what that'll be used for. Still no new health sensors or "heart attack detector" like the original Watch was rumored to come with so I'm happy holding on to my Gen 1 until a future version that is truly a major upgrade.

Well I would say that if the watch a cellular radio, you'd have the option to turn it off, just as you can now on the iPhone, just as I do when I know I'm in an area with poor cellular reception, subject to greater battery drain. Then I can turn it in when I want to check messages only.

I think most people would be very happy to have a cellular option they could turn on in an emergency situation -- such as jogging without your phone, and breaking your ankle on a mountain trail (or even going out of range of the phone to get the mail at the end of the driveway). Using the SOS feature would turn on the cellular radio automatically so a person wouldn't have to worry about doing that. And again GPS would also be useful in that situation, as well as helping the runner find their way in the first place. My understanding is that cellular helps lock the GPS signal faster, thereby improving battery life, and of course could also be activated automatically as needed.

GPS would also be helpful if visiting a city and a person accidentally leaves their phone in the taxi, and needs to find their way. Or if they just want to go down to find the nearest Starbucks and leave their wallet or purse in their hotel room. The watch is about making life more convenient. While it's not ideal for everything a person might want to do, having to locate and carry their phone everytime they want to travel outside the operable range of the phone isn't very convenient. And again, the belief that GPS was left off the first gen watch because it uses to much battery is also mitigated by the fact you don't use it when you don't need it. You might never need it, but it's nice to have when you do.

The barometer will help you track your fitness going up and down stairs, as well as give you exact elevation when used with GPS. It might even be able to help determine whether you are standing or sitting, so those fitness reminders might be more effective.

So all I would say is that until there's a "heart attack detector" which seems to concern you, having optional cellular independence from the iPhone might actually be the next best thing should you have a heart attack. Let's say you get to your office and need to run back up to the meeting room to get your notebook you forgot, so you leave your iPhone in your office and run back up the stairwell to the second floor meeting room, which is out of range of your phone. As you climb the stairs the barometer senses you are ascending, and the step counter determines you are doing it quickly, then the heart rate sensor kicks in providing feedback based on that data. You notice your heart rate is climbing high, and after you reach the second floor, you go into cardiac arrest. Nobody's around because the meeting's over. But because you have a watch with a cellular radio and GPS, and a barometer, you are able to call 911 by pushing a single button before you pass out, and the EMTs know exactly where you are -- possibly even with your vital stats transmitted during the 911 call -- and arrive in time to save your life.
 
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As I've pointed out many times to you, a front facing FaceTime camera is going to be far more obvious taking a picture than an iPhone, but you continue to ignore it to press your paranoid agenda.
I don't recall having any previous discussion of this topic with you.

The world is full of cameras looking at you all the time. You should probably get used to it. Just like when you see someone with a phone in the bathroom, you should take note of their wrist wear, because there are already smartwatches on the market now that have cameras in them
Agreed. That is why I suggested any Apple Watch camera should be optional and highly visible to those around them:
If a camera is ever added to the Apple Watch, I hope they make it an option - - a highly distinctive visible option, so that those of us who want to remain unharrassed can wear the non-camera model.
 
GPS needs a map to use for directions.

Maps are either pre-loaded or they are downloaded via internet connection.
AW does not have its own internet connection and is unlikely to come with a map pre-loaded.

Buy a navigation GPS.
Maybe you could download a certain area using the Watch iPhone app.
 
"The Apple Watch 2 won't include cellular connectivity as Apple haven't been able to resolve battery life concerns"

I can't help but think that Apple under Steve Jobs would have found a way to solve that problem, seeing as it would drastically enhance the product.
Apple under Steve jobs gave us the first iPhone with edge instead of 3G because the technology didn't exist yet to kept the battery life where it needed to be. The second generation model was quite literally the same phone with the 3G radio and in a plastic shell.

Apple is at the mercy of wireless radio designers and manufacturers when t comes to these things.
 
I'm late to this particular post, but what the hell, the Apple Watch fiasco is beyond interesting to me.

This gimmicky, silly, niche product epitomizes Apple's issues. There never was a need for it. Watches just became the new thing to do a couple years ago, so Apple, having nothing else in the pipeline apparently, decided to jump in as well. They made an ugly, laughable, over-priced gadget that was retro-grade compared to existing products.
Too heavy, compromised in every direction...how this ever existed is still just incredible.

