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For smartphones, not tablets :

No. Judge Koh's decision yesterday granting a PI in favor of Apple is on a Samsung tablet, not a smartphone.

With respect to the "forced" issue, yes if you want to redefine "forced" to mean something other than "forced," then, yes, you can say that any statement you make is true. If you want to redefine "forced" to mean "the law requires Judge Koh to apply the correct legal standard to the question of invalidity, as ordered by the CAFC in its mandate," then, yes, you can say the CAFC "forced" Judge Koh to do this. But I think that most people reading your statement would have a different view of what "forced" means.

Have you even read the opinion? Here is exactly what Jude Koh was ordered to do: "We vacate the order denying an injunction with respect to the D’889 patent and remand the case to the district court for further proceedings on that portion of Apple’s motion for preliminary relief." Nowhere in the opinion will you find a statement such as "the district court is ordered to grant preliminary relief" or anything even like that.

But, so what? So what if the CAFC "forced" a District Judge to do something. That's the appellate court's function. See, e.g., The Judiciary Act of 1789. Ever heard of mandamus?
 
Well, you're party right. They *didn't* lose because they weren't the originators of the GUI. They lost because a poorly worded contract with Microsoft to develop Word/Excel/etc. for the Mac gave more rights to the the look/feel than had been intended.

That's not an argument against anything but having broadly- or poorly-defined contract terms.

The Case, as seen on Wikipedia.

Turns out we're both right.

Apple listed 189 GUI elements; the court decided that 179 of these elements had been licensed to Microsoft in the Windows 1.0 agreement and most of the remaining 10 elements were not copyrightable—either they were unoriginal to Apple, or they were the only possible way of expressing a particular idea.

The court also pointed out that many of Apple's claims fail on an originality basis. Apple admittedly licensed many of its representations from Xerox, and copyright protection only extends to original expression. Apple returned to its "complete look and feel" argument, stating that while the individual components were not original, the complete GUI was. The court rejected these arguments because the parts were not original.
 
Not a good sign that they began by naming the NEW Surface after their end-table-with-a-wall-socket flop. Recycling a name on a product that's supposed to be your turn around? It would be identical to Apple naming the iPad as The Newton.

It's hard to call a product a flop when it was a limited release, targeted only to a very specific audience who could afford the $10,000+ price tag.

Plus, I'm sure the iPad would've sold just as well even if it were called the Newton 2.
 
especially after the stinging failure of Google Wave and Google+.

FYI, it was announced that Google+ has 250 million users. Of that - they say that 150 million are actually active. FB has 900 million reportedly (by comparison).

I would say Google+ - whether you like it or not is far from a "stinging failure."
 
Glad to see progress being made. Good work, Apple.

not my quote - but i agree:

"I understand people wanting to protect their inventions, but "look and feel" is a bogus idea. I mean, should one bakery sue another because their loaves of bread are also rectangular? What if the Sumsung product is actually better than the iPad? Should we as consumers be forced to buy the flaky product rushed to market and banned from buying better products that had a longer design and development cycle?"
 
What was cloned? Can you point a single thing or you don't have nothing?



Source?



You can debate what you want, Samsung is not Android and Galaxy S hardware is not Android and a Samsung USB charger is not Android

And, finally, still waiting for those things that Andorid has stolen

Do you have any proof or do you only spit crap?

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The picture was not enough for you? Is that phone not running Android? Enough people have posted examples in this thread alone. Even Steve Jobs was willing to use all of Apple's cash to prove it. There is and will continue to be endless litigation related to this issue.

So believe what you want, tough guy. Like I said before, whatever, man.
 
The picture was not enough for you? Is that phone not running Android? Enough people have posted examples in this thread alone. Even Steve Jobs was willing to use all of Apple's cash to prove it. There is and will continue to be endless litigation related to this issue.

So believe what you want, tough guy. Like I said before, whatever, man.

Your post has been refuted. And the fact that Steve Jobs SAID he was willing to do whatever it took to "destroy" Android doesn't mean the same thing. And it wasn't up to Steve Jobs anyway - there's this thing called the Board of Directors. And Stockholders too. The money wasn't his to spend. Endless litigation for sure. Much of it futile. But I blame the courts and the patent offices more for allowing it.
 
The picture was not enough for you? Is that phone not running Android? Enough people have posted examples in this thread alone. Even Steve Jobs was willing to use all of Apple's cash to prove it. There is and will continue to be endless litigation related to this issue.


So you don't have any concrete point apart of the "They stole" mantra.

And no, what it is shown on the picture is Samsung Touchwiz launcher and some application icons on the homescreen.

