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The EU General Court today overturned a ruling by the European Commission stating that Apple should pay 13 billion euros ($14.5 billion) in tax to the Irish government.

The court sided with Apple, and said the EU authority, led by antitrust chief Margrethe Vestager, had failed to show Ireland's tax arrangements with the company were illegal state aid. Today's decision can be appealed.

Both Apple and Ireland appealed the original 2016 ruling, which stated that Apple owed the country over 13 billion euros in tax payments because the arrangements between the two countries were unfair.

In today's ruling, the General Court stated:
"By today's judgement, the General Court annuls the contested decision because the Commission did not succeed in showing to the requisite legal standard that there was an advantage."


In 2016, Apple CEO Tim Cook called the EC's original decision "total political crap" and said that Apple believed it would be reversed. "The decision is wrong, and it's not based on law or facts, it's based on politics. And I think it's very important that we stand up and say that very loudly," said Cook at the time.

In an emailed statement to Bloomberg, Apple said that it welcomed today's ruling.

Note: Due to the political or social nature of the discussion regarding this topic, the discussion thread is located in our Political News forum. All forum members and site visitors are welcome to read and follow the thread, but posting is limited to forum members with at least 100 posts.

Article Link: Apple Wins Backing of EU General Court Over 13 Billion Euro Tax Bill
 
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Puppuccino

macrumors 6502
Sep 24, 2019
450
429
United Kingdom
No, no, no. Stop right there Ireland.

If you're going to be a hotspot for big corporations due to your attractive tax laws then you don't get to pick and chose when companies like Apple say they don't want to pay.

The whole system needs rebuilding. Apple and others don't pay enough tax, but politicians aren't changing laws because it means they too can also reap the rewards of not paying tax.

The Panama Papers exposed all that years ago.
 

alias99

macrumors 6502
Nov 3, 2010
317
85
No, no, no. Stop right there Ireland.

If you're going to be a hotspot for big corporations due to your attractive tax laws then you don't get to pick and chose when companies like Apple say they don't want to pay.

The whole system needs rebuilding. Apple and others don't pay enough tax, but politicians aren't changing laws because it means they too can also reap the rewards of not paying tax.

The Panama Papers exposed all that years ago.

Apple never said they didn't want to pay what Ireland asked them in reference to their "attractive tax laws". They always did. They refused to pay what the EU said they should pay as that's not the deal they agreed to.

As for the system, yes if they want them to pay more, change the law.
 

malkovich87

Suspended
May 13, 2020
157
263
This is great news - both for Apple and for Ireland.

😎🇮🇪☘

this is devastating news for the EU and just shows that the EU is yet another tax haven. But it was to be expected - the ruling isn't final and the EU will most certainly appeal.
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Apple never said they didn't want to pay what Ireland asked them in reference to their "attractive tax laws". They always did. They refused to pay what the EU said they should pay as that's not the deal they agreed to.

As for the system, yes if they want them to pay more, change the law.

Apple paid 0.05% tax in Ireland and claimed they'd thought that was normal. Regular corporate tax in Ireland is 12.5%. They've been evading taxes left and right and trust me on this: the final court ruling will not be in their favour.
 

johannnn

macrumors 68000
Nov 20, 2009
1,965
1,841
Sweden
No, no, no. Stop right there Ireland.

If you're going to be a hotspot for big corporations due to your attractive tax laws then you don't get to pick and chose when companies like Apple say they don't want to pay.
Time to read what actually happened. Ireland liked their relationship with Apple, and was satisfied with the low tax that they paid. It is the EU that didn't like it

/EU citizen.
 

jlc1978

macrumors 68040
Aug 14, 2009
3,928
2,352
Apple paid 0.05% tax in Ireland and claimed they'd thought that was normal. Regular corporate tax in Ireland is 12.5%. They've been evading taxes left and right and trust me on this: the final court ruling will not be in their favour.

Ireland made a deal to get Apple to locate there, something to that is very common, even in the EU whether via tax breaks or subsidies. It's only bad when someone else does it. Other EU states were upset and tried to undo the deal and the court said no.
 

vladi

macrumors 6502a
Jan 30, 2010
798
425
A victory for common sense. Apple and Ireland made a mutually beneficial deal and Ireland is trying to build a strong economy for itself.

Great. Then they should give back all 40 billions of Euros they took from EU before they became the member state and agreed to play by the rules. They have Apple now. It's beyond obvious that Ireland did something they were never allowed to do, ruling doesn't even state what they did is legal it only states that incompetent commission did't prove the benefits which they surely will next time around.

