Apple Watch Import Ban Now Official, Apple Appeals Decision

[bradman83]

Very sad when we continuously bail out airlines etc that do blatant bad business.

Functional airlines are a vital necessity for any country, which is why taxpayers routinely have to bail them out (and why many countries have state-owned or state-funded airlines). Smart watches sold by a trillion dollar companies are not vital, coupled with the fact that the dispute is between two US-based companies. If a foreign company tried to use the ITC to ban all chips based on the ARM instruction set from the US market the federal government would absolutely step in and veto the ban because of the massive negative impact it would have.

 

[GMShadow]

Pretty sure the Qualcomm issue was about Qualcomm double dipping- charge for the modem and/or then charge a royalty based the cost of the “phone” not the cost of the “modem”

Correct. The fact that Qualcomm was facing multiple antitrust probes from multiple governments might have been an indicator that perhaps there was more than smoke there.

Of course, Qualcomm bullied their victims into silence to try to kill the probes.

 

[ApplesAreSweet&Sour]

So what about Masino stealing the idea from Apple to use an oxygen monitor in a smart watch? Apple did it much earlier than Masino their smart watch.

If you could patent broad concepts like what sensors to put into a device then nobody could make any product without getting sued left and right from patent trolls.

This is about one company developing patented tech for blood oxygen monitoring and Apple deliberately poaching employees and implementing the patented tech into their products without paying the company that developed the tech and owns the patent.

 

[Dionte]

How much further would innovation be if not for the patent system. Humans would probably be able to get beyond the Milky Way galaxy if not for all the greed on earth.

 

[lkrupp]

This is what happens when you have a leader that only understands money and not technology.

I mean, when is the board going to stand up and say, "You mean we can't sell a product that you spent $100 million developing because you forgot to check the patents?"

Apple knew quite well about the patents and they were successful in invalidating all but one of them. They are stilling working on that. And if you think this was solely Tim Cook's decision you are sadly mistaken. The CEO is not a dictator.

 

[bobbie424242]

This should have never happened as Apple is $DEITY tier, above governments, laws, other deities and much more.

 

[ProfessionalFan]

Tim has nothing to do with this lol. Apple’s patent lawyer bench is huge and decides what flies on these moves. Tim does not get to disregard anything the lawyers wouldn’t have cleared.

The buck stops at the CEO. He gets credited when the company succeeds so he is for sure going to be blamed when there are some failures. He ultimately decides who is employed at the company.

 

[ProfessionalFan]

This should have never happened as Apple is $DEITY tier, above governments, laws, other deities and much more.

Obviously not?

 

[ApplesAreSweet&Sour]

Good. If Apple is infringing on someone’s else tech, they need to secure the proper license. Unfortunately, it may cost them a lot more now, Masimo has all the leverage. Will be interesting to see how this unfolds.

It depends on whether Masimo was asking for too much or Apple not willing to pay enough.

The court will consider dollar amounts and decide what is fair.

Hopefully these negotiations will be brought to light.

Of course, it doesn’t bode well for Apple as they went ahead and violated Masimo’s patent despite not having made a deal.

Apple will most certainly have to pay a ton of damages to Masimo and then forced to pay royalties for all future S9 and older Watches sales.

Maybe no blood oxygen sensor in Series 10?

Apple will definitely cut it if it cuts too far into profits or would lead to a steep price increase for consumers.

 

[ProfessionalFan]

I'm amused at all the people who don't know any of the facts of the case and simply decided Apple is guilty because BIG COMPANY BAD.

I'm amused at all the people who don't know any of the facts of the case and simply decided Apple is innocent because APPLE CAN DO NO WRONG.

 

[klasma]

This is an insane response to a finding of infringement for some minimally important feature that most users probably don’t even know exists. Require a royalty, require Apple to disable the blood ox by software, but don’t ban sales of the entire device. IP law run complexly amok.

Patent holders are not required to grant a license, nor should they be (except for standard-essential patents, which this is not). Allowing patent-violating products to continue to be sold would however effectively equate to that.

If the feature is really of such minimal importance, then Apple can just remove or disable it.

 

[ProfessionalFan]

How much further would innovation be if not for the patent system. Humans would probably be able to get beyond the Milky Way galaxy if not for all the greed on earth.

I don't get this take. Patent system helps innovation if anything. If anyone could just copy someone else's idea and start using it, there'd be even less reason to innovate or try to bring something new to the market.

And the patent system has helped Apple a heck of a lot more overall than it has been a negative for them.

 

[lkrupp]

How much further would innovation be if not for the patent system. Humans would probably be able to get beyond the Milky Way galaxy if not for all the greed on earth.

Capitalism has a long history of little guys getting stomped into the ground by the big guys. The patent system goes back several centuries. A patent clerk in Bern, Switzerland in 1905 once said...

