Apple Wins Backing of EU General Court Over 13 Billion Euro Tax Bill

[WannaGoMac]

Hi, I thought this article in the Guardian was quite good in that respect:

Apple does not need to pay €13bn Irish tax bill, EU court rules

European commission failed to prove Apple had benefited from arrangement, court finds

www.theguardian.com

Thank you!

 

[294307]

No, no, no. Stop right there Ireland.

If you're going to be a hotspot for big corporations due to your attractive tax laws then you don't get to pick and chose when companies like Apple say they don't want to pay.

The whole system needs rebuilding. Apple and others don't pay enough tax, but politicians aren't changing laws because it means they too can also reap the rewards of not paying tax.

The Panama Papers exposed all that years ago.

The Republic of Ireland did not order Apple to pay €13 billion. The European Commission directed the Republic of Ireland to recover this amount as per the European Commission's view that it constituted unlawful state aid. Both Apple and the Republic of Ireland disagreed with that ruling and took the European Commission to court.

Obviously you won't know what the European Commission is either, so let me make that clear for you as well: it's the executive branch of the European Union.

 

[lkrupp]

It's sad.

Great so Apple can happily continue nickel and diming their customers whilst only paying centimes on the euro in taxes.

You are both free to leave the platform in protest.
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It ain't ever till the fat lady sings. In this case the fat lady is the Court of Justice.

 

[JosephAW]

Wondering how many billions it cost Apple to buy them off?

 

[nylonsteel]

aapl wins a ruling
good to see aapl win some rulings over vs news of losing rulings
even ireland was on our side "...Both Apple and Ireland appealed the original 2016 ruling..."
ridiculous lawsuit

 

[citysnaps]

Big hat-tip to both Ireland and Apple! And of course the EU General Court. Common sense prevails!

 

[826317]

No, no, no. Stop right there Ireland.

If you're going to be a hotspot for big corporations due to your attractive tax laws then you don't get to pick and chose when companies like Apple say they don't want to pay.

The whole system needs rebuilding. Apple and others don't pay enough tax, but politicians aren't changing laws because it means they too can also reap the rewards of not paying tax.

The Panama Papers exposed all that years ago.

At the end of the day, tax rates are just that, rates. It's all relative. A government should be able to negotiate a unique tax rate for any corporation that wants to come to its country. If they do are not able to negotiate a lower tax rate, then that company can simply set up shop elsewhere, causing billions to be lost in potential tax income for the state.

There is no reason why every company should pay the same tax rates. Just because a company makes a lot more money than another, doesn't mean they should pay the same rates when the absolute taxes paid amount to 1000 times that of another company, it just isn't fair.

 

[ElectricPotato]

...the European Commission didn't demonstrate that such a profit allocation model was in violation of Ireland's own rules.

Add some explosions, car chases and catch phrases and you have a summer blockbuster for release on AppleTV+.

 

[lolkthxbai]

this is devastating news for the EU and just shows that the EU is yet another tax haven. But it was to be expected - the ruling isn't final and the EU will most certainly appeal.
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Apple paid 0.05% tax in Ireland and claimed they'd thought that was normal. Regular corporate tax in Ireland is 12.5%. They've been evading taxes left and right and trust me on this: the final court ruling will not be in their favour.

tax evasion or tax minimization? there’s a difference and Apple, among other companies big and small, also try to minimize their tax burden as much as possible

 

[VictorTango777]

As for the system, yes if they want them to pay more, change the law.

It is a two-faced statement designed to look like the corporations are interested in reform while they secretly work behind the scenes to prevent reform.

Vote and make your voices heard (While we increase gerrymandering and voter suppression).
Come to this country legally (While we put even more restrictions on legal entry).
Save money to buy a house (While rent and home prices keep increasing beyond people's ability to save more).
If you don't like the tax laws, change them (While we lobby to prevent any reforms).
Read the f--kin manual (While the information you need is not even in the f--kin manual).

 

[SidricTheViking]

Great so Apple can happily continue nickel and diming their customers whilst only paying centimes on the euro in taxes.

It’s cents not centimes. I believe they were part of the French

That may be commonplace in the U.S where states compete for business with each other, but it's actually banned by the Treaty of Rome, i.e one of the founding documents of what would later evolve into the EU. If a company sets up in the country then they're supposed to have the same tax rate apply to them as every other company that's set up in the country.

At the time the Irish corporate tax was 16% (now 12.5%), but Apple got a special classified deal that gave them a tax rate of 0.05% and Ireland being in the EU common market they then routed all of their sales in the EU trough Ireland with this deal. Thus with the help of this classified deal, which was later leaked to the media, Apple was allowed to make profits in the billions in the EU and pay next to no tax on this profit.

