ApplePay Declined at Whole Foods with Chase.

Discussion in 'iPhone' started by nikhsub1, Dec 20, 2014.

  1. nikhsub1 macrumors 68000

    nikhsub1

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    #1
    WTF Chase? So, my $229 marketing purchase at Whole Foods with Apple Pay was declined by Chase. Why? Suspected fraud on the transaction??!! I mean, there can not be fraud with Apple Pay so why the hell would the bank decline this? Of course, when I use the card with the PIN number manually the transaction goes right though. Makes no sense.
     
  2. cmdrdredd macrumors member

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    #2
    The thumb print is even more secure than using a pin number. That's kind of stupid on their part. I'd call them and complain because they are on the list of partner banks for this.
     
  3. KPOM macrumors G5

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    #3
    To be fair, someone who stole your phone and knew your password could use Apple Pay, so they won't completely turn off the fraud detection.
     
  4. nikhsub1 thread starter macrumors 68000

    nikhsub1

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    #4
    I did. The supervisor in the fraud dept HAD NO IDEA HOW APPLE PAY WORKS. Furthermore she said that the Chase system does not differentiate Apple Pay from a regular credit card swiped transaction. How ****ing stupid is that?

    How if it needs YOUR thumbprint? And someone who stole MY CARD and knew my PIN would be more likely yet, that went through no problem...
     
  5. T5BRICK macrumors 604

    T5BRICK

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    #5
    Most people aren't going to know how it works. The geeks on this forum are a tiny percentage of the rest of the world.

    Why would they differentiate between the two? It is the same transaction on their end.
     
  6. Zxxv macrumors 68040

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    #6
    with your password they unlock your phone and set up new thumbprints.
     
  7. JayLenochiniMac macrumors G5

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    #7
    Maybe find a better bank like Amex, which does a good job of labeling if a transaction is done with Apple Pay. However, my guess is it was flagged because you don't normally make large purchases at places like Whole Foods so it would have been flagged anyway with a regular swiped transaction.

    You can deselect use TouchID for Apple Pay in settings and pay with your passcode instead so it isn't a given that all Apple Pay transactions are done with TouchID.
     
  8. nikhsub1 thread starter macrumors 68000

    nikhsub1

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    #8
    If Apple Pay is the most secure form a payment on the planet ATM, wouldn't it be nice if your bank didn't decline that payment? If the banks can't tell the difference between an NFC payment and a swiped card payment then Apple Pay is essentially useless.
     
  9. Shikaka macrumors regular

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    #9
    Does the total dollar amount make any difference? I've only made small purchases without issues.

    Funny thing is that both times I used ApplePay at Wholefoods, it was super crowded and the person behind me got upset because they thought I was texting. The first time I pulled out my phone the guy behind me groaned loudly, "C'mon man!"

    On the second occasion the lady behind me started aggressively saying, "Excuse me! Excuse me!" I didn't say a word. Just grabbed my receipt, thanked the cashier and kept going.
     
  10. nikhsub1 thread starter macrumors 68000

    nikhsub1

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    #10
    Not sure. The stupidest part is that used as an ATM card, which is the WORST THING TO DO for security reasons, the transaction went right though. They said because they knew it was me because I had to enter the PIN :rolleyes: This all goes back to the bank detecting an Apple Pay transaction as it would be the most secure of all. But Chase does not differentiate. Geniuses.
     
  11. cmdrdredd macrumors member

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    #11
    Hah...I have used my phone to pay before and the guy at Outdoor World behind me was impressed actually. "I always forget my wallet in the truck, that's a slick idea"

    I too wonder if the amount would make a difference. What is odd though is that if Chase doesn't differentiate between the actual card and the device why would one be flagged and declined and the other work without issues? That sounds like the guy on the phone didn't know what he was talking about.
     
  12. rigormortis, Dec 20, 2014
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2014

    rigormortis macrumors 68000

    rigormortis

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    #12
    rigor's reasons why cards get declined
    ----
    1/ you do not have enough available credit, duh
    2/ your zip code or shipping address are wrong
    3/ you entered the wrong 3 digit code on the back of the card
    4/ the authorization center is at fault
    5/ they suspect fraud
    6/ maybe the card wasn't activated on apple pay
    7/new feature----- > your email address is wrong*
    8/you give them the wrong expiration date.**
    9/you forgot to activate the card



    when i used to work retail, what pissed me off royally was when someone comes into the store and the status says " call center " . no big deal. you call the authorization center to verify the identity or purchase. they do this to flag the card, and until someone calls the center, the card will not accept a charge,

    managers do not let us cashiers call voice authorization center is because the liability deal only covers swiped cards. if someone comes in and the terminal says its declined, but their is money available, i am not allowed to phone in your $5 purchase because they are afraid you can charge me back, because i do not have a swipe.

    i have had several managers personally BAN me from calling for voice authorization , because they do not know anything or they believe the merchant fee is higher for a voice transaction then it is on a regular automated one

    until a merchant actually calls that authorization center on "call center" status, the card will refuse all charges until someone calls the center. a bunch of failed attempts to buy something, just makes it look worse.

    retail stores are so paranoid about chargebacks that cashiers are no longer trained what to do when a charge does not go through.



