Apple Watch 4 versus Apple Watch 5 versus Garmin Fenix 5

[ozone]

I currently have an AW4, and have used AW2 before (skipped AW3). It's been a regular wearable for me the last few years but sometimes, the activity (calories) seems a bit unusual (too high/too low) compared to perceived effort. Also, I wish there was a better way to measure activities like weight lifting, martial arts exercises, or general callisthenics, but that might not be specific to Apple Watches.

My AW4 is starting to look a little worse for wear. The AW2 dropped on the floor and the screen shattered. As a precaution, I bought a bumper case on Amazon for the replacement AW4. It mostly works, but only offers partial protection, it traps debris, and of course, isn't terribly aesthetic compared to the AW by itself.

Also, I've noticed lately that flicking/turning my wrist does not activate the watch face as quickly as it used to: sometimes I have to free up the other hand to press the watch to see the time.

I saw a Garmin Fenix 5 on sale. I've considered Garmin before. I know I would lose some functionality (e.g., voice replies to texts) but I would gain in durability and overall toughness, battery life, and more activity based measurements (I do a lot of stairs and supposedly the Fenix can assess flights climbed). I'm generally careful with my gear, but my watch gets exposed to a lot. And the Garmin would be always on.

However, I know the AW5 is always on too. Not sure if it's any more durable than previous generations.

Anybody use a non-Apple smartwatch like the Garmin Fenix and later loved it or regretted it in the Apple ecosystem? Would AW5 instead be a noticeable improvement in my above scenarios?

 

[James.K.Polk]

I have a Garmin Forerunner 245 up in the Marketplace, if you want something a little newer than the Fenix 5. That out of the way, I'd look at a Fenix 5+ or 6 over the 5; the battery life on the 5 was mediocre compared to more recent models (obviously still considerably better than the Apple Watch, but 3-4 days with GPS use) and it had frequent ANT+ drops if you use it for anything paired. Garmin 6 is the newest model and has a larger screen (really shrunken bezel) but it also is quite expensive, especially when they upcharge for Wifi and then again for sapphire.

I've owned every Apple Watch, as well as the Forerunner 230, 235, 245, 645, and Fenix 5, 5S, 5S+. There is no true winner. Apple Watch is definitely an all-day useful watch, but is not half as good for running and serious exercise as either a Forerunner or Fenix.

One last idea - Garmin Venu has an OLED screen - maybe a decent hybrid? But one I have not yet tried.

 

[ozone]

I have a Garmin Forerunner 245 up in the Marketplace, if you want something a little newer than the Fenix 5. That out of the way, I'd look at a Fenix 5+ or 6 over the 5; the battery life on the 5 was mediocre compared to more recent models (obviously still considerably better than the Apple Watch, but 3-4 days with GPS use) and it had frequent ANT+ drops if you use it for anything paired. Garmin 6 is the newest model and has a larger screen (really shrunken bezel) but it also is quite expensive, especially when they upcharge for Wifi and then again for sapphire.

I've owned every Apple Watch, as well as the Forerunner 230, 235, 245, 645, and Fenix 5, 5S, 5S+. There is no true winner. Apple Watch is definitely an all-day useful watch, but is not half as good for running and serious exercise as either a Forerunner or Fenix.

One last idea - Garmin Venu has an OLED screen - maybe a decent hybrid? But one I have not yet tried.

I should have specified... the model I'm looking at is actually the Garmin Fenix 5X Sapphire. Not sure if there is that much difference? I find Garmin's model nomenclature a bit confusing.

 

[James.K.Polk]

I should have specified... the model I'm looking at is actually the Garmin Fenix 5X Sapphire. Not sure if there is that much difference? I find Garmin's model nomenclature a bit confusing.

Garmin's Fenix line is S, _, and X in size order (i.e. the model without a modifier is the "standard"). The 5X came out in 2017, the + line in 2018, and the 6 in 2019. I haven't heard much about a 6+/7 coming out this year (though it may).

5X Sapphire is the only model of 5X there is - it's also massive. 51mm? That may work for you - just my takeaway from it. I understand it to have better battery life than the Fenix 5 or 5S, but still lagging behind 5X+ and 6X.