As for what happened here Apple's extremely pricey lawyers were able to muddy the waters enough that there wasn't an absolute certainty in the eyes of the court that this gave Apple an absolute advantage over their competition in under what the Treaty of Rome prohibits. In other words they muddied the waters and convinced the court to apply a very narrow interpretation of the government assistance rules in the Treaty of Rome.

Yes, they got a special deal. No I e disputes that. What the EC seems to have gotten wrong is the idea that only Apple could get a special deal. Ireland has always maintained that the special tax exemptions were available to any company that qualified.

 

[cocky jeremy]

Good. If a country and a company make an agreement they mutually agree to, leave them alone.

 

[justperry]

This surprises me, but, it ain't over yet, the EU will appeal.

Years seem to fly, thought this started just 2 years ago.

 

[ruka.snow]

Completely false. The entire point of this ruling is to show the EXACT OPPOSITE: there was no sweetheart deal for Apple. They simply took advantage of what was legally available to any other business entity.

Now if there was a sweetheart-deal, EU regulators would rightly prevail over Ireland and Apple as that would be against EU-rules.

Why are you replying to me with this? I never said they has a sweetheart deal or anything even remotely like that. If Apple had correct away with breaking the rules I would be against them.

 

[whooleytoo]

A victory for common sense. Apple and Ireland made a mutually beneficial deal and Ireland is trying to build a strong economy for itself.

Not really. The ruling is that Ireland didn't grant Apple any competitive advantage, Ireland has always maintained there never was any deal.

It's probably the correct legal decision, and the loopholes in company/tax law here are already being closed.

But the scenario was never about Ireland giving a break on the tax they'd pay here. It was Ireland giving Apple a break on tax that should have been paid in other EU countries. The commission had little scope to go after Ireland/Apple for that, so they made a case instead that this tax break constituted state aid. It didn't, Ireland just has/had really loose, loophole-ridden tax laws.

 

[dannyyankou]

Don’t blame Apple, blame the tax code

 

[macfacts]

The loser in all this: usa

 

[Rainshadow]

No, no, no. Stop right there Ireland.

If you're going to be a hotspot for big corporations due to your attractive tax laws then you don't get to pick and chose when companies like Apple say they don't want to pay.

The whole system needs rebuilding. Apple and others don't pay enough tax, but politicians aren't changing laws because it means they too can also reap the rewards of not paying tax.

The Panama Papers exposed all that years ago.

newsflash, you don’t write all the rules in the world. You might be frustrated that Apple or any other company pays less or more taxes, but that’s usually up to the country they are operating in.

I don’t disagree they could pay more taxes, but the fact you don’t like the laws in other countries doesn’t mean everyone in the world should have what you would deem “fair” taxes. Shoot, what constitutes “fair” taxes anyway? Everyone pay the same? Proportional? Stepped? Make more/pay more? No one agrees on that inside a country. You can’t expect international law to make everyone happy.

 

[VictorTango777]

Don’t blame Apple, blame the tax code

What if Apple and other corporations lobby against reforms to the tax code?

 

[macfacts]

And this court ruling says that Ireland didn't violate anything.

No it doesn't. It says Eu didn't prove Ireland commited a crime. A technicality.

 

[NickName99]

Big surprise, it was lawful. It’s fun to read the angry comments by all the armchair lawyers. 😂

 

[dannyyankou]

What if Apple and other corporations lobby against reforms to the tax code?

I mean that’s their right to do that if they want.

I know this story is about Ireland and I’m bringing up a US example, but the Supreme Court ruled corporations are people and lobbying is protected as free speech. I disagree vehemently with that decision, but it is what it is and Apple would be acting within the law to lobby against tax reforms.

 

[VictorTango777]

I mean that’s their right to do that if they want.

I know this story is about Ireland and I’m bringing up a US example, but the Supreme Court ruled corporations are people and lobbying is protected as free speech. I disagree vehemently with that decision, but it is what it is and Apple would be acting within the law to lobby against tax reforms.

Your original statement was "Don’t blame Apple, blame the tax code". So if Apple and other corporations successfully lobby against reforms, who is to blame then?

 

[dannyyankou]

Your original statement was "Don’t blame Apple, blame the tax code". So if Apple and other corporations successfully lobby against reforms, who is to blame then?

Citizens United. And the politicians who allow themselves to be bought out by corporations in the first place.

 

[Carnegie]

The loser in all this: usa

The U.S. would, in at least one way, be the loser if the Commission's decision were ultimately upheld. It would mean tax revenue lost for the federal government. The money Apple would have to pay to Ireland would come out of what Apple would otherwise have to pay to the U.S.

No it doesn't. It says Eu didn't prove Ireland commited a crime. A technicality.

The General Court said that the Commission was wrong to declare that Apple's Irish subsidiaries were given a special advantage and thus state aid.