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Apple Will Start Paying Ireland Billions Owed in Back Taxes 'Early Next Year'

MH01 said:
What....But but ... so many here told me apple owes nothing .... this must be fake news !!
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Yeah.... those roads, infrastructure, schools , hospitals blah blah .... build themselves ;)
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No - the headline to this thread is WRONG - the funds go into an escrow account pending the ongoing legal wrangling.
 
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gavroche said:
I agree with you that this is the issue... the nature of the EU agreements among member States. And this is a battle they they are duking out presently. And i have no issue with how it shakes out, regardless of who wins. Its with all the people that have the knee-jerk reaction to Apple be crooks or ripping people off that i have an issue with. And this isn't a defense by me of Apple in particular... its of any company that does what is asked of it by a country, but then has the goal posts moved.
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Well, this is a different argument for a different day... :p Until things change, they are what they are and people can "vote" with their feet. For example, i have three daughters. None are in school yet. But when they are, i'll be paying extra attention to the quality of schools. If i don't like the way the local ones are run.. i can either try to get involved and change things... or i can move my family to somewhere that has schools i like better. Many people do choose to do this.
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Fixed that for you

Many people who can afford to choose to do this
 
H2SO4 said:
Eh, what?
Have the courage of your convictions then and don't use said roads, infrastructure, schools , hospitals blah and blah.
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Oh the old “roads wouldn’t exists without the government stealing from the people at gunpoint” arguement. And there are such things as private schools and private hospitals. Its a wonder they exist.
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Mike MA said:
You know it better, don’t you?
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I know what to do with my own money better than you or the government telling me what to do with it, yes.
 
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gavroche said:
Don't know about in the world... but look at this article:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/christ...-biggest-companies-pay-in-taxes/#279fbbf92f51

Says that Apple was the biggest taxpayer... paying $15.8 billion in taxes....
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Thats irrelevant, its not how many$ do they pay, its are they paying the same level ( % ) as the small businesses .

So assessed on that basis it may be that Apple is actually under taxed by billions of dollars. Worse though is if Apple paid the taxes at the same rate, those extra billions could result in lower taxes for everyone else, thats the worst kind of socialism, taxing the poor/many for the benefit of the rich/few.
 
sir1963nz said:
Fixed that for you

Many people who can afford to choose to do this
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Nah, you don't need much money to move. We didn't have it when we moved from California to here. In fact... it lowered our cost of living so it actually helped our financial situation.
But this argument, in my humble opinion, is the wrong one to make. Most people like to complain, and lay blame, but don't actually do anything proactive about anything. The best example i can think of for this is the whole Colin Kaepernick debate. He had a valid issue, and inspired a lot of people. But then after the election the admitted that he didn't even vote. And that lost a LOT of credibility and a lot of support. Step one always has to be to vote, if not actually try to get on a school board or help vote for school board members that you agree with.
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sir1963nz said:
Thats irrelevant, its not how many$ do they pay, its are they paying the same level ( % ) as the small businesses .

So assessed on that basis it may be that Apple is actually under taxed by billions of dollars. Worse though is if Apple paid the taxes at the same rate, those extra billions could result in lower taxes for everyone else, thats the worst kind of socialism, taxing the poor/many for the benefit of the rich/few.
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Ugh... do you really have to argue semantics and fight everything! Ok, i get it that YOU do not feel that its relevant that they paid more taxes than any other taxpayer. I get it that to YOU thats not important. I was just putting an article from Forbes out there, where they said they were the biggest taxpayer. Take it up with them. Its their article, and what they said. And take it up with Congress, because they are the ones that write the tax code that results in different taxpayers paying different percentages. I'm done fighting with people that have to disagree with everything you say.
The sun outside looks a bit yellowish to me. But feel free to tell me i'm wrong and what color you think it is. :confused:
 
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miniyou64 said:
Oh the old “roads wouldn’t exists without the government stealing from the people at gunpoint” arguement. And there are such things as private schools and private hospitals. Its a wonder they exist.
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I know what to do with my own money better than you or the government telling me what to do with it, yes.
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Where as the US health system costs more than double than single payer state run healthcare and still ends up with an infant mortality rate higher too.

