Apple's A7 Processor Truly 'Desktop Class', iOS Apps Don't Take Full Advantage

[Atlantico]

Desktop class is as far removed from any ARM based SOC as is possible.

Claiming the A7 is desktop class is obviously a high-point of self-delusion and fanboi-ism, but further seems to indicate very low expectations of what constitutes a desktop PC.

An iMac is a laptop on a stick.

A desktop class computer is like science fiction to people who rely on tablets, phones and laptops for their computer experience.

 

[Kariya]

Desktop class is as far removed from any ARM based SOC as is possible.

Claiming the A7 is desktop class is obviously a high-point of self-delusion and fanboi-ism, but further seems to indicate very low expectations of what constitutes a desktop PC.

An iMac is a laptop on a stick.

A desktop class computer is like science fiction to people who rely on tablets, phones and laptops for their computer experience.

...and yet the fact(s) that these claims are indeed valid are there for all to see.

But feel free to continue being dismissive.

 

[jacobj]

Not to mention iWork, Photoshop, and many productivity apps...

Apple's new "nano computer"...

I have the latest 15" MacBook Pro and that thing stutters when using multiple layers and luminosity masks in PS on the D800 files. These processors are way off being any use for PS.

 

[\-V-/]

Apple's A7 Processor Truly 'Desktop Class', iOS Apps Don't Take Full Advantage

...and yet the fact(s) that these claims are indeed valid are there for all to see.



But feel free to continue being dismissive.

The problem is he's comparing it to a Mac Pro... which has nothing to do with the comparison being discussed.

I have the latest 15" MacBook Pro and that thing stutters when using multiple layers and luminosity masks in PS on the D800 files. These processors are way off being any use for PS.

Do you have the 15" with the dedicated GPU?

 

[Exhale]

So the Surface Pro has 87% of the battery life of an iPad 4 while surfing WiFi (low RAM use) and 57% of the battery life while playing video (heavy RAM use).

Actually, video playback does not require that much RAM. In addition, the cost is identical whether your're accessing 1GB or 4GB. What requires power with RAM is keeping the memory cells refreshed. This is entirely a passive cost. But don't make the newbie mistake of assuming more memory = more power required here either. Higher density modules require less power per memory cell.

In your example its the H.264 decoder in the CPU/GPU that requires power, and the H.264 hardware decoder is not very power efficient (yet) in Intel's systems, hence the suffering battery during movie playback.

 

[maflynn]

I'm skeptical that the A7 is a true desktop class CPU, I think it will not be as fast as anything that Intel provides especially when it comes to multitasking, or multithreaded apps.

I hope Apple doesn't bring the A7 to its mac line, I'd much rather use a Mac with an intel chip.

 

[Bah-Bah]

For casual use such as email, word processing, typical office and admin stuff it's probably fine and would most likely provide epic battery life in laptop form.

Serious video editing, 3D graphics and any similar heavy lifting....Not so much.

 

[ageha]

The A7 is only a desktop class CPU by ARM standards. There have been many ARM powered desktops in the past but I don't wanna work on either of them.

 

[Merkie]

Absolutely wrong. This "1GB is sufficient" is very frequently stated by Apple fanboys - see my just-posted link & quotation at https://forums.macrumors.com/posts/18945816/

This is just one guy. More RAM is convenient, especially on iPads. I won't upgrade my iPad 3 until the new one has 2GB RAM (or more).

 

[maflynn]

The A7 is only a desktop class CPU by ARM standards. There have been many ARM powered desktops in the past but I don't wanna work on either of them.

MS tried this in a sense with their the Windows RT and it really hasn't gone over well. While most windows rt uses are for tablets, they do have those convertible tablets. Either way I'd not want to use windows rt

 

[akbarali.ch]

No one forces you not to love tab reloads in Safari or minimized app kills in the OS. All the wonders of 1GB RAM, particularly on the more memory-hungry iPads. With 2GB of RAM, this wouldn't be that big an issue. And, again, 2GB of RAM certainly wouldn't have resulted in any battery life decrease. After all, Surface Pro 2 users with 8GB of RAM (that's eight times more than in iDevices!) don't complain about unbearable battery life either. Neither does the AnandTech review: http://www.anandtech.com/show/7478/microsoft-surface-pro-2-firmware-update-improves-battery-life



You don't seem to follow professional iOS game reviews written by people comparing iOS ports of desktop / console titles, do you? For example, the above-mentioned XCOM: Enemy unknown (probably the only AAA quality, almost-direct console port on iOS) reviews all pointed out the iOS port had to lower the texture quality because of the significantly lower RAM. That is, the difference in texture quality is certainly visible - as opposed to what you stated.