 

[ozone]

Garmin's Fenix line is S, _, and X in size order (i.e. the model without a modifier is the "standard"). The 5X came out in 2017, the + line in 2018, and the 6 in 2019. I haven't heard much about a 6+/7 coming out this year (though it may).

5X Sapphire is the only model of 5X there is - it's also massive. 51mm? That may work for you - just my takeaway from it. I understand it to have better battery life than the Fenix 5 or 5S, but still lagging behind 5X+ and 6X.

Thanks! That explains a lot. I thought the "plus" referred to the size, rather than a sequence order of improved models. I thought X designated upgraded internals.

So, this watch is from two years ago? Interestingly, the box says 2019; then again, I assume they're still making and selling this line as maybe a less than premium line watch now.

It would also explain why the sale price was so good: I thought I was getting a much more recent model than it is.

Well, maybe for now I'll just stick to my AW4. Not sure I can afford the latest Garmin models. I'm pretty active, but I don't know if I'm THAT active to justify a $1000+ watch.

 

[James.K.Polk]

Thanks! That explains a lot. I thought the "plus" referred to the size, rather than a sequence order of improved models. I thought X designated upgraded internals.

So, this watch is from two years ago? Interestingly, the box says 2019; then again, I assume they're still making and selling this line as maybe a less than premium line watch now.

It would also explain why the sale price was so good: I thought I was getting a much more recent model than it is.

Well, maybe for now I'll just stick to my AW4. Not sure I can afford the latest Garmin models. I'm pretty active, but I don't know if I'm THAT active to justify a $1000+ watch.

They might still manufacture the 5X (I have no idea), but yes, launch was around Fall 2017. Not to say it's terribly outdated - it has full mapping and PulseOx which have just this year come down to the lower-priced models. But I would say unless you're under $300, it's probably not a screaming deal.

 

[ozone]

They might still manufacture the 5X (I have no idea), but yes, launch was around Fall 2017. Not to say it's terribly outdated - it has full mapping and PulseOx which have just this year come down to the lower-priced models. But I would say unless you're under $300, it's probably not a screaming deal.

I'm up in Canada, so before tax, it came to about $350 US. After tax... $381 US roughly.

I thought I was getting maybe only one model back, not two models back.

I'll think about it, but I'm a bit loathe to pay a lot for increasingly outdated technology especially since it changes so fast. We're not talking about a blender after all... Maybe a better case for my AW is a better option all things considered then... LOL

 

[oeagleo]

I'm up in Canada, so before tax, it came to about $350 US. After tax... $381 US roughly.

I thought I was getting maybe only one model back, not two models back.

I'll think about it, but I'm a bit loathe to pay a lot for increasingly outdated technology especially since it changes so fast. We're not talking about a blender after all... Maybe a better case for my AW is a better option all things considered then... LOL

Same dilemma here, I have the AW series 4, and love it. However, I also have a fenix 6 Pro Sapphire, and love it also. The dilemma comes when I try to decide which I really want to keep. I'm a 72 year old man, out of shape, with bad knees, so marathons, 100 milers, and Iron Man competitions are completely out of my realm. However, being a computer pro before I retired, I AM a data freak. The data provided from the Garmin really are nice, but I've found that with the right apps, I can replicate virtually all of the data that the Garmin gives me within Apple's Health Kit. Even SpO2, HRV, etc. Even some that I can't get in Garmin Connect. But, on the other hand, the recovery time, and training stress scores aren't in the AW scenario.
Honestly, the only REAL reason I put the Garmin on, is that I feel guilty about having an $800 watch sitting in the drawer while I'm wearing the $400 Apple Watch to get virtually the same statistics.
I'd say look at some of the available apps for the AW, and unless you're into the activity scene above, I'd say keep your watch, see what Series 6 AW will offer, and make your decision then. Possibly you can use the extra $800 for beer & pizza party?

