Apple Will Face Lawsuit Over Phone-Switching iMessage Issue

[tooloud10]

The problem is that iMessage simply attaches to regular SMS and takes over that,

No, that's not true. iPhones will happily send and receive SMS messages all day long for anyone that chooses not to manually activate the iMessage feature.

there isn't a service you stop using per se because people still always simply messaged you using your phone number which is what SMS uses and what iMessage ends up taking over.

Apple has no control over users that attempt to send iMessages to former users of the service.

So when you are not using it anymore the takeover should be done and simply regular SMS would be used with people still using the same old phone number they always used for you, whether you had iMessage or not. That's where the difference is and that's where the issue lies. All these other analogies are simply not the same because they don't have one service using the same identifier as another service as is the case for iMessage simply using your phone number as SMS does and selecting which one should be used on its own based on what Apple servers say.

Apple is free and clear on this whole process because iMessage is an "opt-in" feature. The functionality described in the lawsuit is a result of users specifically choosing to use it, thus they shouldn't be surprised when it stops working after one side of the conversation decides to stop using the feature.

 

[C DM]

No, the iMessage feature most certainly does not send texts to non-iOS users. The iMessage function is not the same as the SMS function. It seems apparent that some users think they're sending an SMS when they're actually sending an iMessage; this has nothing to do with Apple.



Absolutely, because the user that's sending the message has manually activated the iMessage feature on their phone. That is, the user has chosen to use a non-SMS system to send a message to a recipient that has chosen to no longer use the service.



Never seen it, and I have three phones on three major carriers.



Nope, no SMS messages were ever even sent or blocked because the person sending the message has chosen to use iMessage instead of SMS. It's a perfectly simple process for me to choose to send an SMS from my iPhone instead of an iMessage, and vice-versa.

And that's not how iMessage is set up to work--you enable it and it appropriately chooses whether or not to send an iMessage to someone or basically to use SMS all on its own. That's the whole big point behind it is that it works transparently deciding for you what's right. And the issue is that in enough of these cases it wasn't deciding correctly when it was thinking that some numbers are still using iMessage when they weren't.

 

[Tough Guy]

Apple is free and clear on this whole process because iMessage is an "opt-in" feature. The functionality described in the lawsuit is a result of users specifically choosing to use it, thus they shouldn't be surprised when it stops working after one side of the conversation decides to stop using the feature.

Can it be de-activated by the user? Referring to SMS being overtaken by imessage.

 

[C DM]

No, that's not true. iPhones will happily send and receive SMS messages all day long for anyone that chooses not to manually activate the iMessage feature.



Apple has no control over users that attempt to send iMessages to former users of the service.



Apple is free and clear on this whole process because iMessage is an "opt-in" feature. The functionality described in the lawsuit is a result of users specifically choosing to use it, thus they shouldn't be surprised when it stops working after one side of the conversation decides to stop using the feature.

Again, the point of iMessage is that it will do it all for you--send an iMessage when appropriate or an SMS when appropriate. It's not about enabling it to just use iMessage and then disabling to just use SMS. That's not how Apple designed it and that's not how they want it to be used.

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It seems like it's ALWAYS a woman filing these types of lawsuits. I think it's a cultural issue where North American women are taught to not take responsibility for their own actions. "It's always someone else's fault" is the mantra of the modern North American female. There's a major sense of entitlement as well.

And this has absolutely nothing to do with this. There's a real issue that even Apple acknowledged and finally started dealing with. Trying to make it sound like it's some gender or cultural things is just inanely applying pointless stereotypes and nothing more.

 

[Tough Guy]

And this has absolutely nothing to do with this.

What motivated this woman (and the hordes of other women) to file such lawsuits is pretty relevant, in my opinion. Culture matters.

There's a real issue that even Apple acknowledged and finally started dealing with. Trying to make it sound like it's some gender or cultural things is just inanely applying pointless stereotypes and nothing more.

It's neither inane nor pointless, but whatever. I guess some people are easily offended.

 

[tooloud10]

And that's not how iMessage is set up to work--you enable it and it appropriately chooses whether or not to send an iMessage to someone or basically to use SMS all on its own. That's the whole big point behind it is that it works transparently deciding for you what's right. And the issue is that in enough of these cases it wasn't deciding correctly when it was thinking that some numbers are still using iMessage when they weren't.

It doesn't work transparently--you can enable it, and then if you choose not to use it any more, you can disable it. Either way, it works exactly as you've told it operate.

 

[C DM]

What motivated this woman (and the hordes of other women) to file such lawsuits is pretty relevant, in my opinion. Culture matters.



It's neither inane nor pointless, but whatever. I guess some people are easily offended.

