Apple Welcomes Kindle Fire Tablet and More Android Fragmentation

[*LTD*]

Only thing is - the fire isn't trying to be the iPad.

Which might be a serious problem.

These also-rans seem to have a serious product-positioning problem.

If they position their device directly against the iPad, it usually becomes glaringly obvious that it is nothing like an iPad, which is often a big problem.

If they deliberately position it away from the iPad, it will become glaringly obvious that it lacks everything that makes an iPad (and thus what is expected from a tablet) great.

But this is an industry-wide problem. Most of these tablet makers are noticeably confused, and have been since the iPad hit the market.

 

[spaceballl]

Not gonna lie... I pre-ordered a Kindle Fire, and I'm pretty excited about it .

 

[Xendren]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; CPU iPhone OS 5_0 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9A334 Safari/7534.48.3)

In January 2010, there was no tablet to compare iPad features against.

 

[Maschil]

All i can say to tim cook is.... stop hatin....

----------

Look at PCs today. Then look at Macs today.

Anyone can pimp out an OS to OEMS and sell tons of $400 eMachines. But what is the consumer actually getting?

We know what they're getting with a Mac, though. Each and every time.

https://www.macrumors.com/2011/09/2...isfaction-survey-for-eighth-consecutive-time/

An unweeded garden is an unweeded garden, no matter how large.

who wouldn't he happy after spending 1k on a computer???? Duh...........

 

[Bigcase]

I love apple, and I'm about as far as you can be within their ecosystem of products (iphone4s, ipad 2, apple tv's, imac, macbook pro), but I'm really considering for $200.00, trying one of these pretty slick looking machines out.

 

[RMo]

[Amazon's] business model is the complete opposite of Apples who makes their profit on the products but doesn't make any substantial money on content-delivery.

And yet Amazon's prices on content are still quite often cheaper.

 

[samcraig]

Which might be a serious problem.

For who? Amazon - I don't think so.

For Apple? Not at all.

The problem (and I don't even think there's a problem as both devices serve different purposes but have overlap) is that people have some wierd need to compare the devices.

Amazon is offering a lower cost media consumption device (yes - it will have apps too). Amazon has an eco system to sustain the device. In fact - ONLY Amazon has such an ecosystem that overlaps Apple's.

Amazon's Fire doesn't have to be an iPad or offer the same things to succeed.

But if very successful - I could see Amazong kicking it up a notch and offering something more in terms of a productivity down the road.

 

[guch20]

I disagree, to the average consumer, it's a tablet with a few less bells and whistles (that they weren't sure if they needed) and it's $300 less (and they don't have to decide if they want any of the larger models, since there is only one choice).

And most people aren't realizing they're going to have glare outside in the sun, they've all learned that Kindle's don't have the glare/reflection issue when outside. When I point that out, they seem surprised, and then it seems even more like an iPad to them...

Gary

Okay, so it's an iPad without a lot of key features (it's limited to two-finger multi-touch, has no gyroscope, has no accelerometer--which a TON of apps use) and has screen glare on its smaller screen. And a tiny selection of apps that gets even smaller in comparison when you remember the iPad can run just about any iPhone app on top of the tens (hundreds?) of thousands of iPad exclusive apps.

So yeah, that's why it's $300 cheaper. Well, that and it's made of plastic (yes, I know they claim it's made of something that's chemically harder than plastic, but if you show it to someone and ask what it's made of, they're gonna think plastic).

It's not a true tablet, no matter what the "average" consumer thinks. It's an ereader with some extra stuff built in. Which, again, isn't a bad thing.

I'd just hate to be one of those people expecting an iPad-killer and getting something that's really, really not.

 

[*LTD*]

I love apple, and I'm about as far as you can be within their ecosystem of products (iphone4s, ipad 2, apple tv's, imac, macbook pro), but I'm really considering for $200.00, trying one of these pretty slick looking machines out.

I hope you can at least return if it you don't like it. The tablet competition tends to treat consumers more like helpless guinea pigs than anything else. HP Slate, Xoom, Playbook, etc. I feel sorry for people who got conned into buying these things.

 

[Maschil]

I disagree, to the average consumer, it's a tablet with a few less bells and whistles (that they weren't sure if they needed) and it's $300 less (and they don't have to decide if they want any of the larger models, since there is only one choice).

And most people aren't realizing they're going to have glare outside in the sun, they've all learned that Kindle's don't have the glare/reflection issue when outside. When I point that out, they seem surprised, and then it seems even more like an iPad to them...