 

[ozone]

Same dilemma here, I have the AW series 4, and love it. However, I also have a fenix 6 Pro Sapphire, and love it also. The dilemma comes when I try to decide which I really want to keep. I'm a 72 year old man, out of shape, with bad knees, so marathons, 100 milers, and Iron Man competitions are completely out of my realm. However, being a computer pro before I retired, I AM a data freak. The data provided from the Garmin really are nice, but I've found that with the right apps, I can replicate virtually all of the data that the Garmin gives me within Apple's Health Kit. Even SpO2, HRV, etc. Even some that I can't get in Garmin Connect. But, on the other hand, the recovery time, and training stress scores aren't in the AW scenario.
Honestly, the only REAL reason I put the Garmin on, is that I feel guilty about having an $800 watch sitting in the drawer while I'm wearing the $400 Apple Watch to get virtually the same statistics.
I'd say look at some of the available apps for the AW, and unless you're into the activity scene above, I'd say keep your watch, see what Series 6 AW will offer, and make your decision then. Possibly you can use the extra $800 for beer & pizza party?

Some wise words... and I should probably avoid beer (too many empty calories) and pizza (sodium) LOL!

And I know about the guilt of buying tech you don't need. I also do photography... most of my purchases have been smart.... a few... meh, what was I thinking?

 

[James.K.Polk]

Same dilemma here, I have the AW series 4, and love it. However, I also have a fenix 6 Pro Sapphire, and love it also. The dilemma comes when I try to decide which I really want to keep. I'm a 72 year old man, out of shape, with bad knees, so marathons, 100 milers, and Iron Man competitions are completely out of my realm. However, being a computer pro before I retired, I AM a data freak. The data provided from the Garmin really are nice, but I've found that with the right apps, I can replicate virtually all of the data that the Garmin gives me within Apple's Health Kit. Even SpO2, HRV, etc. Even some that I can't get in Garmin Connect. But, on the other hand, the recovery time, and training stress scores aren't in the AW scenario.
Honestly, the only REAL reason I put the Garmin on, is that I feel guilty about having an $800 watch sitting in the drawer while I'm wearing the $400 Apple Watch to get virtually the same statistics.
I'd say look at some of the available apps for the AW, and unless you're into the activity scene above, I'd say keep your watch, see what Series 6 AW will offer, and make your decision then. Possibly you can use the extra $800 for beer & pizza party?

Wise words, indeed. If you're a "data freak," I'd strongly encourage Styrd. One review is here (https://www.roadtrailrun.com/2019/10/a-runners-review-apple-watch-series-5.html), but a Google search of it will tell you it's one of the most apt sensors to pair with Apple Watch and will provide all sorts of data points - can work with Garmin and Apple as you see fit to alternate.

 

[oeagleo]

Wise words, indeed. If you're a "data freak," I'd strongly encourage Styrd. One review is here (https://www.roadtrailrun.com/2019/10/a-runners-review-apple-watch-series-5.html), but a Google search of it will tell you it's one of the most apt sensors to pair with Apple Watch and will provide all sorts of data points - can work with Garmin and Apple as you see fit to alternate.

I have looked at Stryd, seriously, but since I don't run, just walk, and hike, it's hard to justify the $200 price tag, especially since I already do have a "regular" Garmin Footpod. If I were truly serious, I'd look at the Garmin running pod for the Ground Contact time, etc, but while I've used the HRM-Run, those stats are pretty useless in my situation. The fact that it will hook up to the AW is on the plus side, so if I'm wandering around, and find a couple Benjamins, I might get one.. (hard to rationalize a $200 purchase, but I've got no problem with an $800 watch.. am I screwed up or what????) LOL

 

[James.K.Polk]

I have looked at Stryd, seriously, but since I don't run, just walk, and hike, it's hard to justify the $200 price tag, especially since I already do have a "regular" Garmin Footpod. If I were truly serious, I'd look at the Garmin running pod for the Ground Contact time, etc, but while I've used the HRM-Run, those stats are pretty useless in my situation. The fact that it will hook up to the AW is on the plus side, so if I'm wandering around, and find a couple Benjamins, I might get one.. (hard to rationalize a $200 purchase, but I've got no problem with an $800 watch.. am I screwed up or what????) LOL

I vastly prefer the Stryd to the Garmin footpod - namely because it's actually exact as a footpod (i.e. in measuring distance) - but if you already own one, you're right... may not be worth it in your use case.

