Apple Wins Initial Ruling

[Sun Baked]

....

If Apple win, it would be bad news for all.

It's almost as if people are saying...

That the public wants the story no matter who it hurts.

If the journalist is part of the criminal chain to get the story -- so what.

We want the news, and tell the victim to stop suing the reporters.

Corporate information, personal lives, who care -- it's news.

Plus it's the victims fault that they left the door open anyway... lock it next time, or buy a better lock.

 

[le_bigMac]

Apple loves you, Apple hates you

First of all, I'm appalled by the level of braindead legal mumbo jumbo being spewed out here. Only a few posters seem to have a handle on what laws actually exist and how they relate to Apple in this case. The rest of you are making my head spin!

But on to my main beef- what I haven't seen anyone mention is that Apple's relationship to the press is a love/hate relationship. Without it, where do you think all the buzz would come from (and no doubt rumors sites, even if you question their journalistic integrity are a BIG part of the buzz). I don't think it's a stretch to say Apple intentionally leaks info on upcoming products a week or two in advance of major announcements- this is savvy marketing 101. Apple will never 'chill' all news and rumors outlets because they would shoot their PR buzz machine right in the foot.

This news about Apple trying to find out who may have leaked this information is irrelevant to Asteroid. The general public or corporations knowing about a supposed hardware device is useless knowledge, it only would have been relevant had major details of such a products specifications been released such as photos or schematics. What this is about is most likely Apple sending a strong signal to those that try to divulge a little too much information, and know that they cannot be posting anything and everything they feel like in the future. In the end this is about control, Apple needs the media to spread the word but it really wants to decided what are 'good leaks' versus 'bad leaks'.

 

[martman]

first off: NO ONE WAS HURT
second: there is no criminal issue here it is civil
third : this is not about dammage but about Stevs's ego
fouth : The EFF is correct here
fith : litigation is a lame way to make money that drains the economy and produces nothing in return
six : Steve Jobbs is NOT God! Not everything he does is right
seven :this action is wrong
eight : Steve Wozniac is right
nine : it is not a trade secret if you show every one or sell it for $500 bucks a pop.
ten : this generates bad press for Apple and DOES affect their bottom line.

Apple is in the process of turning off long time fans, the open souce community, EFF types and people in general. Apple should not be embroiled in a conflict with the EFF they should be supporting the EFF.

 

[Lacero]

Winning a ruling or not, it'll just mean the rumor mill will go underground and be even harder for Apple in the future to trace the sources of leaks. If TS has not already wiped their computers clean or destroyed all material evidence, they should do it now.

 

[Sun Baked]

first off: NO ONE WAS HURT
second: there is no criminal issue here it is civil

The leaking of trade secrets is criminal activity, however you have to do something monumentally stupid to get arrested for it -- 2 years ago an Apple contractor did, and was arrested.

But in general the criminal courts are so backed up and lacking funds, that it's usually only the "big" cases that are prosecuted.

If all the leaks are traced to one to two persons, expect Apple to press for an arrest -- if the 20 or so John Does are seperate individuals, the chances of the prosecutor doing anything with that number of complaints are rather small.

So in an extreme case these sites are definitely "protecting" their sources.

And with all the bad press, having somebody arrested is definitely in Apple's best interest.

 

[Kingofthenerds]

Go Apple!

I love to see these rumor sites get whats coming to them. They always ruin all the suprises, and I just can't resist visiting them.

 

[Lacero]

I love to see these rumor sites get whats coming to them. They always ruin all the suprises, and I just can't resist visiting them.

I love your logic. 😛

 

[Counterfit]

nine : it is not a trade secret if you show every one or sell it for $500 bucks a pop.

It's a trade secret until the owner of the trade secret releases the info about the product. That hadn't happened yet, so it was indeed a trade secret. Also, even info about a product you're planning to sell for $0.01 is covered.

Thinksecret didn't sign any NDA. I don't care if they paid someone off who did sign an NDA, it's not Thinksecret's fault that Apple shares info with people who are easily paid off.

You might not, but the law does

(1) “Improper means” includes theft, bribery, misrepresentation, breach or inducement of a breach of a duty to maintain secrecy, or espionage through electronic or other means;

 

[c0n]

law

i love it how some people think that the law is universally correct.

 

[broken_keyboard]

Yall people are all brainwashed.

I am not brainwashed, I just see (I think) the bigger picture.

The ultimate purpose of the law is to ensure that good people are able to enjoy their life and pursue their dreams free from interference. "Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."

So if someone wants to start a computer company, and they're not hurting anyone else, not manufacturing bombs or anything, then the law should be on their side. If some little snot comes along and starts gleefully publishing their private information then the law should be against him.

The free speech laws must be looked at in the wider context of what the law is for, and not held as some kind of absolute in a vacuum.