Gary

exactly... we have to realize that too the average person... a ipad and kindle fire are the same... tablets... and 200 is much more afforable than 500....

 

[rmwebs]

IMO the Fire is not creating any form of fragmentation.

Think of it this way: The Fire is using Android as its backbone, but is very heavily modified. Thats comparable to Ubuntu being built on top of Debian. Thats how Amazon are using Android....quite simply to speed up the development time, and to provide them with a solid, tried and tested OS to build on top of.

I wouldn't be surprised if many Google Market apps intentionally dont work on the Fire, and thats how it should be. It should be treated as a completely new system due to how different it is from stock android.

 

[Maschil]

I hope you can at least return if it you don't like it. The tablet competition tends to treat consumers more like helpless guinea pigs than anything else. HP Slate, Xoom, Playbook, etc. I feel sorry for people who got conned into buying these things.

so do i man you're right.....i just look for ipad 2s on craigslist.....lol because if i am going to get a tablet... its either a ipad 2.... or a kindle just because of the price....

 

[APlotdevice]

Android 3.x is Honeycomb (for tablets).
ICS is 4.x (for phones).

ICS is for both smartphones and tablets. It unifies the two versions of Android.

 

[za9ra22]

Precisely.

Fragmentation is a word attached to the fact that there are "choices" that frighten those who fear making decisions.

If one is truly convinced this is fragmentation, then how do we explain automobiles?

Their OS is the engine. OMG!!! more fragmentation. It's everywhere

3 Cylinder
4 Cylinder
5 Cylinder
6 Cylinder
V-6
V-8
V-10
V-12

Gasoline, Electric, Hybrid, Diesel, Natural Gas? OMG!!!

Colors, Options, Confusing Pricing... OMG !!!

Why Doesn't Apple make a car and STOP THIS MADNESS
Why Doesn't Apple open a grocery store and STOP THIS MADNESS

YIKES... I have a massive migraine from all these choices, not to mention how stressed out I am...

I'm sure that was a very amusing argument, but it rather misses the point. To use your automobile analogy, imagine there are 100 people wanting to buy a car, and only two manufacturers offering 2 models each. Statistically, each manufacturer will gain 50% of the market, with each model at 25% share. Lots of profit.

Now, imagine the same 100 buyers, but instead of 2 models each from 2 manufacturers, there are 40 manufacturers with each building a range of 2-6 automobiles. Statistically no individual model will gain a significant proportion of market share, thus each manufacturer sells fewer vehicles as a whole, and fewer of any individual model. And since each vehicle costs the same to develop and build, each manufacturer makes much less profit.

Scale that up to fit the actual market and you see what has been demonstrated over the past few years in the US - that manufacturers have had to drop brands and lots of models in order to reverse the market fragmentation that had already taken place. That's what fragmentation is: too many diverse products in a limited market place. Fragmentation is good for the consumer in the sense it provides a wealth of choice, but bad for business because it lowers sales volume on any individual product, and thus with fixed costs, also reduces profits.

 

[samcraig]

I hope you can at least return if it you don't like it. The tablet competition tends to treat consumers more like helpless guinea pigs than anything else. HP Slate, Xoom, Playbook, etc. I feel sorry for people who got conned into buying these things.

Do you even know anything about Amazon? Because of all the ignorant comments I've seen - this just about takes the cake.

Nobody's getting conned here any more than when Apple displayed the iPad and said they can access the full web, etc - then people realized that although you can be a little productive - it wasn't big on productivity.

Further - Amazon has always treated customers pretty darn well and has had GREAT customer service.

Something I think you just type to see yourself in print.

 

[timlot]

Andy Rubin was asked this question at the AsiaD conference and his responsed that there really is no fragmentation as far as Apps are concerned because they all built to the Android APIs no matter what version.

 

[KnightWRX]

Actually, no, that wasn't my argument. The Kindle Fire only causes problems for Apple if it notably cannibalizes iPad sales, which Apple seem to think it will not.

And by that token, why would it cannibalize Android tablet sales when it's not an Android tablet ? (unless you're talking about 7 inch tablets, the most prominent of which is the RIM Playbook, not any Android stuff).

 

[snebes]

Who said they are making it at a loss? MR posters? Last I read - costs were about $150-$160 to make the device - so there was some profit being made.

I forget where, but it was announced they are selling this at about a $10.00 loss. There is more to a tablet than just the parts. Assembly, packaging, testing, etc. need to be factored in too.

 

[OneMike]

i'm very excited about the kindle fire.