 

[TTTedP]

I've had most versions of the AW and a couple of Garmin's (FR935 and 945). I most recently sold my AW5 and FR935 to fund the FR945. The FR945 is a great hybrid.

On the AW, I liked some of the features like music w/o out a phone, "smarter" smart watch, etc. I was also able to replicate much of the features from the FR935 on the AW using 3rd party apps (WoD, Strong, RunGap, etc)

In the end, it was the poor battery life and IMO, soft square look of the AW that pushed me to Garmin 100% - but I was still missing some of the smart features. Looking at the FR945 features, I thought it would offer a bit of a blend and I have to say, it does. It has more fitness features than the 935 and much, but not all, of the smart features from the AW. It is great! A much better alignment of smart and fitness features to the AW/FR935 combo in a single package.

IMO the 5X is too old unless you're getting it for $200. I would look for a used/discounted FR945 or newer Fenix 6 line. If Garmin comes out with anything new this Spring, you'll see these models drop in price. IMO, no reason to go from the AW4 to AW5 either. Wait for the AW6 if that is the device you want to use.

 

[DontGetTheCheese]

I've written a couple of posts on this as I go back and forth between the two. Basically,

Apple Watch

• Does "most" of the fitness things the Garmin does.
• Will need a 3rd party to do heavier work with data.
• Has a number of features the Fenix doesn't.
• Has a much better app ecosystem that you almost have to use.

Fenix

• Can go several days without a charge, whereas the AW needs to be charged daily. The 5X should easily get a week, assuming you work out like most normal people.
• Has a built-in data management system (Garmin Connect) that is good.
• Isn't very smart but can do "some" things.

I have both and am never able to fully commit to one or the other. Every evaluation I do the AW wins but the Garmin has an emotional connection to the way I work out. Go figure.

You might look at the forerunner's too. The new one's do almost everything a Fenix can

 

[oeagleo]

I've written a couple of posts on this as I go back and forth between the two. Basically,
I have both and am never able to fully commit to one or the other. Every evaluation I do the AW wins but the Garmin has an emotional connection to the way I work out. Go figure.

You might look at the forerunner's too. The new one's do almost everything a Fenix can

Check out my post that I started about today's experiment. I used a fenix 6 Pro Sapphire with a Wahoo Tickr chest strap, and the resulting heart rate data was essentially the same as the heart rate data produced from the Apple Watch with the INTERNAL, OHR sensor! The activities (Tai Chi) were on different days, but same class, same time, and from what I could tell, very close to the same effort. The only real difference was in the calorie count, and the Garmin was WAY off (almost double). Runalyze corrected the calorie count from the Garmin to about what it would be, but I was amazed at the closeness of the AW Heart Rate. That, along with a couple of excellent apps, (FitIV Pulse, WorkOutDoors, Auto Sleep, and HealthFit) I can do anything that the Garmin can do. I get HRV from the AW (close also, checked with EliteHRV and their pod), I have an app on the Garmin that will give me that. The Garmin gives Pulse OX, but I also have iHealth's Pulse Oximeter, very close also. I occasionally put the Garmin on for a day or so, just because I feel guilty about having that kind of money just sitting in the drawer, but I can't bring myself to sell it.. *sigh*

 

[DontGetTheCheese]

Generally, I think the AW HRM is better than the F6. I get weird spikes on the Garmin that, oddly, aren't comforting. I know it's not a me issue, because one time it popped 180 when it should have been at most 140. At my age I'd know a 180 if I hit it.

The F6 is better at GPS, in my opinion. I find the AW overstates it by a couple of percent. It can also give you crazy bad tracks at times.

Never noticed a material difference with calories.

Sleep tracking is horrible on the Garmin. I got up a couple of days ago, took the watch off, and it added 3 hours of sleep to my total because I didn't put it back on right away. Autosleep demolishes it.

WorkOutDoors is a huge gap closer, especially doing intervals. My biggest problem with the AW has been custom workouts, specifically intervals. The apps I had tried all failed at some point and it caused me to give up on that part of the AW. I'm going to do some more testing in the coming week.

PulseOx is nice but hardly needed in my opinion. Mostly it's a nice to know kind of thing. Same as the ECG on the AW.