You are not claiming that a grid of icons is what has been stolen from iOS, do you?
 
No. Judge Koh's decision yesterday granting a PI in favor of Apple is on a Samsung tablet, not a smartphone.

Yes, I know that. :eek: That's not what we were talking about just 2 seconds ago. We were talking about the previous ruling in Decem... err.. you know what ? NVM. I didn't say anything, I never replied to you *steps away slowly*.

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Is that phone not running Android?

A phone that might look like an iPhone running Android does not make Android a copy of iOS.

You do understand the concept of software vs hardware right ? I can run Linux on a Mac, that doesn't make Linux a copy of OS X because they run on the same hardware now.

That's just a ludicrous claim.
 
Enlighten us in what way then. How is Android even a "take" on iOS ? What do they share ?

- Frameworks ?
- UI design paradigms ?
- Kernel level operations ?
- Software runtime architecture ?

Which is it ? (gah, I promised not to continue this dumb debate, yet even when it's all spelled out 2 posts earlier, people continue to make this ridiculous claim without ever providing specifics of what they mean).

Clearly none of those, I suppose, since it seems that your question was loaded in a way that the answer to each is "no". I do not delve into the curtain behind the UI. Nor I care to. What I find ridiculous and dumb is that people don't see the obvious similarities in the two OS, with regards to the UI look and feel.

From the beginning, Android was positioned to be an iPhone-killer/alternative, especially in the WAY the OS behaves and how you navigate it (multi-touch pinch, swipe, zoom, app-driven platform, general OS design, etc.), but in a much more customizable way. I've seen what Android was before, and after the iPhone were introduced, and they're wildly different. It is a common perception that Android offers an experience similar to iOS, albeit not identical. Granted, as releases and updates come out, I see that gap grow further apart.

Win Phone 7/8 would be an example of something actually different, in look and feel.

So, ridiculous and dumb it is. You keep your perception, and I'll keep mine. Cool?
 
Ladies and gentlemen, I present you with the first rough draft of the Krasus Tab. Designed in 15 minutes by a random amateur on the internet (me) and meant to show that tablets need not look like iPads.

Image


It may not be the prettiest thing out there, but that's not the point. If silly old me can manage that in a few spare moments, why can't the well-paid industrial designers of a global multi-million dollar company?

There's no excuse. Tablet makers should sell their products on their own merits instead of marketing it as, "It's an iPad... except cheaper!"

You know, I kinda like it. Seriously.

The cut-off corners could make it more comfortable to hold from the corners as they wouldn't dig into your palm as much. They also would make it easier to design docking shells as it'd be forced to center the device right before connection is made.

The width of the bezel might need to be adjusted thicker after models are made, but it's a pretty good start.
 
So many people claiming Samsung is stealing ideas from Apple. I wonder if the majority of you even know what Apple is primarily suing over? I admit, I don't. At any rate if you remember back to 1989, Samsung produced a Tablet called the GridPad....long, long before the iPad. I suppose Apple can be credited with the Pad in it's rather original name? :rolleyes: Anyway, it was sure nice at the time. Again, at the time...this was an era when desktop computers were still practically the size of a large kitchen appliance. :D

External designs of tablets are all going to look similar for the foreseeable future. I think we all already know this. As for a touch enable OS, of course launchers across manufactures will be similar. They all must perform the SAME purpose.

The real problem in my eyes, is Apple and other companies ably patenting over general discoveries that really for the sake of generality and future innovation should not be patented at all.
 
Pinch to Zoom was not an apple invention btw

so yes, the iphone has it. any other device using pinch to zoom si immediately copying apple?

take a look at “Digital Desk” by Pierre Wellner in 1991. Multi touch technology in fact dates even further back.

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The real problem in my eyes, is Apple and other companies ably patenting over general discoveries that really for the sake of generality and future innovation should not be patented at all.

YES
the entire patent system needs to be redone to prevent exactly this.

Patents should be awarded for a device or an invention that accomplishes a job or task. They should be demonstratable (meaning you can actually create what you're patenting) and they should pass the "common sense" test.

Most of these patents about "rounded corners". "gestures done on a screen" and the likes should never be made a patent.

as we move more and more to simplicity of design, we will encounter more and more this problem as THERE are only so many ways to skin a cat. (to abuse a cliche).

there are only so many designs around a square flat screen you can make.
 
Clearly none of those, I suppose, since it seems that your question was loaded in a way that the answer to each is "no". I do not delve into the curtain behind the UI.

No one was stopping you from adding to the list with your own observations. I did mention the UI though.

