Apple Watch Import Ban Now Official, Apple Appeals Decision

[Piggie]

Honestly, I used to love Apple.
I has an Blue Apple G3 and I bought the very 1st iPad.
But under Tim's Rule of Greed and thinking they can do as they wish, I'm not feeling nothing but distain at what was a lovely company wishing to do what's right, and produce amazing devices, to an arrogant company that feels it's always right and can ignore anyone who dare question it.
It's such a shame that under Tim's leadership Apple's values have changed to be the company that's seen as the problem, as opposed to the solutions.
Shame on you Tim for what you have done.

 

[iLuddite]

Ironic that this happened to be the year I got rid of my Apple Watch…. 😹

 

[GMShadow]

Do more research ON FACTS.

Apple actually actively poached researchers FROM from Massimo since 2013. Go ahead and LOOK UP.

Then Apple decided to release products that had technologies with patent on!

Please be an INFORMED fanboy!

I wasn't aware companies owned their employees for all time. That's a new one for me.

Especially ironic given the anti-poaching issues Apple had previously.

Someone does need to look into the facts here, and not just the headlines, and it isn't me...

 

[tomtad]

Hopefully the board seriously considers holding Tim Cook responsible.

I honestly think he doesn't have long left. Apple has gambled here and lost, and Cook is ultimately responsible for that.

Add to this the impending Vision Pro damp squib and Cook will be quietly asked to do the right thing.

 

[johnnygee]

Here's an idea... Apple could negotiate with Massimo to license their tech... just like they do with Qualcom.

I had read that

This is an insane response to a finding of infringement for some minimally important feature that most users probably don’t even know exists. Require a royalty, require Apple to disable the blood ox by software, but don’t ban sales of the entire device. IP law run complexly amok.

I use the O2 sensor daily for sleep, exercise activities and general health.

 

[hans1972]

This is what happens when you have a leader that only understands money and not technology.

I mean, when is the board going to stand up and say, "You mean we can't sell a product that you spent $100 million developing because you forgot to check the patents?"

This comment is what happens when you don't know patent law.

Checking the patents and knowing that you might be breaking a patent might result in triple damages awarded for intentionally breaking a patent.

Ignorance save you money in patent litigation.

 

[raythompsontn]

Patent system helps innovation if anything

It does, to a certain extent. Patent law can be complicated as to what is infringed and what is not infringed.

Some patents are overly broad, such as simply describing a method to connect two computers and transfer information. It is almost impossible to not infringe on such a patent. Other things that are obvious, and are common, should not be subject to a patent. Yet a patent can be established. Some of the obvious methods that have been patented have had the patent invalidated. Why was it ever patented from the start?

When I came up with an original idea, I attempted to patent the idea. No way it was possible. The costs to research the patent, and file the patent, would have bankrupted me. Another company used the same idea a year after mine. A company with much deeper pockets than mine. I contacted the company and was told to take them to court, basically to pound sand. My legal fees would be more than I could ever afford. That is a problem in a system where the deeper pockets can prevail. I have no solution.

I don't think Apple knowingly violated a patent. I could be wrong. Apple lawyers are smart enough to know the issues. On the other side of the coin Apple may have done so, knowing the legal, and most importantly, the financial issues. Apple may have thought they could squash the smaller company, the same as was done by a company using my idea.

Pulse oximeters can be had for less than $12.00. What technology are they using that Apple could not use? Are these pulse oximeters on Amazon violating the same patent of which apple is accused of violating? If Masimo owns the patent, why are these other companies not being pursued. In my opinion it is because Apple has deep pockets.

In almost all patent battles the consumer loses.

 

[cylack]

Apple will probably just end up buying out Masimo. Its a $6B market cap company so not that big of a deal.

 

[Amplelink]

It does, to a certain extent. Patent law can be complicated as to what is infringed and what is not infringed.

Some patents are overly broad, such as simply describing a method to connect two computers and transfer information. It is almost impossible to not infringe on such a patent. Other things that are obvious, and are common, should not be subject to a patent. Yet a patent can be established. Some of the obvious methods that have been patented have had the patent invalidated. Why was it ever patented from the start?

When I came up with an original idea, I attempted to patent the idea. No way it was possible. The costs to research the patent, and file the patent, would have bankrupted me. Another company used the same idea a year after mine. A company with much deeper pockets than mine. I contacted the company and was told to take them to court, basically to pound sand. My legal fees would be more than I could ever afford. That is a problem in a system where the deeper pockets can prevail. I have no solution.

I don't think Apple knowingly violated a patent. I could be wrong. Apple lawyers are smart enough to know the issues. On the other side of the coin Apple may have done so, knowing the legal, and most importantly, the financial issues. Apple may have thought they could squash the smaller company, the same as was done by a company using my idea.

Pulse oximeters can be had for less than $12.00. What technology are they using that Apple could not use? Are these pulse oximeters on Amazon violating the same patent of which apple is accused of violating? If Masimo owns the patent, why are these other companies not being pursued. In my opinion it is because Apple has deep pockets.

In almost all patent battles the consumer loses.

I think it runs deeper than what you're saying. It sounds like they actively poached employees from the other company. If I were the other company, I'd be pissed too.

Pulse oximeters are a dime a dozen but there's probably some tech in there that applies it in a really small form factor and to the wrist. I'm not an expert, but the tech to find your pulse through your finger is probably different than through the under side of your wrist?

Either way, if there weren't meaningful differences, I doubt the government would've upheld this.

 

[raythompsontn]

but the law is bad. They SHOULD be required to grant a license, as that’s unequivocally a better outcome for society

OK. Good point. But who, or what, sets the royalties?

