Apple Working on Solution for EU Core Technology Fee Possibly Bankrupting Apps That Go Unexpectedly Viral

[cupcakes2000]

Affinity — not on Android
Procreate — not on Android
Photoshop (the real thing) - not on either
Cydia — a pirate iOS store?

So ya, the best apps are in iOS because superior APIs and OS allows those to be built.

Why aren’t they on Android?

Thanks for making my point 😉

The platform is irrelevant. This is about whether Apple has any rights to the success of the app.

Is Microsoft responsible for the success of Photoshop?

Owning the platform that has the app on it has nothing at all to do with whether a particular app is successful.

 

[cupcakes2000]

Anyway distributing a free
app is not a zero-cost activity for Apple.

they do distribute free apps in the AppStore for free aside the dev fee.

But why are they entitled to charge a fee for a free app outside of the AppStore?

Can’t you see that that’s ridiculous?

 

[cupcakes2000]

I dunno — maybe Google it.

Siri? Is that you?

 

[GroovyCatticus]

The platform is irrelevant. This is about whether Apple has any rights to the success of the app.

Is Microsoft responsible for the success of Photoshop?

Owning the platform that has the app on it has nothing at all to do with whether a particular app is successful.

Not sure why you keep bringing up Photoshop — not relevant to the App Store being a cross platform desktop app (which was first released on an Apple Mac in 1990, but I digress).

Back to the relevant apps that seem to only exist on iOS. Why do YOU think Affinity and Procreate aren’t on Android?

 

[BaldiMac]

tBut why are they entitled to charge a fee for a free app outside of the AppStore?

Same reason I charge a fee for a free app outside of the App Store. Because they provide value to the developer.

 

[cupcakes2000]

Not sure why you keep bringing up Photoshop — not relevant to the App Store being a cross platform desktop app (which was first released on an Apple Mac in 1990, but I digress).

Back to the relevant apps that seem to only exist on iOS. Why do YOU think Affinity and Procreate aren’t on Android?

It’s you that butted in on a conversation, at least follow the line of that original conversation.

 

[cupcakes2000]

Apple is a god to some people. The need to be controlled is strong in this and the many other threads. I’m bored with the same stuff over and over again.

I’m just very excited about my iPhone becoming more useful. Looking forwards to when it comes to my iPad too.

Over and out suckers.

 

[bsolar]

And your point? They should charge on other platforms? It should be free on iOS?

They could definitely make it free on iOS if they chose.

Please elaborate on what point you think you’re making 🤔

Obviously they can afford to charge for it on iOS but not on other platforms, otherwise they would be charging for it on other platforms too. Why would they leave money on the table?

A quick google search shows over 20 alternatives for Android but only a handful for iOS, so my guess is that there are more options on Android driving the price down, whereas on iOS that's not happening.

My point is that sometimes having a higher revenue is not due to a market being "superior": it might be because the market has inflated prices due to lack of competition failing to drive the prices down.

Said that, when you say that iOS APIs are good, it's absolutely true and one of the reason some applications exist on iOS/iPadOS but not on Android.

 

[GroovyCatticus]

It’s you that butted in on a conversation, at least follow the line of that original conversation.

Okay, so no answer to the lack of Affinity or Procreate on Android 👍🏼

Maybe Vestiger can force the devs to create an Android version and make it free. Make them an offer they can’t refuse 😉

The whipping will not stop until you COMPLY, because FREEDOM! 😂

 

[cyb3rdud3]

The platform is irrelevant. This is about whether Apple has any rights to the success of the app.

Is Microsoft responsible for the success of Photoshop?

Owning the platform that has the app on it has nothing at all to do with whether a particular app is successful.

You keep saying that the platform is irrelevant, but you can't seem to explain why that is so? If it truly was, why wouldn't such quality applications be available on other platforms with the same functionality, the same quality utility, etc.

There is a real difference, and that isn't just down to the developers but large what they have to work with. Same with how the apps can work together in a safe and secure manner. The EU doesn't get it, yet we are paying for them. Where is the alternative to the EU? They seem to be gatekeepers to me. And we pay for them? Heck, we even pay €114M each year for them to move between locations. The original idea and operation was cool, this isn't by a long stretch.

 

[GroovyCatticus]

Obviously they can afford to charge for it on iOS but not on other platforms, otherwise they would be charging for it on other platforms too. Why would they leave money on the table?

A quick google search shows over 20 alternatives for Android but only a handful for iOS, so my guess is that there are more options on Android driving the price down, whereas on iOS that's not happening.

My point is that sometimes having a higher revenue is not due to a market being "superior": it might be because the market has inflated prices due to lack of competition failing to drive the prices down.

Said that, when you say that iOS APIs are good, it's absolutely true and one of the reason some applications exist on iOS/iPadOS but not on Android.