And let me guess, you are fine with the government gun pointed at people to pay for the military. And why stop there, why should counties tax anyone, you want police to solve a crime, why don't you pay 100% of the costs, or do you simply prefer local government guns pointed at your neighbours to help you out financially ? I also guess you don't like it when various government (state, local, federal) use your money for disaster relief.

AND if you are so against the taxes, why do you still live there, there are a number of countries that are tax free. Oh wait I see it now, you freely stay there and pay taxes because the benefits you receive outweigh the downsides
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gavroche said:
Nah, you don't need much money to move. We didn't have it when we moved from California to here. In fact... it lowered our cost of living so it actually helped our financial situation.
But this argument, in my humble opinion, is the wrong one to make. Most people like to complain, and lay blame, but don't actually do anything proactive about anything. The best example i can think of for this is the whole Colin Kaepernick debate. He had a valid issue, and inspired a lot of people. But then after the election the admitted that he didn't even vote. And that lost a LOT of credibility and a lot of support. Step one always has to be to vote, if not actually try to get on a school board or help vote for school board members that you agree with.
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Ugh... do you really have to argue semantics and fight everything! Ok, i get it that YOU do not feel that its relevant that they paid more taxes than any other taxpayer. I get it that to YOU thats not important. I was just putting an article from Forbes out there, where they said they were the biggest taxpayer. Take it up with them. Its their article, and what they said. And take it up with Congress, because they are the ones that write the tax code that results in different taxpayers paying different percentages. I'm done fighting with people that have to disagree with everything you say.
The sun outside looks a bit yellowish to me. But feel free to tell me i'm wrong and what color you think it is. :confused:
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Its very simple.
If assessed properly Apple should have paid 50 Billion in taxes but only paid 25 Billion because that still makes them the biggest tax payer thats OK with you. Lets forget about the other 25 Billion because we can tax others (eg YOU) a little bit more (or at minimum not give them the tax cuts they deserve) to make up for it. Thats the thing with taxes, if you don't pay, some one else does. Now if you feel that Apple should pay less taxes then I suggest you give them the difference out of YOUR pocket, just don't expect me or anyone else to do they same after all "I know what to do with my money better than you, or Apple" and I don't want to subsidise either of you.
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miniyou64 said:
Oh the old “roads wouldn’t exists without the government stealing from the people at gunpoint” arguement. And there are such things as private schools and private hospitals. Its a wonder they exist.
[doublepost=1512427143][/doublepost]

I know what to do with my own money better than you or the government telling me what to do with it, yes.
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And yet when something goes wrong you would be one of the first to demand the government helps you.
 
gavroche said:
... The best example i can think of for this is the whole Colin Kaepernick debate. He had a valid issue, and inspired a lot of people. But then after the election the admitted that he didn't even vote. And that lost a LOT of credibility and a lot of support. ...
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I think understand what you are saying but I’m not sure if Kaepernick is a good example because he intentionally didn’t vote for either candidates ...it wasn’t due to laziness. (I guess he could have intentionally spoiled his ballot)

He wasn’t ‘just complaining’, he did make the effort to try make a difference in the way he thought was right; maybe not running for trustee of schoolboard anything, but he did try to do something about what he believed in.
 
gavroche said:
I never said they don't pay for anything. I made a good natured post (hence the grinning face) that pointed out that the Federal Government has little to do with all of the things listed in that original post. You then felt the need for some reason to be very condescending to me.
The fact remains that the majority of funding for all of those things is local. Sure, someone can post a link to a government website showing that the Federal Government has an educational grant program... but does that mean they build and maintain local elementary, middle, or high schools? Sure, someone can point to some federal programs that offer funding for specific health initiatives, but does that mean the federal government is in the business of building local hospitals? Or maintaining or operating them? Sure, you pointed to an article showing a Federal program to help with a few specific highway programs.... but does that mean the Federal Government builds and maintains local roads.
See chart below. Of 4.12 million miles, the Federal Government is responsible for roughly 3%... just 3%! And this principally Interstate highways, and parks, etc.
So... between your assertion that the Federal Government pays for roads, and my assertion that local governments do.. I'll stand by mine.
But if you want to have a decent discussion in the future... try to not start out each post by being so condescending. Even in situations where you could be correct in a debate, you won't persuade anyone to your link of thinking if you completely insult them at the go.