 

[Hattig]

Here is my beliefs about this legal action as emailed to Apple :
Hello,
I am concerned about your litigation over trade secrets is being pubclised too much (http://news.com.com/Judge+delays+de...ts+case/2100-1030_3-5600366.html?tag=nefd.top). So below is what I believe should be done to protect the basic right of free spech in journalism under the first admendment and other acts/leglislation. What you are trying to do with Thinksecret,et all is unlawful and may violate the Berne copyright convention, ISP AUP policies, the First Admendment , Australian (a predecent about information sources known as the 'Gutnick' case) and United States law (as rumors are often republished) and state laws (the UTSA act) and hinders the ability of the media to report on speculation, unannounced products,etc and the sites you are pursuing are not journalists, and therefore cannot claim protection under the shield law.

I swear that the above is accurate and in my best beliefs.



What I would like to offer is that the lawsuits should be dropped, as per the beliefs of the Electronic Frontier Foundation and their attorney- "Apple is saying that trade secrets are an exception to reporters' privileges," said EFF attorney Kurt Opsahl. "If trade secrets are an exception, then a business writer should be concerned every time he or she gets a tip in their e-mail box."

So when does Mac OS X get a spell checker then?

If you are going to email something like this, at least don't make it look like you've typed it in some kind of idiot drunk rage. Click on the spell checker function please.

 

[deanbo]

Apple Sues

If this suit is to expose the people who brag to TS and the like, then maybe Apple should look at it's own security instead first then consider taking action against rumor sites.

It's rumors sites that help generate huge publicity for Apple, not to mention generate countless excitement that help make the Mac community largely what it is.

After having spent untold thousands of dollars on Mac equipment, and being an Apple shareholder, I think I have a right to know what Apple is up to with my money.

As for leaking info about an "audio breakout box", big deal. God knows how many other companies already have one and already guessed that this was coming.

Speculation about an "audio breakout box" from Apple would have halted me from purchasing the same equipment from elsewhere.

All I have seen is a rumored price, what it will contain in the way of ports and it's intended use.

Anybody would think TS had the instructions of how to build an exact duplicate of the thing in your own living room for under 10 bucks.

As for leaking trade secrets, perhaps you've never heard of patents and copyrights?

All this rumor did was confirm what anybody with half a brain could of figured out
anyway.

 

[carbonmotion]

I'm not surprised they won. The first amendment is about ensuring the government can't suppress criticism of it - it's not about publishing commercial in confidence information on web sites.

Historically it's very important that citizens be free to criticize the government. Trying to stretch such an important idea to cover Macintosh rumors demeans it I think.

This is bullshoot and you know it! Freedom of Information directly relates to the security of our state as a democracy. In this age, knowledge is power, freedom of knowledge is liberty. Thus, any steps against those two goals are steps toward tyranny and oppression.

 

[deanbo]

What is a trade secret Apple?

A trade secret can be any information that derives independent economic value from not being generally known or readily ascertainable. Among the things that can be trade secrets are a formula, pattern, compilation, program, device, method, technique, or process.

What economic value can be derived by the public from knowing that Apple is about to release an "audio breakout box"?

You can say what you like about rumor sites, only one company/man decides what and when something is released and it sure ain't ThinkSecret, making any posting by any website, pure speculation.

If you happen to be accurate with your speculation, then good for you. It's still only speculation. And ThinkSecret doesn't even have a 100% accuracy record, enforcing my point even further.

I've yet to know how you sue someone for speculating.

 

[broken_keyboard]

This is bullshoot and you know it! Freedom of Information directly relates to the security of our state as a democracy. In this age, knowledge is power, freedom of knowledge is liberty. Thus, any steps against those two goals are steps toward tyranny and oppression.

This is an equivocation on the word power. Only the government can force you to do anything. If someone from Apple walks up and starts telling you what to do, laugh in their face. Whereas the government guy will put handcuffs on you if you laugh.

This is the sense in which power is dangerous, and knowledge is not power in this sense. Thus privacy of information is not oppression.

 

[stevenPJ]

Has anyone here thought there may be a bit more to all this? For all the pontification about free speech and rights about this and that, has anybody considered the possibility that the person(s) releasing this information to TS AI et al two weeks or so before Apple launch a product, might be providing Apple's competitors with much more important information as well?

And much earlier, and for money.....

Of course that sort of thing doesn't happen, does it?

While to my tiny mind I have not seen any evidence suggesting this is happening, if my company only had a sub 10% market share and was dependant on "innovation" to stay ahead of the opposition and keep in business, I'd want to get rid of anyone releasing information they should'nt.

Its just common sense, I think.

 

[Squire]

True. Very, very true.

At its simplest level, you have an Apple employee telling a Mac site about unreleased products thereby limiting the "Wow!" factor at a keynote. But who knows? If a person is okay with breaking an NDA for reason 'A' they might also break it for reason 'B' at some point.