For example: http://toucharcade.com/2013/06/19/xcom-enemy-unknown-review/ :

" The more I look at the game, the more I'm noticing bits and pieces of asset compression, which makes it look like a "low res" port. "

etc.



They already have some huge margins on all their products. Including another 1GB of RAM at least in the iPad (as it's suffering from the lack of RAM a lot more than the iPhone) would have cost Apple some $5. It's a win for them - and a huge loss for users that have to put up with constant tab / app reloads.



Why would it? It does have the potential. While, due to the complex nature of my apps (and some libraries, for example, ZXing, only supporting 32-bit), I haven't ported my own AppStore apps to 64-bit, I'm absolutely certain there would be a performance boost in, for example, my pathfinder algorithms when properly optimized for 64 bits. The same (64-bit optimized & compiled apps do result in a performance boost) is stated by the AnandTech reviews.

The point i was trying to make is that as the screen becomes larger the productivity/utlilities increases and so you need more RAM/ more processing core/ 64-bit bandwidth. Capabilities of ipad like form factor are more than what ipad currently stands for. so, all the hardware expansion that any company can put in is beneficial. Ipad Air with just 1GB is stupidity, its should be between 3-4GB. But for a phone, its coming closer to saturation.

 

[sbrhwkp3]

The current ipad does more than just email and web browsing

Thanks for pointing that out. I had no idea.

 

[ChrisCW11]

Lmao

So why then will the iPhone 6 have an A8 in it if there is no iOS app that takes advantage of the A7?

Why not have a few cost-effective generations of iDevices that bring down the cost rather then trying to always put bleeding edge into every release, especially when the market has not reached a point to take advantage of it. Why not "evolve" the A7 to make it use less power in upcoming phones until phone apps reach a point where they actually tax the architecture. I'd rather an A7 that lasts multiple days then an A8 that lasts 4 hours.

I mean Apple is just contradicting themselves if they say nobody is fully utilizing A7, but then proudly announce a new generation of A8 CPU in the iPhone 6 that is so much better then the A7???

Is Apple so hungry for profit that they need to create artificial features like gemstone displays and powerful CPU's nobody uses fully just to continue to justify a 400% markup in price? There is nothing wrong with glass, and there is nothing wrong with the A7, so forget about sapphire and the A8 for a few generations.

 

[tbrinkma]

I'm not condescending. ...I just can't take [the person/people I'm taking to] seriously...

Nope. Not condescending at all...

 

[powers74]

I'm skeptical that the A7 is a true desktop class CPU, I think it will not be as fast as anything that Intel provides especially when it comes to multitasking, or multithreaded apps.

I hope Apple doesn't bring the A7 to its mac line, I'd much rather use a Mac with an intel chip.

The A7 is only a desktop class CPU by ARM standards. There have been many ARM powered desktops in the past but I don't wanna work on either of them.

MS tried this in a sense with their the Windows RT and it really hasn't gone over well. While most windows rt uses are for tablets, they do have those convertible tablets. Either way I'd not want to use windows rt

More than anything, I'd say it's Apple launching an empty ICBM for Intel to see.

So why then will the iPhone 6 have an A8 in it if there is no iOS app that takes advantage of the A7?

Why not have a few cost-effective generations of iDevices that bring down the cost rather then trying to always put bleeding edge into every release, especially when the market has not reached a point to take advantage of it. Why not "evolve" the A7 to make it use less power in upcoming phones until phone apps reach a point where they actually tax the architecture. I'd rather an A7 that lasts multiple days then an A8 that lasts 4 hours.

