Apple Wins Initial Ruling

[timster]

I hope Apple have assessed the harm they are doing to themselves by pressing this action, versus the actual harm done to them by the leaks.

Already, on the basis of this suit, one business magazine is claiming Apple is becoming Microsoft, a theme the anti-corporate types over at Slashdot are also salivating over (an evil company interested in nothing but profit flexing its legal muscles).

Like most of you, I disagree that this is true, but mud sticks...

 

[FFTT]

Apple is questioning the legitimacy of on line web publications and their staff as professional journalists indicating that these forums are not entitled
to the same 1st amendment protections given to the mainstream media.

 

[Maestro64]

You can speculate whether this is good or bad for Apple and the rumor sites, and debate whether this has any affect on the 1st amendment.

However, if any of you have every owned, ran or been part of a company that makes their living off Intellectual Property or Trade Secrets you have to realize no matter what, Apple has to do this. Here is the simple truth, if information was leaked without their permission and they did nothing about it, it says one thing, they do not care or consider any of this information important to the company success.

You may say. so what, and you all argued this is going to hurt or help Apple depending on you point of view. For the most part I think everyone agrees this is pretty small issue in the big picture. Although, I'll tell you how this case affects the big picture for Apple.

If Apple does not take this seriously and fight to a win, loose or draw, it could affect their ability in the future to go after a more serious issue of trade secret thief or patent right infringement. Courts in the past have been unwilling to reward a company loses of trade secret thief or patent right infringements when they felt the company was not serious about protecting their property.

If you do not believe me, this happen to Xerox and Apple when Xerox tried to sue Apple 10 yrs later for taking the Mac GUI. The judge threw it out and said Xerox never made any effort to protect their property in the pass, therefore, they generally do not treat this information as confidential. So they were not eligible for loses.

No matter if Apple wins or looses this case, it sets a clear picture to the outside world that Apple treats their information as very important to the success of the company and they will do everything to protect it. So if in the future some other individual or company who hopes take advantage of Apple secrets can expect to have a fight on their hands and most likely loose.

If you do not believe me, speak with any lawyer who handle trade secrets, they will tell you to treat all company information as confidential. Then anytime you believe it has been breached, to fight it with due diligence, otherwise, you run the risk of loosing your ability to recoup looses when something more serious happen.

Argue all you want, unless Apple fights for what is theirs, there will not be an Apple in the future, nor your beloved rumor sites.

 

[Applespider]

Commercial trade secrets should not be covered under 'protection of sources of information' unless there is a public safety/interest in it. If Thinksecret had discovered that an Apple product was dangerous to public health to produce or to use, or if they discovered that Apple were using shady accounting, then they and their whistle-blower should be protected.

Announcing more or less complete details of new products before Apple's press launch is not a matter of public safety or public interests (if you think you should get advance notice as a shareholder, then go raise it at an AGM).
It does commercially damage Apple - we all 'knew' about a Mac mini, only the tiny size was a surprise. And those 2 weeks notice gave other PC manufacturers a chance to start considering their responses (and 2 weeks is a fair while in the tech market).

Speculation on new products isn't a crime but deliberately encouraging people to break an NDA is.

I think it's wrong to drag 'blogging' in general into this. Bloggers are not journalists - if the courts decide any other way, then any NDA isn't worth the paper it's written on. Any person subject to an NDA could merely hand info to any blogger and see it reported on. That's a ridiculous idea. If you think bloggers are journalists and should be entitled to the same protection, will you also be happy when they are sued for libel/slander/copyright infringments on images/text? Bloggers don't have the lawyers going over stories and advising like official sources do. With protection comes responsibility.

 

[Maestro64]

Oh, BTW if you do not think the two week early release of the $499 price tag did not hurt Apple. Look at the recent Dell ads, they now are offering a box for $399 after a $100 rebate, and they have been pastering this all over the media in the last few weeks. The two weeks gave them 2 extra weeks to come up with a plan, produce an ad and get to the masses to counter the affect of Apples $499. They also lowered the entry price on their website of the low end product from $599 to $549. I guess they could not get it down to the $499 price.