    * - new feature. i found out recently with verified by visa if you do not give them your correct email address, they will deny the charge

    ** - back in the 80s to 90s you could just make up an expiration date, as long as it was in the future the card would go through, ever since then they started actually checking to make sure the expiration date matches the card


    when a card comes back declined, the business has the ability to double check the decline and to phone the card in, but the managers won't let us do this.
     
  13. KPOM macrumors G5

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    #13
    The password is there as a backup in case you have an issue getting your fingerprint to register. I used it last week in a cab.
     
  14. JayLenochiniMac macrumors G5

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    #14
    While it would be nice if all banks are able to differentiate them at point of sale (as Amex does), some banks not doing this doesn't make Apple Pay useless as you still reap the protection of tokenization.
     
  15. nikhsub1 thread starter macrumors 68000

    nikhsub1

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    #15
    No. If my card gets declined via Apple Pay because they suspect fraud, I get zero benefit of anything Apple Pay has to offer. This is why banks not being able to detect the difference is incredibly stupid. If Chase was able to somehow know the transaction was being done via Apple Pay they would have let the transaction through.
     
  16. JayLenochiniMac macrumors G5

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    #16
    Did you ask Chase why they declined the transaction at point of sale? They should be able to give you a specific reason for suspecting fraud. Notice they would have declined the transaction had you used the swiped method too so it's best to get to the root of the problem.
     
  17. nikhsub1 thread starter macrumors 68000

    nikhsub1

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    #17
    I did. They said they suspected fraud. I used my card to pay for the parking meter (all of them in LA take plastic). They said that because there was a small charge of $1, that triggered fraud :mad: If their fraud software had any sense they would see that the meter was at the location of the market. Chase are idiots. They once let $4000 go through that WAS fraud, online transaction with no card yet they decline $229 at a supermarket with the card present. :rolleyes:
     
  18. JayLenochiniMac macrumors G5

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    #18
    I guess their fraud algorithm is imperfect. Fraudsters are known to make a small charge to test the card's validity right before racking up large charges. This has nothing to do with Apple Pay, but Chase should implement a better algorithm like Amex or Citi.
     
  19. bronzini macrumors member

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    #19
    Like Citi? I have to laugh at that one. I think Amex has the best. My managers Citi card got declined for suspected fraud (hint: he works for citi) and it was a nightmare trying to get another card, etc.
     
  20. nikhsub1 thread starter macrumors 68000

    nikhsub1

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    #20
    The point of this thread is: If all banks recognized Apple Pay payments then they would never be declined.
     
  21. question fear macrumors 68020

    question fear

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    #21
    I moved my checking away from Chase because of stuff like that. Their fraud algorithm is wacky.
     
  22. JayLenochiniMac macrumors G5

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    #22
    Citi detected fraudulent use at point-of-sale just as well as Amex (occurring in the same store and around the same time) in my case. I later figured out that a couple months prior, I tried to use my Amex card and the cashier pretended that it didn't work so I handed him my Citi Dividend card, which went through. Hence both were skimmed at the same time. A clone of each card was used at Best Buy for the same attempted charge and stopped cold by the respective companies.
     
  23. erzhik macrumors 6502

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    #23
    Their system suspected fraud, therefore your card was declined. This happens. And it doesn't matter if you paid with ApplePay. Thumbprints are easy to go around. I mean, their fraud system is there for your protection. I'm sure you would be happy that it declined if it was in fact fraud. Banks will not blindly trust Apple to eliminate fraud transactions. Banks are losing millions for fraudulent activities, they are just covering their ass and yours.
     
  24. nikhsub1 thread starter macrumors 68000

    nikhsub1

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    #24
    While I agree for the most part, the card was SWIPED and still declined. Not only that, this seems to happen EVERY time I go to the supermarket... happens at Trader Joes too for some reason. Yet, when there was actual fraud on my account to the tune of $4k, they let that bad boy through without question until I discovered it.

    Banks seem to have different scenarios as to when a fraud alert is tripped. Usually, the most insecure purchases are online where no physical card can be verified. This is sort of defcon 5. Transactions where the card is present usually have a higher threshold before fraud is tripped. Apple Pay should be at the very TOP of this list since it would in fact be the hardest to break/crack.
     
  25. bronzini macrumors member

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    #25
    My Citi corporate card was apparently cloned when I used on a business trip to Tampa in June. Won't say name of restaurant, BUT in Sept I got a notification of a charge posted to my account ( we get them automatically) and it was a charge made in Brazil. Had to have been in restaurant since the coincidence with the charge being made in a country with the same name was strange. Also, in hindsight, it took forever before the came back with our cards. One would think the fact that no Brazil airfare was charged to card would have kicked out a $400 charge made in Brazil in Brazilian dollars.

    Glad your experience was better.
     

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