I mean Apple is just contradicting themselves if they say nobody is fully utilizing A7, but then proudly announce a new generation of A8 CPU in the iPhone 6 that is so much better then the A7???

Is Apple so hungry for profit that they need to create artificial features like gemstone displays and powerful CPU's nobody uses fully just to continue to justify a 400% markup in price? There is nothing wrong with glass, and there is nothing wrong with the A7, so forget about sapphire and the A8 for a few generations.

I can't believe I just read this.

 

[linuxcooldude]

OK, now I see what you mean.

Let me phrase my argument this way: "Apple fanboys tend to state Apple did the right and best thing when only delivering even the latest iDevices with 1GB of RAM".

Again, this argument is technically nonsense. Anyone knowing the battery life of competing 2GB RAM-equipped WP products (the Nokia 1020) know the additional power usage of having to constantly power on an additional 1GB of RAM is negligble and in no way result in vastly inferior battery life. (Again, I purposefully not list 2/3GB Android phones because their OS is far less battery-friendly than either iOS or WP and, consequently, don't represent a battery-wise ideal OS.)

And there isn't a space / volume constraint either - after all, for example the Nexus 7 2013, which has a considerably smaller volume than the Retina iPad Mini / Air, has managed to pack in 2GB of RAM. The volume argument ("2GB of RAM would take far more volume") is also very often cited by Apple fanboys - by the above-cited "gaussian blur" over at DPR as well.

All in all, this is why I consider the argument "1GB is the best compromise" fanboyish. Because it's simply not true, neither battery life- nor volume-wise.

All mobile phones are a compromise in price, battery life and many other variables.

Just saying because another phone has 2GB Ram so should the iPhone. Its a different phone with different hardware. I'm not familiar with that phone, but for all I know it could use an under powered processor for that model that adding additional ram would not impact battery life or price.

 

[Jimmy James]

Absolutely wrong. This "1GB is sufficient" is very frequently stated by Apple fanboys - see my just-posted link & quotation at https://forums.macrumors.com/posts/18945816/

"I want more ram" is stated even more often.

 

[Menneisyys2]

"I want more ram" is stated even more often.

... but, in most cases, not from die-hard Apple loyalists...

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Capabilities of ipad like form factor are more than what ipad currently stands for. so, all the hardware expansion that any company can put in is beneficial. Ipad Air with just 1GB is stupidity, its should be between 3-4GB. But for a phone, its coming closer to saturation.

Exactly, this is what I've been saying all the time in this # by, many times, referring to

- the Retina iPads' needing a lot more memory to render the same Web page than iPhones having much less screen resoltuion
- their not affected by the more power consumption of the additional RAM that much (6,471mAh (rMini)/ 8,820mAh (Air) vs. 1,560 mAh (5S))
- their having more volume for additional RAM chips if Apple would go the "separate RAM chips" way

 

[linuxcooldude]

No he's right. It's brand loyalists that aren't going to be taken seriously (and hitting? Seriously? We're a on a forum dude! ). I could name a few off the top of my head on this site. No real tech person would take anyone "brand loyalist" seriously because they can justify anything a company does even when it's below what the competition offers. All they care about is that it looks cool and has a logo on it.

We also have brand haters too. Saying people who justify Apple when the competition offers better is only buying in to their own bias. Which is ironic considering its just as wrong.

Example: iPad mini was introduced with a non-retina display. The Nexus 7 had a retina display and was cheaper. Last year the mini gets updated with a retina and has a price increase. Heck the iPad Air is STILL at 16GB at $500! That's pathetic! The competition offers much more for much less. In many ways, the iPad is behind. Heck the iPhone is rumored to get a bigger screen this year. So what? It's been done. I'm already enjoying a 4.7" screen for almost two years now!

I had a friend just return his second new Nexus 7 tablet. Both due to the same screen problem. Got his money back and bought an iPad with no further problems. You may think your getting more for less. But price can effect quality, usually due to cost cutting somewhere.

The competition could not compete with apple on price point/quality at the $500 mark. They had to go much lower in the $200.00 range.