When you talking about selling a product to some where price is a deciding factor this does not help Apple when Dell will sell something for $100 less.

 

[bosrs1]

Oh, BTW if you do not think the two week early release of the $499 price tag did not hurt Apple. Look at the recent Dell ads, they now are offering a box for $399 after a $100 rebate, and they have been pastering this all over the media in the last few weeks. The two weeks gave them 2 extra weeks to come up with a plan, produce an ad and get to the masses to counter the affect of Apples $499. They also lowered the entry price on their website of the low end product from $599 to $549. I guess they could not get it down to the $499 price.

When you talking about selling a product to some where price is a deciding factor this does not help Apple when Dell will sell something for $100 less.

Another reason TS needs to be shut down. The people running it are like Movie Spoiler sites... they serve no real purpose for the world or the fans but to cause problems. Why can't you just wait for apple to release the product, why do fanboys have to gossipmonger?

 

[fatchuck]

Another reason TS needs to be shut down. The people running it are like Movie Spoiler sites... they serve no real purpose for the world or the fans but to cause problems. Why can't you just wait for apple to release the product, why do fanboys have to gossipmonger?

You know, I agree, they should shut down all the Apple rumor sites, including this one. Hell, even MacRumors encourage people to break their NDA - it says "Got Mac News/Rumors? Submit It." right on the front page.

Come to think of it, I wish they'd shut down all media coverage of Apple as well. With no media coverage, Apple could guarantee that no one would be able to leak TRADE SECRETS, because no one would publish them, and no buzz would be created.

 

[bosrs1]

You know, I agree, they should shut down all the Apple rumor sites, including this one. Hell, even MacRumors encourage people to break their NDA - it says "Got Mac News/Rumors? Submit It." right on the front page.

Come to think of it, I wish they'd shut down all media coverage of Apple as well. With no media coverage, Apple could guarantee that no one would be able to leak TRADE SECRETS, because no one would publish them, and no buzz would be created.

You know what I meant. I'm just tired of Apple being harmed by people claiming they're "helping" apple like TS. In now way does giving Apple's competitors an extra 2 weeks to deal with forthcoming products help apple.

 

[Rower_CPU]

You know, I agree, they should shut down all the Apple rumor sites, including this one. Hell, even MacRumors encourage people to break their NDA - it says "Got Mac News/Rumors? Submit It." right on the front page.

That's quite a far cry from TS':

Think Secret appreciates your insider information, tips, and confidential materials. ... When submitting confidential information relating to Apple, we do not recommend emailing from a .Mac/iTools mac.com email account.

We're asking for new/rumors - they were asking specifically for insider info and confidential materials. There's absolutely no comparison.

 

[bosrs1]

That's quite a far cry from TS':



We're asking for new/rumors - they were asking specifically for insider info and confidential materials. There's absolutely no comparison.

Exactly. Idle speculation such as what people here engage in is good. It provides Apple with ideas (cause you know they read these boards), provides hype for products announced, and provides a venue for Mac fans to gather.

TS wants Apple employees to divulge confidential info and then wants to distribute it. Which isn't exactly legal.

 

[fatchuck]

Oh, BTW if you do not think the two week early release of the $499 price tag did not hurt Apple. Look at the recent Dell ads, they now are offering a box for $399 after a $100 rebate, and they have been pastering this all over the media in the last few weeks. The two weeks gave them 2 extra weeks to come up with a plan, produce an ad and get to the masses to counter the affect of Apples $499. They also lowered the entry price on their website of the low end product from $599 to $549. I guess they could not get it down to the $499 price.

When you talking about selling a product to some where price is a deciding factor this does not help Apple when Dell will sell something for $100 less.

You know, you're absolutely right! Because of those leaks, Dell has been selling their top end systems, including 17" LCD's that work, for $1099, and all because Think Secret leaked the price of a high-end G5 at $2999. The worst part is, Dell's been doing it for months! Damn you Think Secret for selling Apple down the river on high-end machines!