View attachment 740228
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I guess that is where things got sideways: "Aside from the fact that most of the things listed in his analogy aren't even paid for by Federal Income Taxes" - suggested to me that you were saying that federal tax dollars don't pay for roads, schools and hospitals. I'll take your word that you meant to say federal tax dollars don't pay for all of the roads, etc.

I think you are overlooking the difference between the responsibility to build roads and paying for the roads. Recent numbers show that Federal spending on roads is about 1/3 of the total spent (States pay for 2/3). So, a bit different from the 3% statistic you used. The difference is my stat is for the percentage of funding, and your is the percentage "responsible for" - different things.

Regardless, I do apologize for any ruffled feathers - it was not my intention. This is way off topic to boot, so back to your normally scheduled program...
 
ryanayr said:
Apple pays just £12m UK tax on £2bn profit: Miserly bill is almost £400million short of the figure tech giant should have paid
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To be fair, I bet they paid way more than £400 million in UK VAT. And also income taxes on all the salaries paid to their UK staff, business rates on their premises, etc.
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SBlue1 said:
Well feel free to move to a country where there are little to no taxes like Somalia, Ghana or Haiti and tell us about the quality of living over there.
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Err, what?! Ghana may not be a particularly rich country, but it is a democracy with both a free, government-funded education system and universal healthcare. People DO pay taxes there.

It is actually quite a respected country by African standards. Former secretary-general of the UN, Kofi Annan, was Ghanaian. Your comparison with Somalia is way off the mark!
 
Reason077 said:
To be fair, I bet they paid way more than £400 million in UK VAT. And also income taxes on all the salaries paid to their UK staff, business rates on their premises, etc.
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Err, what?! Ghana may not be a particularly rich country, but it is a democracy with both a free, government-funded education system and universal healthcare. People DO pay taxes there.

It is actually quite a respected country by African standards. Former secretary-general of the UN, Kofi Annan, was Ghanaian. Your comparison with Somalia is way off the mark!
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Completely irrelevant, ALL companies have to pay taxes, wages and VAT.

Lets frame it this way, Apple paid all of its taxes and was then given a £400 Million subsidy not available to any other company.

Or let us put it another way, Apple would be the first to complain if they had to pay £400 Million EXTRA tax compared to any other company that was earning the same as them.

The other thought is, yes Ireland, you can do what ever you like, the EU will take the difference , so if Ireland chooses to under tax Apple by £400 Million the EU will take that money instead and share it with the other EU members.
 
This again shows how confident Apple is... I trust this company, and finding a loophole in the law is not evasion..
 
Apple paid what Ireland asked for. If they want the back taxes, the EU should be going after Ireland instead.
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miniyou64 said:
Commies are out in full force today. I’m being told that NOT paying taxes is theft. Wow.
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Yep. The money is the people's money that the government is grabbing. So if anything, taxes themselves are theft.
 
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gavroche said:
You guys really are straying off course! :D
Aside from the fact that most of the things listed in his analogy aren't even paid for by Federal Income Taxes (County property taxes and local funds do)... that is a completely different argument. That is an argument about what kinds of taxation there should be, at what tax rate, etc. This case is about one Country choosing a taxation scheme, reaching agreement with a company... and then having a third party come along and not agree with it. That is what the argument is about....
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No it's not. Hence Apple paying up. If it was all above board they'd not be releasing a penny.
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miniyou64 said:
Oh the old “roads wouldn’t exists without the government stealing from the people at gunpoint” arguement. And there are such things as private schools and private hospitals. Its a wonder they exist.
[doublepost=1512427143][/doublepost]

I know what to do with my own money better than you or the government telling me what to do with it, yes.
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Which is fine, but on your way to the private ones, don't use the public ones. Also can't remember the last time I saw private street lights and private police.
I prefer to pay, yeah great. When you get burgled, don't call the police, call your brother and sister and go make a citizens arrest. Then try them in a private kangaroo court and lock up the perpetrators in your private jail.
 