 

[sundragon]

Wait! I thought 1GB is more than sufficient and there would be no point in having 2GB of RAM in any iDevice! (At least Apple fanboys state this...)

Google (search) a few things so we are both on the same page.

Android ART - the replacement for Dalvik and look up why Google is replacing Dalvik on Android.

http://www.extremetech.com/computin...-dalvik-to-boost-performance-and-battery-life

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1BesOlQb8c

https://source.android.com/devices/tech/dalvik/art.html

http://lifehacker.com/android-art-vs-dalvik-runtimes-effect-on-battery-life-1507264545

Now then, you remember VM, that thing which is RAM hungry and requires a lot of resources.

Look up the critique of running the entire Android OS in VMs. Consider the efficiency for RAM and responsiveness when Android's UI is running in VM.

http://phandroid.com/2013/09/24/iph...n-android-devices-according-to-new-benchmark/

Google's "Butter" was an attempt to correct this but the realization is that they can't run everything in VM because it's RAM HUNGRY and reduces overall responsiveness (NOT just on boot)...

So Google's rolling out ART - but at the rate Android gets updated on old handsets (less than 3% currently for 4.4 after 6 months) this is going to take a long time. (http://developer.android.com/about/dashboards/index.html?utm_source=ausdroid.net)

iOS is NATIVE CODE - Google that (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_(computing). It doesn't run in VM, doesn't require as much RAM.
Furthermore, on the iPad Air and iPhone 5S iOS and all Apple applications are also written in ARMv8 (64-bit), which means they are native to the A7 and take advantage of the newer architecture (faster/more efficient).

YES, two gigs of RAM would be fine, but for the sake of argument. I can do everything I want on my phone - email, IM, instagram, facebook, call people (YEAH WOW), play games (some of the same ones on Android) and don't hit a RAM wall.
On Android (my Nexus 7s both illustrated this) I needed the additional RAM because of the architecture...
You may want to run 24 Apps (launch the space shuttle, run a torrent, run an apache server, etc) on your Android device but 99.5% of the world's population doesn’t... Honestly, that's the population most people sell to...

So:
1. RAM is important
2. RAM is MOAR important to Android because of architecture than it is on iOS.
3. YES, there will be MOAR RAM on iOS devices in the future, but it's not a fire sale emergency as it is on Android - Google knows this and has implemented a fix but their fantastic way of updating old handsets (not really happening) means most of the world's Android users won't see it for a few years...

xoxo

 

[firewood]

Desktop class is as far removed from any ARM based SOC as is possible.

Must be a newbie computer user. I've been using big compute servers for a couple decades now, that kind that easily beat any desktop contemporary to them for CAD/CAE/modeling. Only thing holding back a rack of A7 cores is a big multi-kilowatt power supply and chip packaging and system (water) cooling to match.

Intel, IBM and Fujitsu know that A7's can get repackaged in something that can use a big heat sink.

 

[linuxcooldude]

Google (search) a few things so we are both on the same page.

Android ART - the replacement for Dalvik and look up why Google is replacing Dalvik on Android.

http://www.extremetech.com/computin...-dalvik-to-boost-performance-and-battery-life

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1BesOlQb8c

https://source.android.com/devices/tech/dalvik/art.html

http://lifehacker.com/android-art-vs-dalvik-runtimes-effect-on-battery-life-1507264545

Now then, you remember VM, that thing which is RAM hungry and requires a lot of resources.

Look up the critique of running the entire Android OS in VMs. Consider the efficiency for RAM and responsiveness when Android's UI is running in VM.

http://phandroid.com/2013/09/24/iph...n-android-devices-according-to-new-benchmark/

Google's "Butter" was an attempt to correct this but the realization is that they can't run everything in VM because it's RAM HUNGRY and reduces overall responsiveness (NOT just on boot)...

So Google's rolling out ART - but at the rate Android gets updated on old handsets (less than 3% currently for 4.4 after 6 months) this is going to take a long time. (http://developer.android.com/about/dashboards/index.html?utm_source=ausdroid.net)

iOS is NATIVE CODE - Google that (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_(computing). It doesn't run in VM, doesn't require as much RAM.
Furthermore, on the iPad Air and iPhone 5S iOS and all Apple applications are also written in ARMv8 (64-bit), which means they are native to the A7 and take advantage of the newer architecture (faster/more efficient).