 

[PassiveSmoking]

You better Watch out
There's no chance to buy
They're pulled from the shelves
And I'm telling you why
Patent Law is taking them down

 

[bsolar]

I think it runs deeper than what you're saying. It sounds like they actively poached employees from the other company. If I were the other company, I'd be pissed too.

While it's true that Apple poached employees from Masimo, that in itself is not illegal and AFAIK the resulting lawsuit brought by Masimo against Apple for allegedly stealing trade secrets ended with a hung jury.

 

[BarrettF77]

Indeed.
But now they're negotiating in a position of weakness.

A rare instance where Tim's arrogance and greed has come back to bite him.

I hope there are many more cases like this. And I hope Apple gets their bad policies ripped apart for the betterment of the customer. These large companies have grown to abuse their power

 

[prefuse07]

Hopefully the ban becomes permanent and THIS will be Timmy the clown's legacy

 

[GMShadow]

While it's true that Apple poached employees from Masimo, that in itself is not illegal and AFAIK the resulting lawsuit brought by Masimo against Apple for allegedly stealing trade secrets ended with a hung jury.

And it was only hung because one juror sided with Masimo, the rest all went for Apple. I expect on appeal they'll manage to get all of them.

 

[raythompsontn]

I think it runs deeper than what you're saying

Of that I have no doubt.

tech to find your pulse through your finger is probably different than through the under side of your wrist

The pulse and oxygen checking is done on the top of the wrist. I do see your point. I thought it was all about measuring the color of the blood using wavelengths of light. I would not think the location would make that much difference but maybe it does.

if there weren't meaningful differences, I doubt the government would've upheld this

I don't really trust the U.S. government to be the savvy when dealing with technology. This is the same government that cannot give us any type of tax software, borked the health care application, has PDF's that cannot be filled in on a computer, etc. The courts even less so on technology.

Regardless, the consumer will lose and the lawyers will be rewarded substantially.

 

[raythompsontn]

bad policies ripped apart for the betterment of the customer

And exactly how has this incident been for the betterment of the consumer? In these types of battles the consumer always loses. There is higher cost of the product for the feature, or the feature is removed. The consumer never wins in these battles.

 

[bsolar]

And it was only hung because one juror sided with Masimo, the rest all went for Apple. I expect on appeal they'll manage to get all of them.

It doesn't matter how many, one is enough for a hung jury as the verdict had to be unanimous. There is no appeal yet as a hung jury leads to a mistrial, not to a verdict.

Masimo can retry the case if they want though, if they believe they can present a better case in front of a different jury that might side with them.

 

[I7guy]

I hope there are many more cases like this. And I hope Apple gets their bad policies ripped apart for the betterment of the customer. These large companies have grown to abuse their power

If apple is guilty of infringement. Sure. But when they are not they aren’t. And small companies have been known to abuse their power as well.

 

[spazzcat]

Do more research ON FACTS.

Apple actually actively poached researchers FROM from Massimo since 2013. Go ahead and LOOK UP.

Then Apple decided to release products that had technologies with patent on!

Please be an INFORMED fanboy!

It's not illegal to to hire people that have a skill set you are looking for.

 

[mdriftmeyer]

It depends on whether Masimo was asking for too much or Apple not willing to pay enough.

The court will consider dollar amounts and decide what is fair.

Hopefully these negotiations will be brought to light.

Of course, it doesn’t bode well for Apple as they went ahead and violated Masimo’s patent despite not having made a deal.

Apple will most certainly have to pay a ton of damages to Masimo and then forced to pay royalties for all future S9 and older Watches sales.

Maybe no blood oxygen sensor in Series 10?

Apple will definitely cut it if it cuts too far into profits or would lead to a steep price increase for consumers.

This has nothing to do with a blood oxygen sensor but whether Apple’s implementation of a blood oxygen sensor was unique and novel.

LED Sensors pre-date Massimo by decades and no one gets to own the concept of measuring oxygen levels in the blood.

They get to patent a unique and novel way of doing so.

Apple filed an appeal which will go to a review and at the same time continue work on new implementations that assign them their own novel implementation(s) in measuring oxygen levels in the blood.

 

[spazzcat]

I think it runs deeper than what you're saying. It sounds like they actively poached employees from the other company. If I were the other company, I'd be pissed too.

Pulse oximeters are a dime a dozen but there's probably some tech in there that applies it in a really small form factor and to the wrist. I'm not an expert, but the tech to find your pulse through your finger is probably different than through the under side of your wrist?

Either way, if there weren't meaningful differences, I doubt the government would've upheld this.

So Apple isn't allowed to offer people a better deal to come work for them?

 

[bsolar]

And exactly how has this incident been for the betterment of the consumer? In these types of battles the consumer always loses. There is higher cost of the product for the feature, or the feature is removed. The consumer never wins in these battles.

While I don't like patent battles either, patent battles affirm the value of patents as legal instruments to protect inventions while at the same time publish them.

If these battles didn't exists, which company would rely on patents to protect their inventions? The alternative would be trade secrets, which I'm unsure would be better overall.

 

[bsolar]

So Apple isn't allowed to offer people a better deal to come work for them?

Poaching in itself is not illegal, but sometimes it's associated with other illegal activities like stealing trade secrets. Poaching employees with the intent of stealing trade secrets from their former employer is illegal.

Said that, as posted above, Masimo's lawsuit against Apple for stealing trade secrets ended in a mistrial so for now they failed to prove their allegations against Apple in that regard.

 

[Suicidy]

Was it so expensive that Apple couldn't make a deal with Masimo or Apple thought that a Billion Dollar company is no match to a 3 trillion $ giant so we just run over them? Now Masimo can ask for any amount and we customers will have to pay. Masimo and Samsung had a partnership during covid. So...

Masimo has a market cap of under $7 billion. So I’m a bit surprised that Apple just doesn’t buy the company. Or at least a significant stake.