I do not delve into the curtain behind the UI. Nor I care to. What I find ridiculous and dumb is that people don't see the obvious similarities in the two OS, with regards to the UI look and feel.

The UI look and feel ? Of Android and iOS. Did you read my previous post about that. Let me quote you the appropriate paragraphs :

BTW, this is Android 1.0 :

Google_Android_09_screenshot_home.jpg


This is Ice Cream Sandwich, Android 4.0 :

home-lg.png


Both are pretty much the same. Widgets, application launchers that can be positionned anywhere on screen according to user input. The UI didn't change much, except for its theming and styling. The core of it has remained the same. The core of it is also quite different from iOS' UI. Here for reference :

iOS-5-Home-Screen.png


Rigid icon grid, no way to move things around as the icons place themselves linearly, completing existing rows and pages before creating new ones. This is minimalist, it is recognizable from one device to the other.

The design goals with both these UIs are quite different. Andy and Google went with user customization in mind, making the device the users device'. Apple went with a different approach, a strict UI that is unbending to a user' will so that any user that picks up any iOS device will instantly recognize how to use it efficiently.

Both approaches have merit, both target different audiences. To claim one is a copy of the other or vice versa is inane. It's ignorant of every aspect of the design of both and it ignores the fundamental differences between the systems.

After reading this, can you still sit there and claim the UIs are "copied" from each other ? The underlying design paradigms of both UIs, the goals that their respective designers wanted to attain, all seems pretty different with me. And it's obvious to anyone using either devices. They are both different in their feel and use.

From the beginning, Android was positioned to be an iPhone-killer/alternative, especially in the WAY the OS behaves and how you navigate it (multi-touch pinch, swipe, zoom, app-driven platform, general OS design, etc.), but in a much more customizable way.

Wait, app-driven platform ? You mean like Symbian before it ? Windows Mobile 6.5 ? J2ME runtimes on dumbphones ?

Newsflash, that's what the smartphone market was before the iPhone and after the iPhone. App driven devices. In fact, Apple missed the boat on that in 2007, by announcing loudly and proudly that developers were to make "Webapps" for iPhone. Only after people clamored for a native SDK to match what was out there for other platforms did they release one.

I remember writing software using Sony Ericsson's SDK with a phone emulator and all, back in 2003 for my T610.

As for navigation, I have never seen Android positionned with any kind of such rigid navigation paradigms. Quite the contrary, in 2008, the first Android phone shipped without multi-touch enabled and with a hardware keyboard. Touch was not being touted as a killer feature at all. In fact, even the Nexus One didn't enable multi-touch until 2010 in the US, when it was ascerted that Apple didn't hold the patents they said they did (no one can't patent the whole of multi-touch, the concept has waaaaay too much prior art at this point) :

http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/02/nexus-one-gets-a-software-update-enables-multitouch/

So on this I think you're just confused and seeing what you want to see.

I've seen what Android was before, and after the iPhone were introduced, and they're wildly different. It is a common perception that Android offers an experience similar to iOS, albeit not identical. Granted, as releases and updates come out, I see that gap grow further apart.

Go back and read my entire post. (click the arrow next to my name on the previous quote of my own post). Android has not changed from before and after the iPhone. Android is still the same it was. A hardware agnostic platform that can run on many form factors. You're repeating stuff I've provided evidence against. I can't argue if you ignore what I posted earlier, that's just impossible. Provide counter arguments if you want, don't just repeat things as mantras after you've been shown they are not the case.

Win Phone 7/8 would be an example of something actually different, in look and feel.

Because it uses tiles instead of icons ? :confused: Tiles to me look pretty much like icons. You know what they say about Roses by any other name...

The plain fact is Windows Phone is different, Android is different, iOS is different. None of the OSes look alike or have conflicting design goals.

So, ridiculous and dumb it is. You keep your perception, and I'll keep mine. Cool?

Sure, if you want to have no basis for your perception, I guess it's cool. I'm just trying to understand on what basis you're forming your perception from. It seems even you can't properly explain it, which to me means you maybe should reevaluate it ?

I have provided plenty of meat on which I base mine.
 
FYI, it was announced that Google+ has 250 million users. Of that - they say that 150 million are actually active. FB has 900 million reportedly (by comparison).

I would say Google+ - whether you like it or not is far from a "stinging failure."

Google+ has a long ways to go, but in the future it really could provide competition to Facebook if users start to abandon Facebook for whatever reason.

Still you have to admit Google+ has been a heck of a lot more successful then Apple's effort of trying to get into social networking called Ping.

Yes even Apple has had it's flops. Ping is one.
 