And if I were Steve Jobs, I'd do everything possible to uncover the identity of that rat. Perhaps that's why the 'Asteroid' was never released.

Squire

 

[FFTT]

Without these OPEN FORUMS

We might be rushing out to spend our hard earned dollars on a soon to be updated PowerMac

We might still believe Apple's claim that only Apple authorized
service technicians can open a Mac Mini, forcing us to pay more than double the going rate for a 1 GB RAM card.

In fact we might not even be aware of wonderful sites like XLR8yourmac
to help us repair and upgrade our own systems.

We might not be aware that Apple is having serious issues with
quality control including too much pink in their $1700 23" HD display.
Or that you can purchase a very good quality 24" HD from Dell
for $500. less.

And that many PowerBooks are being returned with a multitude of nagging problems.

These forums may be dubbed "rumor sites" but they have proven time and time again to be a respected and valuable, cutting edge news source.

Any attempt to control or suppress the content of these forums should not be taken lightly.

 

[Sun Baked]

And that many PowerBooks are being returned with a multitude of nagging problems.

These forums may be dubbed "rumor sites" but they have proven time and time again to be a respected and valuable, cutting edge news source.

Any attempt to control or suppress the content of these forums should not be taken lightly.

There is a big difference between the rumors sites -- that did some of the stuff Jack Campbell did by looking at some of the parts suppliers and speculate what a new cable or plastic box might mean.

And somebody that is soliciting people to break their NDAs, and using that information to post facts on their site.

Somehow I don't quite see the 2nd rumor site as being a "valuable" source of information -- since the same source that can be feeding someone hardware news could just as easily be feeding them "insider financial news" at the same time.

Why stop at a little innocent corporate espionage, when you can make some serious money with a little advanced financial news.

Not that the hardware news alone couldn't be used for some illicit stock trades, just buy the stock before you print the story.

Of course, as per your example -- rumor sites with forums will always prove to be invaluable in getting Apple to correct problems with their computers and customer service.

 

[anjaki]

I love your logic. 😛

It's got nothing to do with logic but with human nature.

These rumour sites are a bit like a car crash, everybody stands and stares and hates themselves for doing it.

 

[Sun Baked]

Interesting the AP new released an updated article...

Apple Suit Pits Web Reporters Against Trade Secret Protections

Rachel Konrad
The Associated Press
03-07-2005

...During a hearing Friday, Kleinberg appeared to take a dim view of the idea that the media have the right to publish information that could only have been provided by someone breaking the law.

"Theft and use of trade secrets is a crime -- a felony," said Kleinberg, who is expected to issue a final ruling this week. "Isn't there a balance ... between trade secrets and protections of journalists?"

Apple last year sued several unnamed individuals, called "Does," who leaked specifications about an upcoming music product, code-named "Asteroid," to independent Web site operators Monish Bhatia, Kasper Jade and Jason O'Grady...

...If they refuse to tell Apple attorneys the names of their sources, they could be subject to criminal violations of the U.S. Trade Secrets Act, and might not be protected by laws that ordinarily shield journalists...

...Apple is not unconcerned about the First Amendment implications, according to the company's attorney, George Riley, who questioned whether the Web site operators are truly journalists or merely people who "disseminated" information.

Riley said trade secrets were published verbatim and without analysis, providing little journalistic value but giving competitors information that could damage the company's finances.

"We're vitally concerned about the precedent this would set," Riley said in court Friday. "We didn't bring this case lightly."....

Sort of interesting that the judge is also looking at the criminal aspect of the case at the same time. 😱

 

[ipodmann]

Apple is doing this because they are embarrassed. i suspect they are not mad about TS coming out with news 5 days before the official announcement. They are mad when the rumor site talks about an item that never does come out. This tells the competition how much trouble Apple is having with the production of certain products.

This is becoming a very big story and I suspect that if Apple wins, we may see it go all the way to the Supreme Court.

 

[macmax77]

this rumors sites are free marketing, Apple should even leak the info and leave it at that...hehhehe

 

[FFTT]

I am deeply concerned when I see people voluntarily giving up what few
protections they have left under our constitution and bill of rights.

No one forces any of us to post in these forums.
We do so if we wish and I'm glad we are free to do so.

The best thing about an open forum is that we ARE free
to post opposing points of view without fear or repression
by those who would prefer to keep us silent.

Apple is trying to open a door.

A door that should be left undisturbed.

 

[Squire]

I am deeply concerned when I see people voluntarily giving up what few
protections they have left under our constitution and bill of rights.

No one forces any of us to post in these forums.
We do so if we wish and I'm glad we are free to do so.

The best thing about an open forum is that we ARE free
to post opposing points of view without fear or repression
by those who would prefer to keep us silent.

Apple is trying to open a door.

A door that should be left undisturbed.

You don't seem to be making a distinction between posting in forums such as this and giving away (or even selling) corporate secrets-- essentially, corporate espionage. They are two very different animals.

Squire