Apple's A7 Processor Truly 'Desktop Class', iOS Apps Don't Take Full Advantage

[MacAndor]

Setting aside your strawman argument, a RAM bottleneck refers to the speed of the RAM, not the amount of memory.

Well, no... bottleneck refers to ANY kind of attribute in the given component that effects the working of other components in a NEGATIVE way.

So low amount of memory is a bottleneck if the CPU has to wait for swapping while it could be doing much more work.

 

[Menneisyys2]

While you did specifically mention Window phones does not remove the fact of the inherent problems mentioned in his post. But even with Windows phones, its not optimized when it goes out to the various models of phones by different manufactures.

I have never debated iOS is much better optimized than, say, Android. (This is why I've been constantly declaring "Android models need not apply" in thsi very #.)

Nevertheless, there are sore points in iOS, which really plague the life of particularly (as opposed to iPhone ones) iPad users (because of the much more memory needed for screen buffering than on iPhones). One of them is tab reloading (and, particularly before iOS7.1, Safari crashing) directly caused by the huuuuge memory needs of UIWebView's particular implementation. Which has been a major issue ever since the iPhone OS 2 days. Even back then developers (and ever since) constantly complained about UIWebView's being very memory-hungry.

The latter problem could easily be helped by simply providing 2GB of RAM in iPads, which, as I've explained in this # several times, wouldn't have much hit on the battery life either. And, with 2GB, other goodies would also follow; for example, much less backgrounded-app-killing etc. This is why 2GB would be a must and I am in no way can applaud Apple for not including it in the latest crops of iPads.

 

[sundragon]

These items really only apply to android devices with heavy skins. It isn't necessarily an android problem, moreso an OEM problem (much like all the crap that gets bundled with windows PC's).

Kit Kat devices with stock android are completely different.

check out this free ram..

my android device has more free resources for applications than my iOS device has for everything

Right, which is why Google is tackling the issue, not the OEMs... All the articles I posted present to the opposite. Please let me know via a link to some proof other than the screenshot from your phone...

This isn't about "Free RAM" it's a larger underlying issue that each app and the UI on Android REQUIRE a separate Dalvik instance which adds up.

This is inefficient and is why you see quad core 2.2 GHZ SOCs and multiple gigabytes of RAM required to make Android run smoothly.

 

[Menneisyys2]

Well, no... bottleneck refers to ANY kind of attribute in the given component that effects the working of other components in a NEGATIVE way.

So low amount of memory is a bottleneck if the CPU has to wait for swapping while it could be doing much more work.

And let's also point out that BaldiMac was completely wrong. As I've also directly cited at https://forums.macrumors.com/posts/18945794/ , the original article did state it was the size of RAM that is the bottleneck, not the speed of it (or any other parameter).

 

[sundragon]

Another thread just opened on the "wonders" of the meager 1GB RAM in Retina iPads and its effect on the Web browsing experience:

https://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=18948487

And it's just one example of those (numerous) threads. I'm linking to it because it was opened a few hours ago, proving tab reloading is a major issue plaguing the life of many iPad users.

----------



Please note that in every post directly comparing iOS to alternatives I did point out I only compared iOS to Windows Phone and did explicitly state in every single post that I'm not asking for 2GB of RAM because Android devices have 2/3GB RAM. I know the inherent problems of the OS well enough - problems missing in both WP / WinRT and iOS.

I did state it's the Nokia 1020 (and the other WP phones / WinRT tablets) having 2+GB of RAM that I'm comparing iOS to.

Respectfully,

I didn't know nor read your responses. My response is not refering with what you posted so there is no direct correlation. If you'd like to respond to what I postulate and my references directly, let's have at it.

 

[gotluck]

Right, which is why Google is tackling the issue, not the OEMs... All the articles I posted present to the opposite. Please let me know via a link to some proof other than the screenshot from your phone...

So my phone is some kind of anomaly?

Many Nexus/Motorola/GPE users can attest to this...

I suppose it is worth mentioning these devices can already run ART, and mine is.

 

[sundragon]

So my phone is some kind of anomaly?

Many Nexus/Motorola/GPE users can attest to this...

I suppose it is worth mentioning these devices can already run ART, and mine is.

No, it's not an anomaly, respectfully, you're missing the point. It's not about free RAM. Please reread the references I posted.

 

[gotluck]

No, it's not an anomaly, respectfully, you're missing the point. It's not about free RAM. Please reread the references I posted.

It is about RAM though, my Air could do more with 2 gigs, period.

All the VM items dont even apply to devices already running ART.

I know all about dalvik, thats why I bought stock android (ART support).