It's a watch that doesn't have power to display the time at all times. It needs to be plugged in to recharge every day or two. It lacks GPS, making it unsuitable for tracking routes. It's too thick (funny considering all the other compromises). How could this have been any worse? It's a turd.

Now, two years later, we're going to finally get a product that has caught up with the Garmin's of the world. My 2007 Forerunner 205 was much larger, but hell it only cost 200 and I could actually track a run with it...9 years ago. This isn't a completely Apples to Apples comparison, so I'm being a little unfair, but seriously Apple needed to have GPS before they sold this thing. It's amazing they got away selling any of them. People really will buy anything if the branding and promotion is right.

I'll give them credit for making a very dependable smart phone, but my current 6S, aside from being a bit larger and taking better quality photos and video than I need, how it really isn't much better than my iPhone 3GS from 2009. They did innovate with the iPad, I suppose (and I **** all over that when it came out for being too expensive, but nonetheless it was at least innovative), but what since then? It's hard to believe a company with so many talented people could do get so stuck in a rut, but the Apple Watch is exhibit A for how stagnation has taken over Apple.

I hope with declining iPhone sales they finally get it turned around, but I've yet to see any indication anything is different.
 
Not to unfairly single you out, as you are one of many who state your list of demands for the new watch in the shadow of withholding your purchase of an upgrade, but:

By many accounts the Watch sold somewhere between 10-15 million for the year. Now certainly Apple needs your upgrade purchase, but what they need is more first time buyers. Unless Apple built the watch for the same 10 million customers to upgrade every year, there's a potential 500 million plus customers out there using compatible iPhones who haven't bought the thing yet. Apple doesn't need 10 million existing customers to buy the new model again. They need 50 million NEW customers to buy the Watch when they buy their new iPhone, and whatever drives those sales is the priority for Apple. Whether you upgrade or not is not really Apple's problem right now, because if they're counting on your upgrade for success, then the Watch is a failure.



While that's a personal opinion, as style is objective, I do agree that the design makes the watch look fatter than it is. The rounded sides give the illusion of being thicker than it is, and kind of pudgy. Most watches are rounded on the top, but the designs usually blend into the wrist like a donut. Apple's appears to float on top of the wrist. And that's what makes it look fat.

Practically speaking it's not thicker than a lot of watches, in fact it's thinner than most.
Just giving my opinion. If the thing lags to crap when you use it, then don't expect people like me to evangelize it. Because people do ask me all the time how I like it (unlike the iPhone, it's prominently displayed on my wrist at all times), and I am directly responsible for moving everyone in my family and most of my extended family to a Apple over the past 10 years, as well as many friends and some coworkers. I've spent time helping them transition and setup their devices. It needs to work well first and then bolt on frivolous marketing bullet point features later.
 
"The Apple Watch 2 won't include cellular connectivity as Apple haven't been able to resolve battery life concerns"

I can't help but think that Apple under Steve Jobs would have found a way to solve that problem, seeing as it would drastically enhance the product.

You have to play within the bounds of the laws of physics. Advancements in battery technology are notoriously difficult. It's not just an Apple problem.
 
Just giving my opinion. If the thing lags to crap when you use it, then don't expect people like me to evangelize it. Because people do ask me all the time how I like it (unlike the iPhone, it's prominently displayed on my wrist at all times), and I am directly responsible for moving everyone in my family and most of my extended family to a Apple over the past 10 years, as well as many friends and some coworkers. I've spent time helping them transition and setup their devices. It needs to work well first and then bolt on frivolous marketing bullet point features later.

From all appearances, Apple was late to market with the watch and plagued with software issues. This is made even more evident by the fact that watchOS 3 appears to significantly speed up the original Watch.

That hurts Apple far more than anything else, and they shouldn't have done it. It seems like they really rushed it to market and then quickly got it into discount retailers in time for Christmas to increase sales, despite its obvious faults.

That's one of the reasons I think they introduced the SE. They couldn't keep selling 3 year old technology as the entry level phone and compete with Android phones priced for half as much, that work twice as fast.