On the other side, buttons are better than touch. I've had the watch change volume on a podcast with long sleeves (might be the crown moving and not the touch) and you are screwed in rain. Manual intervals can be done but it's harder.

Then the biggie, battery life. I used the AW a couple of times for extended times without a charger. Basically, I went from 5:00 AM to 1:00 PM the next day. I had a couple of short walks in those time frames but when I was done my battery was at 10%. That's just not good enough.

If the AW could reliably do 2 days I could live with the interface. I'm not doing anything that requires to the tenth of a second accuracy and if the GPS is off the same every time, which it pretty much is, it would be OK.

Thing is, with it's problems, there's nothing to tip the debate for me, even though I think the AW is the better device at this point.

 

[ozone]

Thanks for all the feedback. I ended up returning the Garmin 5X. Given the commentary - especially since I didn't know the 5X was already a couple of generations back - I figured I'd return it and save my money for something else. Plus the "smart" part of the Apple Watch is just too useful to forego.

But I'll keep my eyes open for improved offerings from other companies in the future!

 

[kitenski]

Thanks for all the feedback. I ended up returning the Garmin 5X. Given the commentary - especially since I didn't know the 5X was already a couple of generations back - I figured I'd return it and save my money for something else. Plus the "smart" part of the Apple Watch is just too useful to forego.

But I'll keep my eyes open for improved offerings from other companies in the future!

Keep an eye on dcrainmaker.com for reviews but also he posts Fenix deals when he finds decent ones.

 

[xDKP]

Not a Garmin man at all (the design is really not my cup of tea), but I've had the S0, S2 and S4 all of them from launch to next model launch (skipped S3 and S5)... Because of wear and tear I've always gone for the steel (hate screen scratches!) and they have all looked stunning even after two years of wrist time all day, every day. So you should really just skip the ugly cases and go for a clean look

I'm a marathoner with 2-3 a year and around 100-150 km. per month and LOVE the Apple Watch as a training partner. Best running watch I've ever had

 

[Wando64]

Also, I've noticed lately that flicking/turning my wrist does not activate the watch face as quickly as it used to: sometimes I have to free up the other hand to press the watch to see the time.

Which app do you use for workout?
I have noticed this behaviour with WOD sometimes, but maybe it is just my imagination.

 

[kitenski]

I'm a marathoner with 2-3 a year and around 100-150 km. per month and LOVE the Apple Watch as a training partner. Best running watch I've ever had

What kind of battery life to do you get on longer ones? I'm wondering about run/walking the Yorkshire 3 peaks with my AW. I did a 2hr 30min run on Sunday, with my iPhone in a backpack, and external HR and only lost about 25% batter.

 

[xDKP]

What kind of battery life to do you get on longer ones? I'm wondering about run/walking the Yorkshire 3 peaks with my AW. I did a 2hr 30min run on Sunday, with my iPhone in a backpack, and external HR and only lost about 25% batter.

I’ve run several marathons with it and my last (without music) was 3 hours 55 with 25% power left. Full brightness and GPS and heart rate.

If you need even more power, there is a power save mode for sports which should make slower HR measurement. Actually makes sense as the HR on race day isn’t as crucial to me as in training.

 

[RoarinRow]

I bounce back between my AW4 and my Garmin Instinct. The Instinct is always on, has smart watch like features, can display text messages, emails, and any notifications from my iPhone X. It's thicker than the AW4, doesn't have a color screen, but has a 14 day battery life, which is awesome! The Instinct also works with my Garmin Inreach Mini GPS unit, which was the selling point for me.

 

[MajkJaro]

I’ve run several marathons with it and my last (without music) was 3 hours 55 with 25% power left. Full brightness and GPS and heart rate.

If you need even more power, there is a power save mode for sports which should make slower HR measurement. Actually makes sense as the HR on race day isn’t as crucial to me as in training.

How long does it last with music?

 

[kitenski]

I recently walked the Yorkshire 3 peaks, running the Workoutdoors app to provide the route.

I was very pleasantly surprised to end the walk with 37% battery left after being out in the Dales for 10hrs and 20 minutes!

I had my phone with me the whole time, so the watch was offloading GPS to that and had it also in Theatre Mode with raise to wake turned off.