 

[sundragon]

It is about RAM though, my Air could do more with 2 gigs, period.

All the VM items dont even apply to devices already running ART.

Respectfully,

1. ART isn't running by default, it was introduced with 4.4 but by default turned off. You have to turn it on. Did you read the references in my original response?

2. Why does your Air require more RAM, please give me a case scenario.

 

[gotluck]

Respectfully,

1. ART isn't running by default, it was introduced with 4.4 but by default turned off. You have to turn it on. Did you read the references in my original response?

2. Why does your Air require more RAM, please give me a case scenario.

The references are all about why ART is being introduced, I know this, I read android news sites every day.. what am I missing?
I agree that it is a problem, but at least it is a software one - and some devices have a choice at a fix with 'beta' ART. I will never be able to install another ram chip when iOS 9 is chugging like a slug on my Air (or downgrade ).

1.filling out a form on a webpage
2.need to get information from the email app
3.form refreshes and i lose previously typed information

it doesn't happen every time, but there's no way to know when it will

 

[Menneisyys2]

Why does your Air require more RAM, please give me a case scenario.

Web browsing, for starters... see the numerous, related threads where people contain of tab reloads (and, in worse cases, crashes), opened on almost every hour here in the MR forum. (I've just linked to one opened some 5-6 hours ago.)

 

[sundragon]

The references are all about why ART is being introduced, I know this.. what am I missing?

1.filling out a form on a webpage
2.need to get information from the email app
3.form refreshes and i lose previously typed information

it doesn't happen every time, but there's no way to know when it will

If I understood your comment correctly:
"All the VM items dont even apply to devices already running ART."

There are no devices already running ART - I'll repeat - it's turned off by default. Please, restate the question so I understand it better

The browser issue has nothing to do with RAM - it's the way the information is stored in the browser - Chrome/IE have done the same thing for me. Essentially, it's the way the browser holds the data - usually it's deleted because for security.

 

[gotluck]

If I understood your comment correctly:
"All the VM items dont even apply to devices already running ART."

There are no devices already running ART - I'll repeat - it's turned off by default. Please, restate the question so I understand it better

The browser issue has nothing to do with RAM - it's the way the information is stored in the browser - Chrome/IE have done the same thing for me. Essentially, it's the way the browser holds the data - usually it's deleted because for security.

Give me a break... yea settings are rough man.. must mean it doesn't exist.

And just no, it does have to do with ram. It is not a security feature. Otherwise it would do it every time.

 

[sundragon]

Web browsing, for starters... see the numerous, related threads where people contain of tab reloads (and, in worse cases, crashes), opened on almost every hour here in the MR forum. (I've just linked to one opened some 5-6 hours ago.)

Don't see the link.

EDIT: Wait, you mean you linked to it in your previous statement. Let me check that.

EDIT 2: I responded:

"This is default behavior to save RAM - How many tabs do you have open?

FWIW - If you have multiple tabs open with form information it's not going to store that information for security reasons as well. You may as well go the Android route - though, I'm not sure things will be different re tabs refreshing (My Nexus 7s did that when I had multiple tabs open)"

----------

Give me a break... yea settings are rough man.. must mean it doesn't exist.

And just no, it does have to do with ram. It is not a security feature. Otherwise it would do it every time.

Wait, this doesn't do it every time, just with specific pages holding information.

1. How many open tabs?
2. How many open tabs with form data?
3. Does this happen on across different pages or just with a specific site's forms?

You can sell your Air and go with an Android device and let us know. FWIW, My Nexus 7s did the same thing with multiple open tabs.

 

[bumblebritches5]

If Apple goes on to switch from Intel to ARM on the Mac, I hope it doesn't happen for a very long time. I don't think I can handle another architecture change so soon.

so soon? I was in middle school when it happened lol.

 

[Menneisyys2]

If you have multiple tabs open with form information it's not going to store that information for security reasons as well.

I'm afraid you're mistaken - by default, Safari doesn't close / clean tabs where the user has started to enter info into forms, not even when the given page is https or has specific anti-cache metadata. I've just tested this with both non-secure and secure pages with partial form entry; also, with the latter, I checked no-cache pages too. No tab kills under iOS7.x. Neither did Safari clean the already-entered text, not even from password fields.

In Safari, all form unloads are "just" part of killing web pages to release memory (as happens with usual, non-form pages), regardless of the page's content.

 

[sundragon]

I'm afraid you're mistaken - by default, Safari doesn't close / clean tabs where the user has started to enter info into forms, not even when the given page is https or has specific anti-cache metadata. I've just tested this with both non-secure and secure pages with partial form entry; also, with the latter, I checked no-cache pages too. No tab kills under iOS7.x. Neither did Safari clean the already-entered text, not even from password fields.