And Cook as representative of multi-billion global conglomerate calling this a political game when at the same time that multi-billion conglomerate has a PO box in Lichtenstein for all of the iTunes sales in order NOT to pay tax money in US from the service.
 

SidricTheViking

macrumors 6502
Aug 20, 2014
273
293
No, no, no. Stop right there Ireland.

If you're going to be a hotspot for big corporations due to your attractive tax laws then you don't get to pick and chose when companies like Apple say they don't want to pay.

The whole system needs rebuilding. Apple and others don't pay enough tax, but politicians aren't changing laws because it means they too can also reap the rewards of not paying tax.

The Panama Papers exposed all that years ago.
To be fair, Ireland did make changes to its tax laws a few years ago in response to all of this.
 

vladi

macrumors 6502a
Jan 30, 2010
798
425
Ireland made a deal to get Apple to locate there, something to that is very common, even in the EU whether via tax breaks or subsidies. It's only bad when someone else does it. Other EU states were upset and tried to undo the deal and the court said no.

Nope, it doesn't work like that. What they did is basically this: As long as jlc1978 resides in Ireland, jlc1978 will pay only sales tax of 0.05% on any purchase while the rest of the residents pay 23% That's not how subsidies and tax breaks work.
 

Carnegie

macrumors 6502a
May 24, 2012
791
1,910
Apple never said they didn't want to pay what Ireland asked them in reference to their "attractive tax laws". They always did. They refused to pay what the EU said they should pay as that's not the deal they agreed to.

As for the system, yes if they want them to pay more, change the law.

Ireland already has changed its law which didn't tax (foreign corporations on) the income of non-Irish branches of Irish corporations. That's what this case was really about. Now that income is taxed.

The European Commission didn't like that Ireland previously didn't tax that income, but under EU rules Ireland was allowed to have such a policy. So the European Commission pretended that allowing Apple to determine profit allocation using a costs plus model was somehow in violation Ireland's own tax rules and thus an illegal deal under EU rules. That was wrong and the European Commission didn't demonstrate that such a profit allocation model was in violation of Ireland's own rules. The decision the Commission issued was just a mess.
 

SidricTheViking

macrumors 6502
Aug 20, 2014
273
293
Great. Then they should give back all 40 billions of Euros they took from EU before they became the member state and agreed to play by the rules. They have Apple now. It's beyond obvious that Ireland did something they were never allowed to do, ruling doesn't even state what they did is legal it only states that incompetent commission did't prove the benefits which they surely will next time around.

And Cook as representative of multi-billion global conglomerate calling this a political game when at the same time that multi-billion conglomerate has a PO box in Lichtenstein for all of the iTunes sales in order NOT to pay tax money in US from the service.
One of key issues is whether Ireland gave special treatment to Apple and didn’t offer similar treatment to other companies. Ireland has maintained it was the same for all. The EC failed to prove otherwise, it seems.
 

Osamede

macrumors 6502a
Oct 28, 2009
816
505
Time to read what actually happened. Ireland liked their relationship with Apple, and was satisfied with the low tax that they paid. It is the EU that didn't like it

/EU citizen.
You may want to learn your history and understand that Ireland today, transformed from poor farmers in an outpost island. is a result of decades of EU investment - in other words paid for by taxes from ordinary citizens and companies in other EU countries.

Just on a moral basis it’s unconscionable for Irish politicians to “repay” Europeans by offering rich companies an inside-EU tax loophole.
 

Carnegie

macrumors 6502a
May 24, 2012
791
1,910
Nope, it doesn't work like that. What they did is basically this: As long as jlc1978 resides in Ireland, jlc1978 will pay only sales tax of 0.05% on any purchase while the rest of the residents pay 23% That's not how subsidies and tax breaks work.

That's not what happened. That's not even what the European Commission claimed happened.

Ireland issued a tax ruling, what Ireland calls an advance opinion and what in the U.S. would be called a private letter ruling. This was an interpretation of how Irish tax law might apply to Apple's situation. It didn't establish some special low rate for Apple. Rather, it said that - under Irish law - Apple could determine profit allocation between non-Irish and Irish branches of Irish corporations by using a costs plus method. The Commission couldn't demonstrate that that interpretation was contrary to Irish law and thus a special deal. I read the Commission's decision, there was no there there.

The real issue was the quirk of Irish tax law which didn't tax the income of non-Irish branches of Irish corporations.
 
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malkovich87

Suspended
May 13, 2020
157
263
Time to read what actually happened. Ireland liked their relationship with Apple, and was satisfied with the low tax that they paid. It is the EU that didn't like it

/EU citizen.

the only problem: EU has anti-tax-haben rules and Ireland violated them. They can’t just set their taxes to almost zero to attracted business away from other regions within the EU.
 
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