It's irrelevant because there's an issue that plenty of people have been experiencing and Apple has been ignoring for years and it got down to something like this happening to finally force them to take a more serious look at it and actually deal with it. Who filed a lawsuit and where makes absolutely no difference in any of that.

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It doesn't work transparently--you can enable it, and then if you choose not to use it any more, you can disable it. Either way, it works exactly as you've told it operate.

Seems like a misconception about iMessage is in place. It's there to manage both iMessage and SMS together--it's not a service that's there to turn on and just use iMessage and then turn off to use SMS, it's designed and basically marketed to correctly handle both transparently to the user.

 

[kdarling]

No, the iMessage feature most certainly does not send texts to non-iOS users. The iMessage function is not the same as the SMS function. It seems apparent that some users think they're sending an SMS when they're actually sending an iMessage; this has nothing to do with Apple.

As several others have also pointed out, you do not seem to know how iMessage works.

Once it's turned on, iMessage decides whether to use data or an SMS to sent a text message.

It decides this mostly by checking whether or not the target id/number has been registered with Apple as an iOS device with iMessage enabled.

--

Surely you've noticed that some messages are green bubbles and some are blue? Don't you know what that means?

If not, read this Apple explanation about iMessage:

How do I know if my message used SMS/MMS or iMessage?
You can tell which type of message you're sending by the color of the Send button and text bubble.

• SMS/MMS: Send button and text bubbles are green.
• iMessage: Send button and text bubbles are blue.

http://support.apple.com/en-us/HT3529

 

[Tough Guy]

It's irrelevant because there's an issue that plenty of people have been experiencing and Apple has been ignoring for years and it got down to something like this happening to finally force them to take a more serious look at it and actually deal with it. Who filed a lawsuit and where makes absolutely no difference in any of that.

By your own admission, "plenty of people" have experienced this "problem" and yet it was a North American female that decided to file a lawsuit.

Litigation culture cannot be divorced from this issue, no matter how hard you try.

 

[C DM]

By your own admission, "plenty of people" have experienced this "problem" and yet it was a North American female that decided to file a lawsuit.

Litigation culture cannot be divorced from this issue, no matter how hard you try.

Someone ended up doing it. Thankfully someone actually took some steps that ended up pushing Apple to do something after all these years.

 

[ecraiger]

Stop trying to sue people. Like the guy who tried to sue apple because the system software update auto downloaded to his phone. Really?

Maybe because he had a 250MB data plan and the update was 1GB? How would you like that?

 

[ecraiger]

Apple users had every means to remove iMessage when they left the ecosytem. Why is Apple expected to support former customers once they have made the choice to leave? You have to pay, to play...

Because I dunked my iPhone in the swimming pool on accident and decided to get an Android. If my phone still worked, I wouldn't be getting an Android; hence I had no choice to remove myself from the ecosystem. No, I didn't have an iPad or iPod.

Not everyone is an Apple flameboy and will go back to iPhone after their phone is prematurely deceased. Stop being naive.

 

[ecraiger]

Wow! Maybe I can sue Chevrolet because all those old parts I bought when I had that old Chevy don't fit my new Ford!

You had no reasonable expectation that your Chevy part would fit your Ford. You have an expectation that something inherent to your contract and the phone's limitation would work properly.

Let me put it in Apple terms:
1) have an Apple 30 pin (SMS) to lighting (iMessage) charger adapter
2) charger works great when plugged in to lightning (iMessage) port
3) 30 pin (SMS) doesn't work on an iPhone 4S when I remove the 30 pin to lightning (iMessage) adapter
4) Why is my charger not charging my iPhone 4S when I remove the adapter (iMessage)?

You pay for something to be current and backwards compatible, then it should work in compatibility mode.

 

[Swytch]

The problem is that iMessage simply attaches to regular SMS and takes over that, there isn't a service you stop using per se because people still always simply messaged you using your phone number which is what SMS uses and what iMessage ends up taking over. So when you are not using it anymore the takeover should be done and simply regular SMS would be used with people still using the same old phone number they always used for you, whether you had iMessage or not. That's where the difference is and that's where the issue lies. All these other analogies are simply not the same because they don't have one service using the same identifier as another service as is the case for iMessage simply using your phone number as SMS does and selecting which one should be used on its own based on what Apple servers say.

this is true, and points to exactly why it is understandable that apple did not notice it would cause a problem because nothing like this had been done before. But there is still no law that Apple has broken - again because nothing like this has ever come up before. And it is still essentially the same as other messaging services, and if you make a decision that Apple owes customers compensation for this, then the same could be said for Skype and other instant message services.

In fact, Skype is really no different - you can Send and receive SMS Text messages to your Skype Phone Number which you do not have to have a cell phone or any phone for that matter to use skype - just a computer. if you cancel skype - SMS text messages could still be sent to your number - but would not get forwarded to your skype account and would not be delivered.