In Safari, all form unloads are "just" part of killing web pages to release memory (as happens with usual, non-form pages), regardless of the page's content.

Nice tangent,

Got ya!

If I understood his question correctly: Safari wipes data in forms that are in the background. Meaning - I open a tab with a form, partially fill the form, move on open another tab/go to another app and come back to Safari and the tab with the form (and data) are wiped.

This is a RAM saving feature (automatic) not a direct result of not having enough RAM - It's the way Safari on iOS manages it's tabs. I would like to see a memory usage of the device when this happens.

FWIW, I've had my Nexus 7s (2012/13) do the same thing when I left tabs in the background. He should sell his Air and buy an Android device and see if he's got a better experience. I bought my Air and sold (2013)/gave away (2012) my Nexus 7s because I wasn't satisfied with my usage. Not trying to sound like a tool but the best way to tell a company their products suck is to stop buying/supporting them. Apple is no different from Google/Android mobile manufacturer.

Back to the original point - Dalvik and ART... Google wouldn't be changing the way this works (per all the above references) if it were working just fine.

 

[gotluck]

Nah I'm talking about a single tab scenario in the foreground. Moving between apps / multitasking. It's a dice roll whether or not the form will reload when I get back to safari. With 7.1 the dice roll is better.

Nobody here is defending dalvik... (but stock android devices running dalvik don't have ram issues, if that is what you are trying to claim, they have 'performance' issues)
Only heavily skinned devices (samsung, lg) run high on memory usage, but that is regardless of dalvik vs ART.

When I swap my device back to dalvik, it doesn't automatically use more RAM. It makes the processor work harder due to JIT.
ART actually causes apps to take up more storage space (minor amount) due to the precompilation. I wouldn't be surprised if ART actually uses a minor amount more RAM as well.

 

[Menneisyys2]

If I understood his question correctly: Safari wipes data in forms that are in the background. Meaning - I open a tab with a form, partially fill the form, move on open another tab/go to another app and come back to Safari and the tab with the form (and data) are wiped.

It isn't wiped. Just re-tested it on my 7.x rMini with both switching to another tab and completely backgrounding (minimizing) Safari. Not even the password fields were wiped, not even with https sites with strict caching / user credential saving metadata (e.g., banking sites).

 

[pedromcm.pm]

a7

Who would have thought (a few years ago) that Apple would have the talent and power to kick some ass at CPU/SoC designs?

I still believe that they should invest way more in producing/manufacturing such components.

 

[Muk4r0]

A7 & 1 gig of RAM ? not for the power user

> iOS 7, A7 and 1 gig of "RAM bottlenecks" on iPad Air & iPad Mini Retina ? ... Ask Safari among other apps ... it's a Crash festival!


64-bit A7 processor indeed is a "marketing gimmick", there is no use for 1 gig of ram in a 64 - bit architecture.


> iOS 6, A6X and 1 gig of ram where flawless on iPad 4 delivering way better and reliable performance on safari and other power user apps


It's a shame ! There wasn't an upgrade this last years fall, it was more like a down grade ! A no show up !


What could have been that wasn't ? 2 gig of damn ram, it might have done justice to an A7, but margins, those damn margins ...

Whats next ?


iOS 8 ( a rebranded iOS 7.X beta without RAM management issues), A7 (X) and 2 gig of ram ? Well now, finally ... Last year expectations met this time around ...

 

[Glideslope]

2016 is fine with me.

I just want one more MBA (the new rumored 12" retina MBA) to be still Intel based. I can put off worrying about my x86 software no longer working on an MBA at least for another generation.

Maybe the 2016 ARM processor will be able to emulate x86 code as fast as my current MBA can run it natively. I'd then be OK with switching to ARM unless Intel has something even better that ARM can't touch. I don't care about price.

One never knows.

 

[Nicky G]

That can't run any of my current x86 software???

No thanks!

Developers who are coding to current frameworks and APIs will likely just need to push out a recompile, one would think they'll make it very easy for devs to do this. Apple can handle the heavy work under the hood, and likely have been staying on top of this for ages, just like they were doing for x86 in secret well ahead of that transition.

 

[Liquorpuki]

iOS Apps don't take advantage because the average appstore price = $1 and 90% of apps are free anyway. It's like a dollar store vendor putting their $1 screwdriver in fancy premium packaging. Why bother?

Expensive hardware + disposable software

Apple's vision for the future

 

[TechGod]

I wonder which current apps come the closest to maximizing the performance of the A7.

Vjay maybe.