FYI, it was announced that Google+ has 250 million users. Of that - they say that 150 million are actually active. FB has 900 million reportedly (by comparison).

I would say Google+ - whether you like it or not is far from a "stinging failure."

Google Wave was a stinging failure, Google+ is on its way to be one.

There.

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Google+ has a long ways to go, but in the future it really could provide competition to Facebook if users start to abandon Facebook for whatever reason.

Still you have to admit Google+ has been a heck of a lot more successful then Apple's effort of trying to get into social networking called Ping.

Yes even Apple has had it's flops. Ping is one.

I tried to like Ping, but it was pointless lol.

Same with Google+ : /
 
So many people claiming Samsung is stealing ideas from Apple. I wonder if the majority of you even know what Apple is primarily suing over? I admit, I don't. At any rate if you remember back to 1989, Samsung produced a Tablet called the GridPad....long, long before the iPad.

Hum...

http://www.techradar.com/news/mobile-computing/10-memorable-milestones-in-tablet-history-924916

The GRiD Pad was a product of Grid systems corporation (1989) :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grid_Systems_Corporation

If you notice, GRiD was bought by Tandy in 1988 :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tandy_Corporation

Eventually, Tandy sold its computer business to AST computers :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AST_Research

And there the line ends. Samsung where ? ;)

(interesting tidbit, GRiD was founded by Xerox PARC people in 1981 and used a lower case i in their name. Steve would eventually found NeXT in the late 80s, using... a lower case "e" in the name. Steve just loves borrowing ideas from Xerox PARC people uh ? :p )

Thanks for the chance at a history lesson though! That "Tablet history article" was a nice read.
 
Pinch to Zoom was not an apple invention btw

so yes, the iphone has it. any other device using pinch to zoom si immediately copying apple?

take a look at “Digital Desk” by Pierre Wellner in 1991. Multi touch technology in fact dates even further back.

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YES
the entire patent system needs to be redone to prevent exactly this.

Patents should be awarded for a device or an invention that accomplishes a job or task. They should be demonstratable (meaning you can actually create what you're patenting) and they should pass the "common sense" test.

Most of these patents about "rounded corners". "gestures done on a screen" and the likes should never be made a patent.

as we move more and more to simplicity of design, we will encounter more and more this problem as THERE are only so many ways to skin a cat. (to abuse a cliche).

there are only so many designs around a square flat screen you can make.

I believe they should be, because it is in how these things are implemented that differentiation and value is established in products that people are selling.

You are correct, the iPhone was not the 1st device to use multitouch, or icons, or phone calls, or apps. But they were the first to combine them in a particular way that they did to make a device literally unlike anything before it, changing the mobile landscape as a result. I believe they, and anyone that comes up with something like that, should reap the rewards of putting it together that way.

For example, The Dark Knight and the Tim Burton Batman have the same characters, elements, and basic storyline points. But wow, it makes a big difference how the story is told and put together. The devil is in the details...
 
I love how people are trying to make analogies about the tab infringing.

The basics of the issue are is it easy to think a Samsung product is an apple iPad and the answer is yes.

Samsung put a product to market that was identical in many ways when it had never done so before apple did.

These injunctions are too slow, they need to be rolled out much quicker as new products an innovation should be protected better. Samsung are for people with no integrity.
 
You are correct, the iPhone was not the 1st device to use multitouch, or icons, or phone calls, or apps. But they were the first to combine them in a particular way that they did to make a device literally unlike anything before it, changing the mobile landscape as a result. I believe they, and anyone that comes up with something like that, should reap the rewards of putting it together that way.

This device would like to once again, refute you.
blackberry.gif

I can't claim it 1st.
but it sure was around prior to the iphone.

again, Apple didnt invent, nor were they the first. They were just really damn good at 'image'. and the apple image sold.

this image wasn't generated via the iphone or iOS either. Thats the kicker.

Apple's image really came back to the forefront of industrial design around a similar, but much different device.
HT1353_30.jpg


It was THIS iconic device that made apple a household name again. it was this iconic device that made everyone go "holy crap, apple knows industrial design". it was the ipod's insane adoption as the leading Mp3 maker that made headway for apple to even make the iphone, which was far from the first smartphone.

The Ipod wasn't even the first hard drive based mp3 player. so were they in fact ripping off the concept and design from others?


Apple fanboys... they're always a lark. What i'm trying to understand here is, so now you agree that apple didnt actually invent any of those technologies, But because they took them, put them all together in one of the most popular packages, they should in fact be given complete ownership of the concept of putting them together?

sense. Doesn't that make
 
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