Apple Working on Chips for New Macs and AI Servers

[BNBMS]

The problem is that AI models are basically implemented by researchers, and researchers chose CUDA a long time ago, and they won’t change (an unwise choice if you ask me, because it’s vendor specific, but most researchers are not smart when it comes to real implementation).

Believe it or not, CUDA is just one way to use. There reasons why NPU exists and technically, GPU itself is extremely inefficient for AI which is also why they need a dedicated NPU which is meant for AI. This is why many big tech companies such as Amazon, Microsoft, Tesla, and more are developing their own chips or NPU to replace Nvidia GPU.

Furthermore, GPU or graphic processing unit is literally meant for 3D graphics, NOT AI. That's how it works and that's why we need a dedicated chip for AI which is NPU. They literally are using GPU for something that wasn't meant for.

For now, Nvidia is dominating just because of CUDA ecosystem but doesn't mean it's the only choice.

 

[macduke]

I've barely taxed my M3 Max. Figured by now something would slow it down a bit but haven't encountered it. I worry about Apple slowing down on advancements in these chips because it might affect their bottom line. They are just too good! But maybe it will help grow their Mac user base.

While it has been great for the most part, for some reason my battery health has taken a big dip recently which is strange. For the longest time it was at 100% and then over the past six months it has gone down to 91%. I was out of a job for 5 of those 6 months, so I wonder if that played a part? I have mainly used it docked since then, and quite heavily for a two month period when I learned iOS dev and made my game. So many people say to just use Apple's smart charging algorithms, but I'm now regretting not using an app to limit charging to 80%. It hardly ever drops down below 10% before I put it on the charger either, more typically I put it on between 15-25% to limit wear. But I have AppleCare+ on it, so I guess they will replace it if it gets down to 80%.

Don't really see needing to upgrade this for a very long time because it's so fast, like not until M9 or M10 at the earliest, unless I get my house paid off early and just have money burning a hole in my pocket and want the OLED model.

 

[seek3r]

...but Apple don't make servers, so why would they want to build server chips?

They currently have custom servers for internal use, mostly focused on their AI backends, running an M2 variant. That’s likely the destination for these chips.

 

[seek3r]

My understanding that that since Apple dropped Mac servers several decades ago they rely exclusively on x86 servers running linux and programmed in C++. Apple definitely does not eat their own dog food. And that also explains why there are so many bugs in Apple non-C++ arm software.

Apple Reportedly Building M2 Ultra and M4-Powered AI Servers

Apple has started building its own AI servers that use the M2 Ultra chip, Haitong analyst Jeff Pu reports. Pu provided the analysis based on supply...

www.macrumors.com

 

[zephonic]

Ability to make Mac Pro's chip will directly important for them to create server and super computer just like Nvidia did. If you ever checked Nvidia, they provided a workstation with 4x GPU for a personal user like DGX. Dont forget that Apple also made a server based on Mac Pro.

Then where is Mac Pro's chip? Apple cant even make sever and super computer grade chip unlike Nvidia. Cant and Can is a huge difference.

Doesn't change the fact that Apple Silicon sucks for GPU and AI resources. That's also why they are struggling with their own AI server which only has 50,000 made out of more than 5 years old GPU, Cant even make a powerful desktop chip, and heavily limited by SoC as they need to make a huge chip.

I don't think the issue is Apple can't make a proper workstation or server CPU, I think they don't see the business case for it.

I bet the Mac Pro is one out of every 100,000 Macs sold, or thereabouts. The sales don't justify the expense. If you are Intel and you sell millions of server CPU's annually, that's different.

I think the argument here is that if Apple feels having their own AI hardware is critical to their business model, it will be done, and likely be done well.

But I understand the view that without CUDA it might be a losing proposition for third-party AI developers.

 

[BNBMS]

I don't think the issue is Apple can't make a proper workstation or server CPU, I think they don't see the business case for it.

I bet the Mac Pro is one out of every 100,000 Macs sold, or thereabouts. The sales don't justify the expense. If you are Intel and you sell millions of server CPU's annually, that's different.

I think the argument here is that if Apple feels having their own AI hardware is critical to their business model, it will be done, and likely be done well.

But I understand the view that without CUDA it might be a losing proposition for third-party AI developers.

They do and Mac Pro is directly connected to it. Since Apple hates Nvidia, they cant just rely on 5 years old GPU for their own servers. They will need their own servers eventually and for that, they need abilities to make Mac Pro.

Besides, there are many uses for Mac Pro market and yet, Apple ditched it by themselves. Not a good move.

 

[picpicmac]

If you think that way, tell me if there are any Apple Silicon based super computer to train and study AI for their own company before you even say other things.

How many times does the following have to be repeated?

APPLE IS NOT IN THE BUSINESS OF BUILDING SUPERCOMPUTERS. Whether for AI or anything else.

 

[BNBMS]

How many times does the following have to be repeated?

APPLE IS NOT IN THE BUSINESS OF BUILDING SUPERCOMPUTERS. Whether for AI or anything else.

