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Apple Working on a Tablet Mac?
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After reading 80% of the "wants" on this thread, I see why NONE of you work at Apple and why you ALWAYS get mad at new Apple products.
You want the moon at the cost of cheese. STOP DREAMING.
You want the moon at the cost of cheese. STOP DREAMING.
DISREGARD:
Dude. You already posted that and they were called fake. Stop spamming.
@ Wizard: I honestly don't think you'll find many people here who will stick up for you. There just isn't room for different-sized iPhones. Your vision of the iPhone "Family" is not only unrealistic (though you fail to see it) but it's very non-Apple. The iPhone as we know it today may only be one product, but that one product will fill a large spectrum of Apple's lineup and for simplicity's sake, Apple will only keep 1 or 2 models... the greatest variation in you'll see in the said models is capacity... *maybe* in the near future the option of having 3G, though I believe Apple will convert the whole line to 3G all at once.
-Clive
Dude. You already posted that and they were called fake. Stop spamming.
@ Wizard: I honestly don't think you'll find many people here who will stick up for you. There just isn't room for different-sized iPhones. Your vision of the iPhone "Family" is not only unrealistic (though you fail to see it) but it's very non-Apple. The iPhone as we know it today may only be one product, but that one product will fill a large spectrum of Apple's lineup and for simplicity's sake, Apple will only keep 1 or 2 models... the greatest variation in you'll see in the said models is capacity... *maybe* in the near future the option of having 3G, though I believe Apple will convert the whole line to 3G all at once.
-Clive
I hope not. A touch-screen desktop would be really annoying to use.
Don't believe me? Try holding your hands up against your desktop's display, in the manner you would if you were trying to write on it. You'll find your wrists in pain after only a few minutes of this.
A large-scale touch system can only work comfortably if it lies flat across your desk, or if it is built-in to your desk. I don't have enough free space on my desk right now, without having to clear out enough space to put a display flat across it.
Yes, I've seen Minority Report. It looks real cool, but can you see yourself actually doing your job like that - always standing up, and having to swing your arms around in order to manipulate the on-screen objects?
So you provide a laundry list of features that would cost over $4000 in a laptop and may not be possible without a desktop form factor. And then you want it packed with 8 hours worth of battery, but small enough and light enough that it can be carried around like a phone.
Are you aware that Apple can't manufacture devices using Toon physics?
If you really don't get it, then you obviously don't understand the market well enough to design products for it. The fact is that lots of people buy these laptops, whether or not you can understand why.
The fact is, lots of laptop owners aren't interested in computing from their laps in the car/bus/train/plane. A lot of them want a full-blown desktop system that is self-contained enough that they can carry it between home and the office (and remote office sites). That isn't going to happen with a 12" laptop and a bunch of external monitors, unless you have enough money to buy extra monitors to leave lying around every place you have to work from.
I know several people who would ideally want something like a 24" iMac that they can easily transport between work sites (several times a day), and end up having to settle for a 17" laptop (with the same 1920x1200 resolution) instead.
some thoughts on an apple tablet
I use both apple and tablet products. In general, I use a tablet as an adjunct to my desktop, not as a replacement, and I suggest that this the market segment that Apple may need to target if they are to succeed.
The tablet (a Motion Computing LE1700 "slate" style unit) functions as my daily management tool; I take all notes as straight handwriting, only worrying about conversion when I need it for specific purposes. I am usually connected via wireless, but have a backup cellular data card. I run standard email and web-browsing packages. I particularly like the "low profile" nature of the slate; one can take notes at a meeting much more naturally than clacking on a keyboard with a screen between you and the speaker (or, you can do other stuff if you are bored and "look" like you are taking notes!). I use handwriting recognition when handling email, it's fine for getting a quick reply back (and the recognition has gotten a lot better), but not for any significant text composition, for that, I would defer to my desktop or just dock the slate with a keyboard. All of my navigation is done with a pen, but a finger could accomplish the same. Thus it is possible to survive the day without keyboard (I do have about 8hrs battery), yet I would never consider this a replacement for my desktop, though, to be fair, a number of my colleagues do exactly that. It is also a great presentation tool; being able to "draw" or write on your slide is a very useful attention-keeper!