 

[C DM]

this is true, and points to exactly why it is understandable that apple did not notice it would cause a problem because nothing like this had been done before. But there is still no law that Apple has broken - again because nothing like this has ever come up before. And it is still essentially the same as other messaging services, and if you make a decision that Apple owes customers compensation for this, then the same could be said for Skype and other instant message services.

In fact, Skype is really no different - you can Send and receive SMS Text messages to your Skype Phone Number which you do not have to have a cell phone or any phone for that matter to use skype - just a computer. if you cancel skype - SMS text messages could still be sent to your number - but would not get forwarded to your skype account and would not be delivered.

Whatever laws might or might not be involved, it's safe to say that vast majority of people who have experienced this issue or might experience this issue would primarily be happy if Apple just faced it and fixed it. If it takes a lawsuit for that to happen after all the years, then that's sad, but that's unfortunately the reality--at least there's something there that is finally forcing the issue.

As for Skype and all those comparisons, once again, they aren't the same. Yes, you can send this and that which is similar, but what's not similar is that iMessage attaches to an existing cell phone number, not a number that doesn't have a cell service associated with it (like Skype) or anything like that. There's a big difference there when it comes to that and using another essentially virtual number that doesn't necessarily have anything associated with it (like what Skype would involve). The comparisons/analogies fall short on that aspect of it, and that aspect of it is a rather important one as people have devices that are associated with wireless services with those phone numbers that are being used.

 

[kaielement]

Let's think about it this way if I owned a Honda civic and bought a ton of parts for the car then one day decided to go out and buy a Toyota Corolla and expected all my Honda civic parts to fit my Toyota then sued Honda for not warning me that all my parts may not fit my new car is exactly how I feel this is and its ridiculous. I hope this law sure gets thrown out.

 

[C DM]

Let's think about it this way if I owned a Honda civic and bought a ton of parts for the car then one day decided to go out and buy a Toyota Corolla and expected all my Honda civic parts to fit my Toyota then sued Honda for not warning me that all my parts may not fit my new car is exactly how I feel this is and its ridiculous. I hope this law sure gets thrown out.

Let's not think about it using analogies that don't apply or are basically incorrect, as that's not helpful. Not only that but this has already been brought up and addressed pretty much in almost exactly the same terms: https://forums.macrumors.com/posts/20352086/

 

[kaielement]

Let's not think about it using analogies that don't apply or are basically incorrect, as that's not helpful. Not only that but this has already been brought up and addressed pretty much in almost exactly the same terms: https://forums.macrumors.com/posts/20352086/

Sorry to offend you. But I do really hope this lady doesn't win. I mean if she had a really had a lawsuit yes then by all means sue. But in this case I don't think she does. This is really just a case of not knowing how your phone works. So if you don't like what I said I am truly sorry to offend you.

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Can it be de-activated by the user? Referring to SMS being overtaken by imessage.

Yes it can I do it all the time. I sometimes activate it when I don't have cell phone service and only wifi. I normally don't have it on at all. And I also have in the past switched to android and come back to apple and have had no issues ever. This is such a non issues this case needs to be thrown out.

 

[C DM]

Sorry to offend you. But I do really hope this lady doesn't win. I mean if she had a really had a lawsuit yes then by all means sue. But in this case I don't think she does. This is really just a case of not knowing how your phone works. So if you don't like what I said I am truly sorry to offend you.

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Yes it can I do it all the time. I sometimes activate it when I don't have cell phone service and only wifi. I normally don't have it on at all. And I also have in the past switched to android and come back to apple and have had no issues ever. This is such a non issues this case needs to be thrown out.

Why would you offend me or anyone?

As for the lawsuit, specifics of that paricular individual case aside, the main good part of it is that it's finally getting Apple to face the issue and deal with it. As has been explained more than enough in more than enough posts, it's not about someone not knowing how the phone works, it's about an issue on Apple's side of things as far as how iMessage is implemented. Plenty of people ran into it even when they did everything Apple said they should do.

 

[Jmausmuc]

How did he determine this? Did he call Apple up and they said "I don't care." and then hung up on him, and then blocked his number? We must know!

No they said nothing could be done about it unless he put his sim in another iPhone and went through a length process which ins’t exactly easy.
We ended up using my iPhone to fix the issue but not everyone has a spare iPhone available.

Also, it took them like 2 years to come up with a solution.

So you think it would be ok for google to do the same?

 

[iososx]

It seems the vicious public attack launched following Steve's "going thermonuclear" comment against Google has soured the good Karma Apple once enjoyed. Followed closely by Apple's attack and law suit against Samsung, and their keen desire to destroy the competition has left them scrambling.