WRONG. How come they are using Mac Studio for their own AI servers then? They even admitted about using 5 years old GPU for AI development which is another proof why they need it and it also benefits Mac Pro.

Denying is not a way to solve the problem and we still need Mac Pro for many uses.

 

[kwikdeth]

I would instantly throw money at an apple silicon 1U rack server that was silent or near silent. If they can put one in an iPad ...

 

[zephonic]

I’m pretty sure Apple’s back end is entirely Azure or AWS, or maybe Oracle or whatever.

I think they may have some small server farm with Mac Minis or Studios for PR reasons, but no way they’re running their services on those.

 

[tenthousandthings]

I’m pretty sure Apple’s back end is entirely Azure or AWS, or maybe Oracle or whatever.

I think they may have some small server farm with Mac Minis or Studios for PR reasons, but no way they’re running their services on those.

The only thing we can be sure they will be using Apple silicon for is Private Cloud Compute, which requires it. If Apple builds a server, it will be dedicated to that.

 

[deconstruct60]

What a weird story. Of course they are working on new chips. Anything else would be a story.

It isn't 'weird' for Gurman. He writes a weekly rumor newsletter (PowerOn). Leaks don't happen on an entirely daily/weekly basis for an entire year. But he has to ship out content each week. So there is an irregular stream of "the sky is blue" topics covered.

Macrumors has the same problem. Every several weeks or so "new iPHone n+1 coming these are the features you might see. " . Folks who read MacRumors every day are like "same stuff , different day". More sporadic readers might read it as 'new' and possible forget that they read it the next time they stop by.

 

[zephonic]

I asked ChatGPT, and it states:

Apple employs a hybrid cloud infrastructure strategy, combining its own data centers with services from major cloud providers to support platforms like iCloud and Apple Intelligence.


☁️ Cloud Providers Utilized by Apple

• Amazon Web Services (AWS): Apple has been a significant customer of AWS since at least 2011, utilizing services like Amazon S3 for iCloud storage. Reports indicate that Apple spends over $30 million per month on AWS services, making it one of AWS’s largest clients.
• Google Cloud Platform (GCP): In 2016, Apple began leveraging Google Cloud for parts of its iCloud infrastructure. By 2021, Apple was reportedly storing approximately 8 million terabytes of data on Google’s cloud, with annual expenditures reaching around $300 million.
• Microsoft Azure: Initially, Apple used Microsoft Azure alongside AWS for iCloud services. However, by 2018, Apple had phased out its use of Azure in favor of other providers.

🏢 Apple’s Own Data Centers

To reduce dependency on third-party services, Apple has invested in building its own data centers across various locations, including:

• Mesa, Arizona: A facility repurposed from a former sapphire glass plant.
• Maiden, North Carolina: One of Apple’s earliest large-scale data centers.
• Viborg, Denmark: A European data center powered entirely by renewable energy.

These centers handle a significant portion of Apple’s cloud services, enhancing control over data security and operational efficiency.


🤖 AI and Machine Learning Infrastructure


For advanced AI capabilities, Apple has collaborated with Google to utilize its Tensor Processing Units (TPUs) for training AI models, including those powering features like Apple Intelligence. This partnership underscores Apple’s reliance on external cloud infrastructure for computationally intensive tasks.


In summary, Apple’s backend infrastructure is a blend of its proprietary data centers and services from AWS and Google Cloud, with a historical reliance on Microsoft Azure. This multifaceted approach allows Apple to maintain flexibility, scalability, and control over its cloud services.

 

[2128506]

I have yet to get Genmoji to actually give me either a) anything, or b) something that represents what I asked for.
Latest -- "Clock showing time at 3'oclock". What it produced was a clock with 3 hands pointing at 10,12, and 2 o'clock (plus a seconds hand!).

Most other attempts result in nothing. Another useless AI feature on my iPhone 16 PM.

Just wait till they release new iPhone with proper AI chips - would definitely work then!

 

[Axemantitan]

When Apple comes out with the M8 chips, I hope the Apple website says, "G'day M8!"

 

[Serrafemme]

Thank god! We are definitely going to need some beefy chips to run the next update for Image Playground on device…

If I wasn’t so in love with the rest of The Ecosystem I would’ve already moved on…

 

[Howard2k]

I’m pretty sure Apple’s back end is entirely Azure or AWS, or maybe Oracle or whatever.

I think they may have some small server farm with Mac Minis or Studios for PR reasons, but no way they’re running their services on those.

They are running services, but not fully, clearly.

The first tier of Apple AI is on device, the second tier is Private Cloud Compute (Apple Cloud), and the third tier is ChatGPT or other external provider.

 

[etichi]

I DO NOT WANT AI!

But AI wants you or at least your data.

 

[Edgecrusherr]

These are not server CPU’s in the normal sense ie like Xeon. These are specialist chips that will go into AI Servers dedicated for handling AI services in the Cloud.
Don’t expect OSX Server and xServe to be making a return with this.

Yeah, I'm not holding my breath