When you talking about selling a product to some where price is a deciding factor this does not help Apple when Dell will sell something for $100 less.

You mean like they've been doing EVERY SINGLE DAY since 1995? Of course, I can see why Mac Fanboys will blame this particular instance on Think Secret even though Dell was doing it long before Think Secret even existed.

 

[fatchuck]

That's quite a far cry from TS':
We're asking for new/rumors - they were asking specifically for insider info and confidential materials. There's absolutely no comparison.

Sure there is - MacRumors is a consistent re-poster of everything Think Secret does. The people on this site get all huffy about Think Secret's methods, yet MacRumors ALWAYS, 100% OF THE TIME, re-reports what Think Secret reports. Clearly, if the staff and visitors of MacRumors had issues with Think Secret, they should either A) condemn them and cease re-reporting Think Secret stories, or B) **** and admit you enjoy them, while appreciating that it is Think Secret getting their hands dirty doing the hard work.

Of course, maybe rampant hypocrisy is what being an Apple fanboy means - condemn Think Secret while drooling over stories that they made possible for MacRumors to re-report.

 

[Applespider]

The difference is that once TS publish their info, it's in the public domain so others will link to it. Macrumors, people's blogs - even Macworld and the BBC may put a spin on it.

I had a friend once who had an 'inside contact' at a TV studio. She used to get preproduction videos for popular TV shows. Once, when the studio was about to change the direction of the show (for the worse), she posted about that. The program showed the alternate version.

People hosting rumor sites for anything (Macs, movies, TV shows, books) get all sorts of information. They have to review it and decide whether it's worth publishing - in full or in part. Perhaps had TS got the 'scoop' but rather than publish it as fact with full details, merely speculated that Apple were considering a headless Mac. The readers would have been impressed when it came to pass, it would have been vague enough that the mainstream press wouldn't have given it the time of day and when it actually happened, we'd all have been surprised and happy.

It had got to the point where TS came up with full specs and details, rather than just rumors and speculation.

 

[fatchuck]

It had got to the point where TS came up with full specs and details, rather than just rumors and speculation.

It didn't to seem to bother MacRumors any that they were promoting rumors gathered, in MacRumor User terms, through "illegal means.". Here's the original link to the breaking story:
https://www.macrumors.com/pages/2004/11/20041123012226.shtml

101 comments later, the buzz had been created.

As for doing it differently, no offense, but you sound like a Monday morning QB. They released this news honestly, without lying, manipulation, or spin, and after everyone drools over Asteroid, they get crucified by the Apple community.

Talk about spineless.

 

[bosrs1]

The difference is that once TS publish their info, it's in the public domain so others will link to it. Macrumors, people's blogs - even Macworld and the BBC may put a spin on it.

I had a friend once who had an 'inside contact' at a TV studio. She used to get preproduction videos for popular TV shows. Once, when the studio was about to change the direction of the show (for the worse), she posted about that. The program showed the alternate version.

People hosting rumor sites for anything (Macs, movies, TV shows, books) get all sorts of information. They have to review it and decide whether it's worth publishing - in full or in part. Perhaps had TS got the 'scoop' but rather than publish it as fact with full details, merely speculated that Apple were considering a headless Mac. The readers would have been impressed when it came to pass, it would have been vague enough that the mainstream press wouldn't have given it the time of day and when it actually happened, we'd all have been surprised and happy.

It had got to the point where TS came up with full specs and details, rather than just rumors and speculation.

I agree. Apple didn't seem to mind when TS was being vague and in fact it did help generate buzz at that point, but when they started posting exact specs they moved from rumors to Trade Secrets. Frankly I doubt Apple would keep hounding them if they went back to being vague.