There is in my mind, huge room for improvement in the user interface, and if the iPhone-to-smartphone experience is any indicator (and I have used both), we are in for a fun ride if (and that's a big if) Apple takes on the tablet world.
With the iPhone, Apple successfully eschewed the use of a pen/stylus, if they stay true to that philosophy, it will be intriguing to see how (or if) they address those functions that, to date have required the use of a pen.
I use both apple and tablet products. In general, I use a tablet as an adjunct to my desktop, not as a replacement, and I suggest that this the market segment that Apple may need to target if they are to succeed.
The tablet (a Motion Computing LE1700 "slate" style unit) functions as my daily management tool; I take all notes as straight handwriting, only worrying about conversion when I need it for specific purposes. I am usually connected via wireless, but have a backup cellular data card. I run standard email and web-browsing packages. I particularly like the "low profile" nature of the slate; one can take notes at a meeting much more naturally than clacking on a keyboard with a screen between you and the speaker (or, you can do other stuff if you are bored and "look" like you are taking notes!). I use handwriting recognition when handling email, it's fine for getting a quick reply back (and the recognition has gotten a lot better), but not for any significant text composition, for that, I would defer to my desktop or just dock the slate with a keyboard. All of my navigation is done with a pen, but a finger could accomplish the same. Thus it is possible to survive the day without keyboard (I do have about 8hrs battery), yet I would never consider this a replacement for my desktop, though, to be fair, a number of my colleagues do exactly that. It is also a great presentation tool; being able to "draw" or write on your slide is a very useful attention-keeper!
There is in my mind, huge room for improvement in the user interface, and if the iPhone-to-smartphone experience is any indicator (and I have used both), we are in for a fun ride if (and that's a big if) Apple takes on the tablet world.
With the iPhone, Apple successfully eschewed the use of a pen/stylus, if they stay true to that philosophy, it will be intriguing to see how (or if) they address those functions that, to date have required the use of a pen.
Then those people should buy and iMac and one of the those zip up bags you can buy. No doudt they would have a bag of some sort for the laptop anyway, to put the mouse and power brick in, adding the keyboard as well is not really much harder.
Could this be the mac nano that was described as a replacement for the mac mini? Think about it- tablet based, sits in a dock or on a desk, magnetic power connector like the mbp, with a slot for loading a disk on the back. Monitor connects to the dock, or the dock can sit at your desk and give you a 5-7" screen at 800 by 600. Not too farf etched I say- look at some stuff nokia is doing already. The difference is that this would be a full-fledged mac that would run leopard.
Keyboard
For all its faults, the good ol' QWERTY keyboard is still the easiest way to quickly enter data into a computer.
Until somebody invents something that works ***BETTER*** than a keyboard, I will always want one attached to any computer I own.
I'd love to see a 9" widescreen MacBook mini. To me, the "dream" portable computer would essentially be an iPhone on steroids:
1. Full-size keyboard.
2. 160 GB hard drive (minimum)
3. WiFi, Bluetooth, USB2, Ethernet (maybe FW, if there's room) (SD? Why not just plug in the camera? Or get Sony to make a camera with Bluetooth?)
4. GSM SIM card slot, allowing phone use even when the laptop is asleep
5. GPS with integrated map
6. Screen big enough to use for most web sites, but small enough that the laptop is no longer or wider than the keyboard & a small trackpad
A device like this would replace my laptop (which has already replaced my desktop), my phone, my iPod, my PSP, my GPS and my road atlas.
It would be so useful, that I would probably permanently keep my car keys and all my wallet contents in the case's side-pouch, since I would never, ever, go anywhere without it.