Probably not a great example as this is not a standalone app, just a browser extension that modifies the page CSS to force a dark mode.

That’s why you see so many free versions — they are likely taking open source code and packaging it into an extension.

Now if the developer does a great job at exposing options in an intuitive way in the extension settings, they would be smart to charge. It sounds like a feature many people want.

Why won’t the Android market support this?

 

[bsolar]

Now if the developer does a great job at exposing options in an intuitive way in the extension settings, they would be smart to charge. It sounds like a feature many people want.

Well I consider Dark Reader worth the price, but it is kind of annoying that on iOS it has a price (and for a less powerful version too), but an Android or desktop user can get it for free (and not because they "pirate" the software as opposed to obtaining it legitimately or due to some other shenanigan).

I'm sure the developer appreciates the iOS revenue though.

 

[GroovyCatticus]

Well I consider Dark Reader worth the price, but it is kind of annoying that on iOS it has a price (and for a less powerful version too), but an Android or desktop user can get it for free (and not because they "pirate" the software as opposed to obtaining it legitimately or due to some other shenanigan).

I'm sure the developer appreciates the iOS revenue though.

There are free options on iOS too!

‎Dark Mode +

‎This is a practical Safari extension designed to provide you with a more comfortable night web browsing experience. It can add dark mode to the websites you browse. Effectively help you relieve eye fatigue and make you more comfortable to browse at night. MAIN FUNCTIONS - The new Safari web...

apps.apple.com

‎Auto Invert!

‎Auto Invert! for Safari is an extension that can reduce strain on the eyes and improve readability at night inverting its brightness without altering the color palette, images, and videos. Just click on the "A" icon of Auto Invert! to toggle automatically the feature in every tab of the website...

apps.apple.com

🤷🏻‍♂️

 

[Sophisticatednut]

No company does anything with the goal of scraping by or by setting max revenue goals. The model is base fee + commission and not someone else deciding the base fee is sufficient. Economies of scale are a companies business and their reward for taking risks. The profits, if any from the economies of scale roll into other products too, that are not related to the iPhone, and further subsidize improvements to the App Store.

The 150 million could easily be eaten up in labor cost alone. Software engineer of the caliper required to work on those API’s, as well as the App Store and all other related activities is around $250,000 a year, but that does not include the overhead related to those employees, which is approximately the same amount as their salaries. With that 150 million it would be reasonable to support the salaries of 300 engineers and I suspect a lot more people are involved in the process sides engineers.

Well I was wrong, they have minimum 34 million developer accounts.. so about 3.5 billion $.
And about 90% or so revenue is generated from gaming apps
And that’s ignoring revenue generated from iDevice sales.

They can earn whatever they want but must respect not to harm the market of smaller companies

Affinity — not on Android
Procreate — not on Android
Photoshop (the real thing) - not on either
Cydia — a pirate iOS store?

So ya, the best apps are in iOS because superior APIs and OS allows those to be built.

Why aren’t they on Android?

Thanks for making my point 😉

Cydia isn’t a pirate iOS store, it hosts genuine and unique apps and content, if you want to pirate you would need to find a third party source.

As usual, you post a bunch of unnecessary pictures that don't support your point and claim that they say things that they don't say. Nowhere is it ever said or implied that the $99 membership fee "covers the costs" of developer resources provided by Apple. Heck, the App Store alone cost billions to run as established in the Epic trial in the US.

Again, you are purposely misstating what was said in your source. A commission on the sale of apps is very different than a commission being for the sale of apps. Apple terms for developer membership include both a $99 fee and a commission on sales that meet specific terms.

You’re misunderstanding me, I’m not saying the membership fee covers all the cost Apple might have behind the scenes. But at face value the 99$ membership fee is what’s required to get access to all the tools, code libraries, assistance etc to publish apps for consumption by iOS customers.

The cost to run the iOS AppStore is separate. I would say the commission is the fee you pay for the sale being done on their platform and included payment solution.

If they think 99$ isn’t enough then they should increase the fee to what they think is necessary.

I'd clarify that the core fee is different based on new EU terms vs old terms, not App Store vs third-party. An app sold under the new terms through the App Store would still be subject to the fee.

That’s completely fair.

 

[bsolar]

There are free options on iOS too!

Yes, I know although some are questionable (e.g. I don't see why this kind of app should collect tracking data).

I assume they are not relevant enough to drive the price down for some reason.

 

[Sophisticatednut]

There are free options on iOS too!

‎Dark Mode +

‎This is a practical Safari extension designed to provide you with a more comfortable night web browsing experience. It can add dark mode to the websites you browse. Effectively help you relieve eye fatigue and make you more comfortable to browse at night. MAIN FUNCTIONS - The new Safari web...

apps.apple.com

‎Auto Invert!