I think apple should be VERY concerned.

 

[ftaok]

And by that token, why would it cannibalize Android tablet sales when it's not an Android tablet ? (unless you're talking about 7 inch tablets, the most prominent of which is the RIM Playbook, not any Android stuff).

I thought the Samsung 7" Tab was the best selling 7" tablet. No?

I think the canibalization point is that if the Fire catches on, will it eat into sales of Android tablets, iPads, or the others? We've seen the price points at which a tablet device moves into a sort of no-brainer purchase (about $99-$150 as shown with the TouchPads). The Fire is slightly above that price point.

I personally believe that the Fire will be a big seller and will impact the tablet market. However, I believe that the impact will be felt more by the Android OEMs (Samsung, Sony, LG, Acer, etc) than by Apple.

 

[Bernard SG]

exactly... we have to realize that too the average person... a ipad and kindle fire are the same... tablets... and 200 is much more afforable than 500....

Yeah, that's why all those wonderful Android tablets are flying off the shelves, selling like hot cakes... Oh, wait! They actually don't.

 

[za9ra22]

And by that token, why would it cannibalize Android tablet sales when it's not an Android tablet ? (unless you're talking about 7 inch tablets, the most prominent of which is the RIM Playbook, not any Android stuff).

I'm not sure what point you're making, because I didn't say that either. I'm not sure it's my place to justify an argument I didn't make.

 

[Eidorian]

Yeah, that's why all those wonderful Android tablets are flying off the shelves, selling like hot cakes... Oh, wait! They actually don't.

The local Big Lots cannot keep them in stock. Not that I would ever buy one. My only motivation to purchase a tablet is peer pressure and/or constant marketing bombardment.

 

[KnightWRX]

I thought the Samsung 7" Tab was the best selling 7" tablet. No?

And how big is that market ? I thought the Samsung 7" Tab was hardly selling at all.

----------

I'm not sure what point you're making, because I didn't say that either. I'm not sure it's my place to justify an argument I didn't make.

I'm trying to get what you don't see as Tim Cook not understanding the situation with the Kindle Fire. You keep saying "Tim Cook knows best". Frankly, I think Tim Cook was talking FUD.

Kindle Fire fragments Android about as much as a Ford Fiesta fragments things for a GMC Canyon.

 

[kharvel]

This makes Apple sound so juvenile. We welcome it because we think it will make Android suck more? Come on Apple! Those are just cheap shots and arent' necessary from such a large company. If it wasn't for Android, Jailbreakers etc, Apple wouldn't be so far in it's innovation. These products and changes are what make Apple get off their c@cky arses and keep up with competitors. Jeeze, you don't hear of other big companies taking all these cheap shots.

Are you one of those Android trolls who hang around the Macrumors and Appleinsider forums?

Let me rip your argument apart, piece by piece:

We welcome it because we think it will make Android suck more?

No, we welcome it because it targets the low-end market which the iPad doesn't serve and it fragments the Android ecosystem to the extent that an app purchased for the Fire doesn't work with another non-Amazon tablet. Consumers would have to stick with just one platform since they do not want to spend twice for the same apps and we hope they will stick with the Amazon platform and by doing so, they will not purchase copies of iPads from Samsung, Motorola, etc.

Those are just cheap shots and arent' necessary from such a large company.

There are no cheap shots in the business of capitalism. Microsoft took cheap shots at us and IBM during the PC wars and look where it got them.

If it wasn't for Android, Jailbreakers etc, Apple wouldn't be so far in it's innovation.

Correction: If it wasn't for Steve Jobs, Apple wouldn't be so far in its innovation. Please give credit where credit is due. Apple didn't need competition (competition didn't exist at that time) to come up with the iPhone. Apple didn't need competition to come up with the iPad. It doesn't need competition to innovate, period. It just needs boatloads of cash and a desire to create insanely great and magical products, REGARDLESS of what the market thinks or does ("oh, the iPad is just a gigantic iPod touch". "oh, the iPhone sucks because it doesn't use a stylus or a keyboard!")

These products and changes are what make Apple get off their c@cky arses and keep up with competitors.

What products and changes caused Apple to come up with the idea for the iPhone? For the iPod? For the iPad? Are you so naive or trollish to assume that immediately after they developed the iPhone and iPad, their product maps were determined solely by the competitors and markets? You guys have been taking way too much LSD - Steve said to take it in moderation!!

Jeeze, you don't hear of other big companies taking all these cheap shots.

I would like to introduce you to Larry Ellison and Bill Gates.