Oh, btw, optical media is already almost completely obsolete. A $30 external drive in a drawer at home for the very rare cases when one is needed would be more than enough to keep me happy. Space, cost, and power requirements can be saved by having no DVD or CD. Apple is probably the only company with the guts to drop something like that off their design.
For all its faults, the good ol' QWERTY keyboard is still the easiest way to quickly enter data into a computer.
Until somebody invents something that works ***BETTER*** than a keyboard, I will always want one attached to any computer I own.
I'd love to see a 9" widescreen MacBook mini. To me, the "dream" portable computer would essentially be an iPhone on steroids:
1. Full-size keyboard.
2. 160 GB hard drive (minimum)
3. WiFi, Bluetooth, USB2, Ethernet (maybe FW, if there's room) (SD? Why not just plug in the camera? Or get Sony to make a camera with Bluetooth?)
4. GSM SIM card slot, allowing phone use even when the laptop is asleep
5. GPS with integrated map
6. Screen big enough to use for most web sites, but small enough that the laptop is no longer or wider than the keyboard & a small trackpad
A device like this would replace my laptop (which has already replaced my desktop), my phone, my iPod, my PSP, my GPS and my road atlas.
It would be so useful, that I would probably permanently keep my car keys and all my wallet contents in the case's side-pouch, since I would never, ever, go anywhere without it.
Oh, btw, optical media is already almost completely obsolete. A $30 external drive in a drawer at home for the very rare cases when one is needed would be more than enough to keep me happy. Space, cost, and power requirements can be saved by having no DVD or CD. Apple is probably the only company with the guts to drop something like that off their design.
http://home.businesswire.com/portal...gId=1000017&newsId=20071104005059&newsLang=en
I think Samsung's new faster 64gb drives could have something to do with this tablet...
I think Samsung's new faster 64gb drives could have something to do with this tablet...
I see why NONE of you work at Apple and why you ALWAYS get made at new Apple products.
You want the moon at the cost of cheese. STOP DREAMING.
Reminds me of a comedy show, where one of their punchlines was
You want the moon on a stick...
Ooo... You were so close to realizing a major point:
EVERY tablet that has ever been tried has failed.
And the main reason they failed: because they would have been pretty good computers, for want of a keyboard.
Meanwhile, laptop sales have skyrocketed over the last couple years. Why? because they can do pretty much everything a desktop computer can do and more. Why? Well, a big part of it is they have this extremely useful input device, called a "keyboard", attached to them.
The ultimate Tablet PC already exists. It's called a laptop.
I do agree that it'd be a pain, and yet I think there is scope for a useful touch interface. If Apple was to devise a touch screen iMac, they'd really have to make a prototype and watch how people use it, make a new one and watch,... and repeat. They'd learn alot, I'd say the 4th generation of prototypes would be a far cry from the 1st generation.
If you simply added the interface to existing laptops and iMacs, it may still get use... for a few years now we've cut off our natural instinct to point to what we're interested in and substituted it for a mouse or track pad... and offering both could have some positive effects. Especially when 2 people are looking at once since both can touch things.
Yeah I think this need is underestimated. The original Mac met this need really well, you could stuff it in the bag it came with, keyboard and mouse in the side pocket. And the first Mac Laptop wasn't called a laptop... it was called a 'portable'....(it was a little large!). The first flat screen iMac is almost that portable, but more breakable and not convenient.. though I imagine the recent 17" iMac is pretty close (no customised bag though!)
A 24" iMac won't fit in their laptop bag
. Besides... those things are heavy! Not something to drag around. Even the 20" is too heavy... and if we're going back to a 17" then why not just have the 17" laptop?You think I missed that point?
Ah.... maybe you have no idea what I was talking about?
If you basically take the keyboard off a great laptop, then you'll have a great laptop that needs a keyboard.