YES, two gigs of RAM would be fine, but for the sake of argument. I can do everything I want on my phone - email, IM, instagram, facebook, call people (YEAH WOW), play games (some of the same ones on Android) and don't hit a RAM wall.
On Android (my Nexus 7s both illustrated this) I needed the additional RAM because of the architecture...
You may want to run 24 Apps (launch the space shuttle, run a torrent, run an apache server, etc) on your Android device but 99.5% of the world's population doesn’t... Honestly, that's the population most people sell to...

So:
1. RAM is important
2. RAM is MOAR important to Android because of architecture than it is on iOS.
3. YES, there will be MOAR RAM on iOS devices in the future, but it's not a fire sale emergency as it is on Android - Google knows this and has implemented a fix but their fantastic way of updating old handsets (not really happening) means most of the world's Android users won't see it for a few years...

xoxo

While I'm quite familiar with how Dalvik is used to run Android applications, I did not think how it might impact RAM usage. Looking it up, it seems each application needs its own instance of Dalvik VM to run. So I could see how Android might need more ram. Great post.

 

[Menneisyys2]

Another thread just opened on the "wonders" of the meager 1GB RAM in Retina iPads and its effect on the Web browsing experience:

https://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=18948487

And it's just one example of those (numerous) threads. I'm linking to it because it was opened a few hours ago, proving tab reloading is a major issue plaguing the life of many iPad users.

----------

1. RAM is important
2. RAM is MOAR important to Android because of architecture than it is on iOS.
3. YES, there will be MOAR RAM on iOS devices in the future, but it's not a fire sale emergency as it is on Android - Google knows this and has implemented a fix but their fantastic way of updating old handsets (not really happening) means most of the world's Android users won't see it for a few years...

Please note that in every post directly comparing iOS to alternatives I did point out I only compared iOS to Windows Phone and did explicitly state in every single post that I'm not asking for 2GB of RAM because Android devices have 2/3GB RAM. I know the inherent problems of the OS well enough - problems missing in both WP / WinRT and iOS.

I did state it's the Nokia 1020 (and the other WP phones / WinRT tablets) having 2+GB of RAM that I'm comparing iOS to.

 

[gotluck]

So:
1. RAM is important
2. RAM is MOAR important to Android because of architecture than it is on iOS.
3. YES, there will be MOAR RAM on iOS devices in the future, but it's not a fire sale emergency as it is on Android - Google knows this and has implemented a fix but their fantastic way of updating old handsets (not really happening) means most of the world's Android users won't see it for a few years...

xoxo

These items really only apply to android devices with heavy skins. It isn't necessarily an android problem, moreso an OEM problem (much like all the crap that gets bundled with windows PC's).

Kit Kat devices with stock android are completely different.

check out this free ram..

my android device has more free resources for applications than my iOS device has for everything

 

[linuxcooldude]

Another thread just opened on the "wonders" of the meager 1GB RAM in Retina iPads and its effect on the Web browsing experience:

https://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=18948487

And it's just one example of those (numerous) threads. I'm linking to it because it was opened a few hours ago, proving tab reloading is a major issue plaguing the life of many iPad users.

----------



Please note that in every post directly comparing iOS to alternatives I did point out I only compared iOS to Windows Phone and did explicitly state in every single post that I'm not asking for 2GB of RAM because Android devices have 2/3GB RAM. I know the inherent problems of the OS well enough - problems missing in both WP / WinRT and iOS.

I did state it's the Nokia 1020 (and the other WP phones / WinRT tablets) having 2+GB of RAM that I'm comparing iOS to.

While you did specifically mention Window phones does not remove the fact of the inherent problems mentioned in his post. But even with Windows phones, its not optimized when it goes out to the various models of phones by different manufactures.

Since Apples makes both the phone and operating system its more highly optimized for the hardware. It runs more efficiently with less RAM. In older iPhones were getting better performance with only 512MB RAM especially with screen lag, then compared with other phones.