 

[Sun Baked]

Sure there is - MacRumors is a consistent re-poster of everything Think Secret does. The people on this site get all huffy about Think Secret's methods, yet MacRumors ALWAYS, 100% OF THE TIME, re-reports what Think Secret reports. Clearly, if the staff and visitors of MacRumors had issues with Think Secret, they should either A) condemn them and cease re-reporting Think Secret stories, or B) **** and admit you enjoy them, while appreciating that it is Think Secret getting their hands dirty doing the hard work.

Of course, maybe rampant hypocrisy is what being an Apple fanboy means - condemn Think Secret while drooling over stories that they made possible for MacRumors to re-report.

Re-posters have immunity under Section 230 of the Communications Act, so it's real tough to prosecute them for republishing stuff that has already been published elsewhere.

However that doesn't negate the original publisher's liability or culpability.

If Thinksecret got the stuff lawfully from public sources, he could immediately assert his Section 230 rights and get the case tossed.

 

[Applespider]

IAs for doing it differently, no offense, but you sound like a Monday morning QB.

No offense taken but no MMQB here (aside from Peter King's).Whenever I see anything on the front page that starts 'Thinksecret has posted', I don't read any further than the headline. I don't want to know the exact specs. I'd rather wait and be surprised. So yes, while I'm aware that Asteroid has something to do with inputting into Garageband, I've made a conscious choice to avoid the details.

 

[wdlove]

This lower price of Dell is interesting. Just wonder what kind of quality they offer. It would seem to hurt repeat business. Or does Dell try to get a customer to purchase something better than the listed sale price?

 

[Rower_CPU]

Sure there is - MacRumors is a consistent re-poster of everything Think Secret does. The people on this site get all huffy about Think Secret's methods, yet MacRumors ALWAYS, 100% OF THE TIME, re-reports what Think Secret reports. Clearly, if the staff and visitors of MacRumors had issues with Think Secret, they should either A) condemn them and cease re-reporting Think Secret stories, or B) **** and admit you enjoy them, while appreciating that it is Think Secret getting their hands dirty doing the hard work.

Of course, maybe rampant hypocrisy is what being an Apple fanboy means - condemn Think Secret while drooling over stories that they made possible for MacRumors to re-report.

DNFTT, folks.

 

[~loserman~]

You know, I agree, they should shut down all the Apple rumor sites, including this one. Hell, even MacRumors encourage people to break their NDA - it says "Got Mac News/Rumors? Submit It." right on the front page.

Come to think of it, I wish they'd shut down all media coverage of Apple as well. With no media coverage, Apple could guarantee that no one would be able to leak TRADE SECRETS, because no one would publish them, and no buzz would be created.

Not surprised he got banned.

 

[Doctor Q]

Not surprised he got banned.

Members are banned for only one reason: breaking MacRumors forum rules. Having an opinion one way or the other about the ThinkSecret issue is in no way against the rules.

I've read some excellent (and some foolish) posts defending or slamming ThinkSecret (and this site as well) and I except to see more of the same as the case progresses.

 

[bosrs1]

Not surprised he got banned.

Who got banned?

 

[Maestro64]

You know, you're absolutely right! Because of those leaks, Dell has been selling their top end systems, including 17" LCD's that work, for $1099, and all because Think Secret leaked the price of a high-end G5 at $2999. The worst part is, Dell's been doing it for months! Damn you Think Secret for selling Apple down the river on high-end machines!

You missed the point, Apple's higher end product are not target at the same people as Dell is. People who buy high end mac do so for different set of reason. The Mac Mini is specifically targeted at the Low End PC buyer who price is the deciding factor. Dell has never offer a low end machine at $399. Grant it what they give you for $399 is still below what Apple gives you at $499 but most people can not tell the different between Mhz and Meg Bytes and Gig of something. These people do not care they want it cheap and to do what they need it to do. So if they were in the market to buy a new or replace a system $100 saving will flip most users.

 

[FFTT]

e-Week doesn't seem all to pleased with Apple lately.

http://blog.ziffdavis.com/rothenberg/archive/2005/03/06/6137.aspx?kc=ewnws030805dtx1k0000599