H2SO4 said:
No it's not. Hence Apple paying up. If it was all above board they'd not be releasing a penny.
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But thats not what he was talking about. So dont tell me he wasnt straying off course.
And glad to know you understand what an escrow account is... and why money is going there and not to the government... (because a final ruling has not been made).... and that you have tried and convicted them already.

Please go read all the posts, where people have a fair amount of intelectual debate about the complex issues involved in this case... ponder it... then maybe you can return and contribute more than just Apple hate.
 
sir1963nz said:
And neither of those "facts" will change.
Over the years, Apple has done over NZ$4.5 Billion worth of sales in New Zealand and has paid $0 in taxes because they run their business out of Australia.

Given their margins, thats about $1.5 Billion profit with $0 taxes paid in the country where they make the money.
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I am not sure if you are intentionally attempt to mislead folks or if it is simply the way you are wording your reply. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, but the fact is that Apple paid taxes on its profits, as it does everywhere. Because of the Australia and New Zealand tax structure, those payments ( a huge amount, last year I believe it was $146 million dollars in taxes) go to Australia. So, Apple isn't avoiding paying taxes on its income, it simply went to Australia, not New Zealand, as reported in the media.
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MH01 said:
But they are not , check your facts
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Indeed Apple is the largest taxpayer in the world and US. Here's just one article, by an Apple critic no less, who argues Apple should pay even more, but he concedes Apple is the largest taxpayer in the world by far and pays an effective worldwide rate of 26% !

http://thetechnalyzer.com/apple-is-the-largest-taxpayer-in-the-world/
 
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miniyou64 said:
Oh the old “roads wouldn’t exists without the government stealing from the people at gunpoint” arguement. And there are such things as private schools and private hospitals. Its a wonder they exist.
[doublepost=1512427143][/doublepost]

I know what to do with my own money better than you or the government telling me what to do with it, yes.
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Yes, I think this is the very opinion of nearly everybody including myself. But on the other hand not the way a social system is working and which you are benefiting from. Different people do have different needs, but all have to be covered by the state authorities.
 
miniyou64 said:
Because humans can only build things of value when bureaucrats extort their money and decide that for them?
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Do tell..... what have you contributed our daily society that others use on our daily basis .... that you use. Each day you commute , use a road , have your garbage disposed of, can flush your toilet etc.... who do you think pays for that ?

I use the London Underground on a daily basis.... let's all stop Paying taxes and see how the commute goes ... I'm intrigued how you think the social infrastructure around your daily basis got there .... which you take for granted, like the ability to post opinions on a website . You do realise in most countries the government provides electricity, telecommunications .... which includes the internet ...
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beanbaguk said:
Hilarious!



Commies! Hilarious. How do you expect things to get paid? Roads, schools, libraries, underground infrastructure....or do you expect things to "just happen"?
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Sounds like mommy or daddy pay for everything , or the state..... all the other stuff is just there, by magic :p
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miniyou64 said:
No. I dont. I don’t choose to pay for those services, so I do not want them.
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So you don't work? Or do you work from your room? Cause you can't commute without using those services .

And you don't use water or electricity I also assume ?

Please please explain how you don't use services provided by your council .... intrigued .

Truth be told, you don't understand what a communist is , both communists and capitalists pay for services .....
 
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Yes yes. Apple/Ireland must have been innocent in all of this. It's why Apple suddenly jumped ship and moved to Jersey.
 
LOL, taxes are, by definition, "total political crap." The taxes I owe surely are. Thanks, for you input, Timmy!
 
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