My point is that unless a tablet has an entirely different interaction method than a laptop (and a shift in purpose probably).... you'd be better off with the laptop. Apple has shown that it's about the only company in a position to force that kind of shift in usage... so if they DO do it their tablet play will be interesting to watch.
Can you explain why that's different to saying "the ultimate motorbike already exists. It's called a car."?
(edit/ps: I agree that if you need portability and a keyboard, get a laptop with a keyboard! In that sense why make a Laptop as there's no point trying to duplicate something that works with something less effective. HOWEVER, I'm stepping outside that square.)
Ha I remember that, wasn't it that Vic and Bob thing.
I don't know... ideas *can* seem like dreams, but if anyone can put them into reality, Apple can. Just look at the iPhone.
Why not have something that has the same input learning style keyboard that pops up like on the iphone? You could hold it in your hands and type with your hands- jus tlike an iphone. But it could connect to a monitor, and it could connect to a keyboard when you needed it to.
If you want a full-sized keyboard (and for whatever it's worth, I do) in this shiny new tablet/ultraportable/notebook/thingie, then by my calculations it can't be smaller than 12 inches. Another consideration, as far as I'm concerned, is not just dimension but weight. I'd love a fully functional* notebook with a full-sized keyboard that weighs considerably less than 4 pounds. Every laptop currently made by Apple comes in at a hefty 5 pounds or more.
* Of course, the rub is, what does one mean by "fully functional"? In my humble view, it doesn't need to include a super or even combo drive, since I very rarely burn or even place CDs or DVDs in my laptop. (For those occasions when one must, there are cheap and plentiful external drives available.) From what I gather, this would free up a great deal of space (and mass) for other goodies, like decent computing and graphics power, which I'd gladly trade for the opportunity to burn DVDs on the fly. It's all about compromises and trade-offs. What do you need vs. what do you want vs. what is possible vs. price vs....
* Of course, the rub is, what does one mean by "fully functional"? In my humble view, it doesn't need to include a super or even combo drive, since I very rarely burn or even place CDs or DVDs in my laptop. (For those occasions when one must, there are cheap and plentiful external drives available.) From what I gather, this would free up a great deal of space (and mass) for other goodies, like decent computing and graphics power, which I'd gladly trade for the opportunity to burn DVDs on the fly. It's all about compromises and trade-offs. What do you need vs. what do you want vs. what is possible vs. price vs....
45 degrees
You speak as if there are only two possible positions for the display of a touch-screen desktop.
In terms of comfort and posture, neither is ideal.
What is required is a display with a stand on it that allows the user to tilt the display to their desired angle.
You speak as if there are only two possible positions for the display of a touch-screen desktop.
In terms of comfort and posture, neither is ideal.
What is required is a display with a stand on it that allows the user to tilt the display to their desired angle.
After reading 80% of the "wants" on this thread, I see why NONE of you work at Apple and why you ALWAYS get mad at new Apple products.
You want the moon at the cost of cheese. STOP DREAMING.
Yikes, you sound like that comic book shop geek from The Simpsons. Read your post to yourself in his voice and you'll get what I mean.
A 24" iMac won't fit in their laptop bag
Oops i thought these guys did a bag for the 24.
http://www.ilugger.com/
Only the 20" and old 17".
Is a 20" laptop going to be any lighter and the trade off is the cooling system?
Ok so no wants to hold there hands up all day with a touch screen iMac.
We are talking Tablet here which would sit on the desk like a note pad.
Like a note pad it's a standalone tool that compliments others tools in the kit.
Sure you can type faster on a keyboard but that doesn't mean all devices need keyboards, if it did why do we still have notepads on our desk for those situations where keyboards either get in the way, or just unusable.
There are people who would be better off with no keyboard and a tablet. Those who's set up include a number of tools including a tablet device and a desktop / laptop or terminal and server farm.
I think tablets have failed to date because there designers are unwilling to draw a line in the sand say here is our device here is what it does well. If your needs are beyond that then pair it with another device that suits them well.
