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They're not, they're using custom hardware.

Custom hardwares = M series based. Doesn't change the fact and they are running with M2 Ultra.
 
Not to be a d—k, but you say we know for a fact, and then link to two rumors?
It’s not hard to figure out: the first item is a fact (PCC nodes require Apple silicon), the next two items are rumors about that fact.
[…] But some people seem to think they have server farms with Minis/Studios, and I'm calling nonsense.

I do remember seeing some photos of a data center full of MacMinis, but I'm pretty sure none of those power Apple's cloud infrastructure. Hence my assessment those are mostly for PR (just so they can say Minis are a viable option for that use).
I think what you’re remembering might not have been an Apple installation. People have used Minis that way, just not Apple itself, at least to my knowledge. I could be wrong.
 
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I do remember seeing some photos of a data center full of MacMinis, but I'm pretty sure none of those power Apple's cloud infrastructure. Hence my assessment those are mostly for PR (just so they can say Minis are a viable option for that use).

Those would be third-party Co-Location sites, not Apple-run PR sites...

The only real "PR thing" I can think of would be the assorted "wall-of-machines" we see in past WWDC videos/keynotes; I recall Mac Pro rackmounts, and later a wall of Mac minis, maybe there was a wall of Mac Studios once, cannot clearly recall...
 
But the point I was making was no way are they deploying MacMinis or Studios at that scale, that makes no sense. So let me amend my original statement as follows:

I’m sure they have a datacenter somewhere with Minis/Studios for PR reasons. But I’m equally sure the heavy lifting is done by generic server hardware.

XCode Cloud isn't a PR reason. Quite likely that is done with Minis because that is the same foundation that other 3rd party coloc sites have used as a hardware foundation for their Continuous Integration/ Continuous Development (CI/CD) web service offerings. ( e.g., Amazon AWS , Macstadium. MacStadium pictures have been floated before. I think Apple used them once during a Mini upgrade presentation. )

I think XCode Cloud (XC) is stuck in time. Not sure if Apple is 'distracted' ( 'AI' PCC is the new 'shiny' they are only working on ) or price competitiveness is just lacking or service is off ( substantively geared to faster AppStore submission) , but it was still Intel based last I heard. ( instead of Studios , a narrow subset could be Mac Pro depending on how 'bulky' build task were/are. )
( e.g., about year ago https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/758342 )

Apple's policies on virtualization of macOS pushes CI/CD services toward individual devices. So Apple would be in the same bubble ( unless they wanted yet another lawsuit with the DoJ that they extremely likely would loose).

It may be that Apple prefers AWS, Azure, MacStadium buying Mini's and Studios more so that try to 'Sherlock' some of their best bulk Mac system buyers. XCode Code may fade away over time... but Apple is still soliciting new customers.


Similarly, for Apple's internal large scale build/test system. Probably more complete than XC , but a narrow subset of Fremont/Reno probably looks like what MacStadium runs.


For 1st generation rollout, Private Cloud Compute is likely in a similar 'boat' because Apple's response to "AI inference work done in cloud" growth is likely swamping their ability to get something custom out the door in time.

" ... The root of trust for Private Cloud Compute is our compute node: custom-built server hardware that brings the power and security of Apple silicon to the data center, with the same hardware security technologies used in iPhone, including the Secure Enclave and Secure Boot. We paired this hardware with a new operating system: a hardened subset of the foundations of iOS and macOS tailored to support Large Language Model (LLM) inference workloads ..."

While the devices that provide Apple AI escalation to PCC is a narrow subset of the Apple device user base , it is such a large group that there needs to be a substantive back end there sooner rather than later. PCC is similar to XC in that work is done for user and then files/data is thrown away (very 'cloud drive' centric for long term data storage). Probably different virtualization workload for different users constraint rules, but a studio logic board repurposed would not be a surprise ( Mac Pro toward / rack model is same board used twice to save on economies of scale. M1 Pro / M1 Max ... high overlap in base design, etc. etc. It is a standard Apple modus operandi , )

PCC is an AI interference platform. Some folks in this thread are focused on Apple's AI training issues problems. Apple can 'rent' that if need be. The scale of the inference problem once they get 20-30+% of their user base actively using Apple Intelligence all the time is much bigger issue. At that point, yeah it won't be racked Minis and/or Studios. But they aren't there yet.



P.S. very long term a more specific Cloud inference chip could be done , but likely geared to non GUI , no single user workloads. The cloud drive hyper centric would lead to Ethernet and internode connections that are also not very "Mac Pro" like also.

But for the more generic (non iOS/macOS specific apps ) workloads there are other ARM server chips that will likely be far more appropriate. Ampere (softbank bought them out and doesn't make sense to not sell the chips to anyone in the future. How going to make $6B back if not generate higher sales. Selling just to yourself , 'Stargate' , isn't going to work. ). Qualcomm is supposedly back in game selling to Saudis . Arm itself may have basic building blocks for sale. The vast majority of Apple's web services are Linux based and don't explicitly need an Apple "server" chip at all.
 
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Both are the same thing.
That’s not a safe assumption. There are things Apple could do to the Max in the Ultra to tailor it for the custom-built PCC node hardware. We don’t know.

We do, however, know they made changes to the original 2023 M3 Max for the 2025 M3 Ultra. So they have that ability.
 
Not to be a d—k, but you say we know for a fact, and then link to two rumors?

Anyway, that is specific to PCC which is a fairly new development. I acknowledged earlier that Apple is perfectly capable of designing their own AI server chips (see post #80).

But some people seem to think they have server farms with Minis/Studios, and I'm calling nonsense.

I do remember seeing some photos of a data center full of MacMinis, but I'm pretty sure none of those power Apple's cloud infrastructure. Hence my assessment those are mostly for PR (just so they can say Minis are a viable option for that use).
I would suspect those datacenters are less about PR and more likely to be build and qa testing machines. They’re likely real and plenty used, but they’re not where apple is handling AI or other major backend services from
 
Both are the same thing.

The Mx Ultra is a chip. The Mac Studio is a complete system. Not really the same. The M2 Ultra is used in both the Mac Studio and Mac Pro, those two are far from being the "same thing". Even the Mac Pro tower versus rack model technically isn't the "same thing" either.

Six Thunderbolt sockets won't have much utility in a data center context. The sound/noise requirements are not the same in a data center context (they could pull the logic board and slap it in a different case. that would be 'custom' hardware. ).
 
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The Mx Ultra is a chip. The Mac Studio is a complete system. Not really the same. The M2 Ultra is used in both the Mac Studio and Mac Pro, those two are far from being the "same thing". Even the Mac Pro tower versus rack model technically isn't the "same thing" either.

Six Thunderbolt sockets won't have much utility in a data center context. The sound/noise requirements are not the same in a data center context (they could pull the logic board and slap it in a different case. that would be 'custom' hardware. ).
Tell me if M2 Ultra is used elsewhere other than Studio and Pro. None.

Besides, since they cant make a Mac Pro grade chips, they'll need to stick with Mac Studio itself so doesn't change the fact.
 
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