"The origin of all technical achievements is the divine curiosity and the play instinct of the working and thinking researcher, as well as the constructive fantasy of the technical inventor." Albert Einstein

If Apple firmly believes it has not infringed on Masimo’s patent it has every right to fight to the end. Masimo has every right to defend it to the end. This will be over sooner rather than later.

 

[sw1tcher]

I think if it has gotten to the point the Apple had to stop selling the product, Apple has probably already tried to license the tech and failed to reach an agreement.

I'm going to have to call B.S. on that.

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/12/20/apple-fails-in-bid-to-delay-apple-watch-sales-ban.html

Masimo CEO Joe Kiani told CNBC on Monday that Apple had not reached out to settle.

“I don’t care that much about the Apple leadership, given about what I know about how they run the company,” Kiani said. “I still extended the olive branch and offered to work with them for the betterment of people and our shareholders, and not even a call.”

 

[Ethosik]

If you could patent broad concepts like what sensors to put into a device then nobody could make any product without getting sued left and right from patent trolls.

This is about one company developing patented tech for blood oxygen monitoring and Apple deliberately poaching employees and implementing the patented tech into their products without paying the company that developed the tech and owns the patent.

There are so many examples of bad patents that the whole system is a joke. Especially software patents. The biggest one that irritated me back when it matters is something as broad as “no mini games during load screens”. Back when we had long load screens in games this would have been a positive experience for the gamer. But nope because of that broad patent it was a worse experience.

 

[ProfessionalFan]

I'm going to have to call B.S. on that.

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/12/20/apple-fails-in-bid-to-delay-apple-watch-sales-ban.html

Masimo CEO Joe Kiani told CNBC on Monday that Apple had not reached out to settle.

“I don’t care that much about the Apple leadership, given about what I know about how they run the company,” Kiani said. “I still extended the olive branch and offered to work with them for the betterment of people and our shareholders, and not even a call.”

Says everything about Apple. I am a loyal customer with too many products from them, but I also don't have blinders on. I can see they are far from perfect.

 

[klasma]

How much further would innovation be if not for the patent system. Humans would probably be able to get beyond the Milky Way galaxy if not for all the greed on earth.

Or maybe there would be no startups developing new technology because it would immediately be appropriated by the big companies who can out-scale and price-dump them out of existence.

There’s a lot wrong with the patents system, but some IP protection needs to be in place.

 

[spazzcat]

Here's an idea... Apple could negotiate with Massimo to license their tech... just like they do with Qualcom.

Why don't we wait until see if more of Massimo patents get tossed and/or Apple's patents get validated.

 

[gank41]

I find it odd that Apple let it get this far, as if they truly believed they were not infringing on these patents. There's gotta be more to this.

 

[spazzcat]

I'm amused at all the people who don't know any of the facts of the case and simply decided Apple is innocent because APPLE CAN DO NO WRONG.

You mean like Apple having their own patents for this tech?

 

[mingoglia]

I bought 2 Series 9 and 1 Ultra for Christmas gifts 2 days before the ban. After seeing my son's Ultra he opened on Christmas, I now regret not getting one for myself while i could still get one. I guess for once I got in before it was too late, at least for the 3 family members I bought them for (daughter and mother in law being the other two).

 

[ProfessionalFan]

Why don't we wait until see if more of Massimo patents get tossed and/or Apple's patents get validated.

Why give Apple the benefit of the doubt? Thus far, it has seemed like Masimo is not making anything up.

 

[GMShadow]

I'm going to have to call B.S. on that.

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/12/20/apple-fails-in-bid-to-delay-apple-watch-sales-ban.html

Masimo CEO Joe Kiani told CNBC on Monday that Apple had not reached out to settle.

“I don’t care that much about the Apple leadership, given about what I know about how they run the company,” Kiani said. “I still extended the olive branch and offered to work with them for the betterment of people and our shareholders, and not even a call.”

Kiani's already made his demands and they're nuts. Why should Apple waste their time with him when the legal system has already shown Masimo was abusing their patents (if 15/17 are thrown out after one review it says a lot about the weakness of their case) and Apple will likely win on appeal?

 

[ProfessionalFan]

I bought 2 Series 9 and 1 Ultra for Christmas gifts 2 days before the ban. After seeing my son's Ultra he opened on Christmas, I now regret not getting one for myself while i could still get one. I guess for once I got in before it was too late, at least for the 3 family members I bought them for (daughter and mother in law being the other two).

It'll be back on sale one way or another.

BTW You can still buy them from retailers like Best Buy and Amazon for the time being.

 

[klasma]

It depends on whether Masimo was asking for too much or Apple not willing to pay enough.

The court will consider dollar amounts and decide what is fair.

There is no obligation to license-out a patent. This may not be about money. Masimo wanted a partnership and remain in control over how the technology is used, and Apple upset them with their earlier behavior.