Apple really should have held back on the Watch and rolled out features slowly as they usually do. When it came out I felt they tried to do too much and had many more features than I was expecting, essentially giving them little room to upgrade. Until the OS was quicker, they really should have limited 3rd party developer apps, or withheld the watch from market. Seems like they felt like they had to release the watch to make Wall Street happy.

You have to play within the bounds of the laws of physics. Advancements in battery technology are notoriously difficult. It's not just an Apple problem.

Battery life is a function of use. Apple included an incredibly draining technology in the watch in the form of making and taking calls which will deplete the watch in less then 3 hours of continuous use. I'm still flared they allowed that feature, which is the main argument against power being the main consideration for cellular and GPS. Both of those technologies do not have to be on all the time. At some point the customer has to take responsibility for their use and abuse of available technologies, as I'm sure the guy who went around making phone calls on his watch the first couple of days he had it.
 
From all appearances, Apple was late to market with the watch and plagued with software issues. This is made even more evident by the fact that watchOS 3 appears to significantly speed up the original Watch.

That hurts Apple far more than anything else, and they shouldn't have done it. It seems like they really rushed it to market and then quickly got it into discount retailers in time for Christmas to increase sales, despite its obvious faults.

That's one of the reasons I think they introduced the SE. They couldn't keep selling 3 year old technology as the entry level phone and compete with Android phones priced for half as much, that work twice as fast.

Apple really should have held back on the Watch and rolled out features slowly as they usually do. When it came out I felt they tried to do too much and had many more features than I was expecting, essentially giving them little room to upgrade. Until the OS was quicker, they really should have limited 3rd party developer apps, or withheld the watch from market. Seems like they felt like they had to release the watch to make Wall Street happy.

It's true. I was also impressed with how much it could do at launch. But that was soon tempered by how they messed up some of the basic things that it can do through the way they implemented app loading. The watchOS 2 update helped quite a bit, but it's still pretty slow. It's bad when you roll out a massive overhaul that makes everything much faster and it still manages to feel slow. I'm hopeful that watchOS 3 will do even more to speed things up, but I don't think it's going to be magic like some people think it will be. The real benefits will be seen on the new hardware, and that's exactly what they need to do—make it faster and run smoother. I think you're right about them needing to start smaller, but the problem is the sales would have suffered even more out of the gate. Apple's in a tough position because they can't just start out with a small launch with reduced feature set like the original iPhone or everyone will declare the new device to be a huge failure—even if they planned it that way with a steady roadmap of solid upgrades like the iPhone received.
 
Sounds more like a 1.5 release. Why won't they fix the big three issues?

One week battery life
Always on display
Make it thin


You can't make it last longer by putting a smaller battery in it, you can't make it last longer by having the screen on all the time...
 
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Steve Jobs this, Steve jobs that, this would never have happened under Steve Jobs, etc, etc.

When will such yawn-some and supercilious comments end, I wonder?
 
Apple should never put a camera on the watch. Ever. If they do that, it will destroy the purpose and design of the Watch and the iPhone, not only that but drain the battery very quickly. The watch is designed to notify, NOT distract or make video calls ( or take photos one which would be very unethical or illegal in sensitive job sectors ). You want to gab via video? Do that on the iPhone or Droid. You want to snap photos? Do that on the iPhone or dedicated camera.

Pebble had the right idea with out the feature creep and app overload. Plus, one of their new watches lasts at least a week or two which is far BETTER than a 12-14 hour battery length on Apple Watch.
FYI
Update

Apple watch is rumoured to be coming with an inbuilt camera. Third parties are already on the way to developing their own as well. And while a tad chunky, they aren't poorly designed.

http://getcmra.com

Live_on_Glide_with_CMRA.jpg
 
Problem is too many people stuck in the framework of what they see and what the marketing dept told them. "Watch" is just an analogy - and bridge - to help them explain and sell the device to you, based on its current capabilities and limitations.

But in the end, the watch will eventually replace the iphone, with much of the basic functionality, just scaled down. Including of course the camera. No, it aint destined to be just a glorified pedometer or buzzer. Apple does not get into a product area like this and invest in all the chip minaturizaiton etc, just to complete with Fitbit or something.
 
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