‎Auto Invert! for Safari is an extension that can reduce strain on the eyes and improve readability at night inverting its brightness without altering the color palette, images, and videos. Just click on the "A" icon of Auto Invert! to toggle automatically the feature in every tab of the website...

apps.apple.com

🤷🏻‍♂️

One good thing with alternative browser engines is the ability to use better plugins in the browser that can actually block advertisements and forced redirects from some websites.

uBlock origin would be great, but it’s not available on iOS

 

[VulchR]

Apple is a god to some people. The need to be controlled is strong in this and the many other threads. I’m bored with the same stuff over and over again.

I’m just very excited about my iPhone becoming more useful. Looking forwards to when it comes to my iPad too.

Over and out suckers.

And Apple is the Devil incarnate to others... mostly for people who want something for nothing.

 

[cupcakes2000]

And Apple is the Devil incarnate to others... mostly for people who want something for nothing.

Apple devices are pretty pricy. I think that people that want something for nothing wouldn’t bother in the very first place. You can get any old Android crap for next to nothing. It’s like people don’t read what they post before they post it.

I have spent thousands and thousands on Apple gear in my life. My current studio contains 2 Mac minis, 2 iPhones, 2 iPad Pros 12.9, an Apple TV, and some HomePods, among lots of other stuff. If you think that was all free then I don’t know what to tell you.

I have also spent thousands on the App Store, including 30 per month actually back to Apple for their services.

That’s not free either.

I’ll continue to spend that kind of money.

None of that stops me or anyone else from wanting a freer system with which to download applications on iDevices. All it does is bring it inline with every other platform.

On the other side of the coin, half of the posters complaining don’t live in the eu, the other half can continue to solely use the AppStore. Both scenarios means the changes don’t even remotely affects them.

 

[BaldiMac]

You’re misunderstanding me, I’m not saying the membership fee covers all the cost Apple might have behind the scenes.

I'm not misunderstanding you. You're trying to move the goalposts. You originally said that Apple claimed that the developer fee was enough to cover the costs of Apple's resources. You went on the claim that 150 million per year was likely enough to break even. None of that is remotely true.

But at face value the 99$ membership fee is what’s required to get access to all the tools, code libraries, assistance etc to publish apps for consumption by iOS customers.

No, it's not. The full terms of the agreement were what was required. Not just the ones you pick and choose.

The cost to run the iOS AppStore is separate. I would say the commission is the fee you pay for the sale being done on their platform and included payment solution.

I know you'd say that because it fits your argument, but you are wrong. Apple decides what they are charging for. You don't get to decide what they are charging for just to make your argument easier.

If they think 99$ isn’t enough then they should increase the fee to what they think is necessary.

They did. They priced it at $99 plus the terms that included a commission.

 

[Hazmat401]

‘We’ ?! Wow. How ridiculous.

BTW, Your US congress has nothing whatsoever to do with EU regulations governing now business do business in EU territory. There are different laws, law makers and governments. What you think the US congress has to with it I have no idea.

How condescending… I’m aware of how the world works, thank you

I’m tryna put this in a way that avoids an infaction. Given the past 500 years of history. I’m convinced that whole part of the world does not know how to govern (USA isn’t perfect either) and regulate and get along with the rest of the world. After saving Europe twice…. I might not vote for a third if the EU is going to bully American companies because they can’t compete

And considering the fragile state of the world… Europe needs all the Friends she can get

 

[DoctorApple]

I have a free idea for Apple.

Cap the CTF fee accrued for the first 14 days after an app is introduced. This allows ample time for a developer to react if there’s a meteorite growth and decide if they want to use the new business model or return to the App Store for future download / transactions.

 

[Sogeman]

Umm, so you don’t have to suffer through bugs and poor power use?

You’re acting like I’m not honestly wishing you luck 🤔

I could care less about “alternative browser engines” besides from an introducing bugs and worse user experience point of view.

Knock yourself out!

From a Web development pov, Safari is the new Internet Explorer because it updates so infrequently and has weird quirks

 

[cupcakes2000]

How condescending… I’m aware of how the world works, thank you

I’m tryna put this in a way that avoids an infaction. Given the past 500 years of history. I’m convinced that whole part of the world does not know how to govern (USA isn’t perfect either) and regulate and get along with the rest of the world. After saving Europe twice…. I might not vote for a third if the EU is going to bully American companies because they can’t compete

And considering the fragile state of the world… Europe needs all the Friends she can get

what a weird place the road ends at in your view. A massive multinational behemoth, government regulation to help competition, world war 3.

The world’s a scary place, I guess.

 

[Beautyspin]

Hmm I dunno — maybe Google it.

Google What?

 

[Joe The Dragon]

I have a free idea for Apple.

Cap the CTF fee accrued for the first 14 days after an app is introduced. This allows ample time for a developer to react if there’s a meteorite growth and decide if they want to use the new business model or return to the App Store for future download / transactions.

and for apps that apple will not allow in the main store?