Well that and the tech to do them right is still 6-12months off.
You're still not getting it.
Regardless of WHAT the "interface" design is, if it's capable of computing and/or handling communication, I'm going to want to put English words into it, because I speak English.
A keyboard is still the best way to put words into a computer, regardless of form factor, design concept, OS, etc.
Call it a "device" all you like. Can I use it for text-based communication? Can I browse the web with it and post comments on this forum? Then it's a computer, and computers (at the moment) need some way to enter English letters into them to realize their potential usefulness. So far, the keyboard has not been surpassed by any other system as the best way to do so.
The only compelling reason to leave a keyboard off a computer is to save space... and that's all well and good, but so far nobody has come up with anything smaller than a keyboard that works just as well.
Although probably not realistic in the near future, I would love to have a touch screen tablet that also offers the advantages of having a full QWERTY keyboard. It would pop up, such as that of the iPhone's, but the user would have the ability to adjust key size & spacing. Better yet, the computer would recognize how you type and adjust keys accordingly.
Maybe that's the future of keyboards? If it is, that would be awesome.
Maybe that's the future of keyboards? If it is, that would be awesome.
Sure...
I agree with you that there is a market for these desktop-confused-laptops. I believe that many people are looking for that perfect blend. I cannot take that desire (or foolishness) away from them. I just think their reasoning is flawed. Sure, a portable just means you can move it around. Given that, my 20-inch iMac is a portable. They even make bags for them. Some of those laptops are just under my iMacs size and weight (just kidding about the weight). As I said in a previous post. There is an optimal size-to-usability ratio for laptops. I would say that Apple, Sony and other companies have found that. As for the bigger laptops, including the 17" MacBook Pro, they are way outside of the norm. The 12" and subs are past optimum, but my 12" G4 Powerbook is still capable of 95% of what any large notebook, or 90% of most desktops, can do while still being comfortable to use. I would say its limitations are in screen readability for some persons. Sure is nice to carry around an airport or campus, too.
I agree with you that there is a market for these desktop-confused-laptops. I believe that many people are looking for that perfect blend. I cannot take that desire (or foolishness) away from them. I just think their reasoning is flawed. Sure, a portable just means you can move it around. Given that, my 20-inch iMac is a portable. They even make bags for them. Some of those laptops are just under my iMacs size and weight (just kidding about the weight). As I said in a previous post. There is an optimal size-to-usability ratio for laptops. I would say that Apple, Sony and other companies have found that. As for the bigger laptops, including the 17" MacBook Pro, they are way outside of the norm. The 12" and subs are past optimum, but my 12" G4 Powerbook is still capable of 95% of what any large notebook, or 90% of most desktops, can do while still being comfortable to use. I would say its limitations are in screen readability for some persons. Sure is nice to carry around an airport or campus, too.
Then buy a laptop, a small 12" one would be great in apples range.
But that is a very different thing, add a keyboard it's a laptop, your working on a different set of assumptions
A lot of people yes still enter english language into a computer but do so in positions that a keyboard, not matter how fast it is sitting down, is completely useless. These people want a device thats design isn't hampered by the assumption that you are sitting down. The name says it all "laptop".
The other assumption that Laptops are hampered by is that your main data is text. In a lot of cases that isn't true, look at iApps like iMovie, Garageband, iPhoto and there more professional counterparts. All could be more useful without the keyboard getting in the way. Apple gives you these apps to attract sales of hardware. So no real question of market.
These are the compelling reasons to build a device that works to a different set of assumptions, now the option are either
a)include Hampered keyboard that takes up space, or
b) allow it pair with the users choice of keyboards if it standalone or with another computer if part of a tool box of computers.
I prefer b, i'm also guessing you wouldn't be in the target market for the device either.
edit: should have added c) onscreen input, with could be two hand keyboard, one hand keyboard, hand writing or gesture( i wonder if a touch screen could understand sign language).
Still b and c offer a better product.