Apple's anti-competitive behavior with browsers: Why does Apple get a pass?

[Calidude]

I don't use Chrome myself, but today was a big deal for a lot of people and I'm surprised that Apple isn't being heavily criticized for their anti-competitive behavior when it comes to browsers.

It's ridiculous enough that other browsers can't be set as default, but to actually gimp them by not allowing them to harness the full Webkit abilities of Safari is just blatantly destructive to end users and developers alike.

I'm seeing people say "you need to jailbreak" yet this board is overwhelmingly anti-jailbreak . Is this something we should have to jailbreak? Not at all. Apple has a mobile OS that doesn't even act like an OS should, and people don't seem to have much of a problem with it.

Why is that?

 

[Telp]

I don't know where you've been. Apple is criticized greatly for just about everything they do. It's just nothing new anymore. It's Apple's OS and they can lock it down as they want.

 

[batting1000]

Because iOS just works the way it is.

 

[realeric]

It should be fine since Google became big brother.

 

[nuckinfutz]

I'm ok with it because Apple's koolaid tastes better.

 

[gloss]

It's pretty shameful.

 

[MattInOz]

Care to provide a Link to your claim that Chrome isn't allowed to use full webkit?

 

[gloss]

Care to provide a Link to your claim that Chrome isn't allowed to use full webkit?

No non-Safari browser is allowed to use the much-faster Nitro JavaScript engine, ostensibly for security reasons. This includes Chrome.

 

[rorschach]

I don't use Chrome myself, but today was a big deal for a lot of people and I'm surprised that Apple isn't being heavily criticized for their anti-competitive behavior when it comes to browsers.

It's ridiculous enough that other browsers can't be set as default, but to actually gimp them by not allowing them to harness the full Webkit abilities of Safari is just blatantly destructive to end users and developers alike.

I'm seeing people say "you need to jailbreak" yet this board is overwhelmingly anti-jailbreak . Is this something we should have to jailbreak? Not at all. Apple has a mobile OS that doesn't even act like an OS should, and people don't seem to have much of a problem with it.

Why is that?

I don't know what you're going on about. Apple has plenty of competition. They aren't being "heavily criticized" because most people just don't care, whether you like it or not.

 

[Daveoc64]

Care to provide a Link to your claim that Chrome isn't allowed to use full webkit?

It's common knowledge.

Efficient JavaScript engines (such as Nitro) require low level and fast access to device resources like memory. The downside of allowing that access is that it's easier to exploit weaknesses in the device's operating system.

Apple takes the view that third party developers can't be trusted with such a level of access, so it only lets their apps (using a UIWebView) access an older version of the JavaScript engine that doesn't use the more efficient low-level JIT compiling.

That means that Apps like Facebook and Google Chrome (as well as every other browser - excluding Opera Mini*) are not able to run as fast as Safari can.

It's not technically related to WebKit.

Until iOS 5.0, the same restriction applied to web apps installed to the home screen, although there's far less of a risk there.

*Opera Mini gets around Apple's restrictions by processing and rendering web page content (including JavaScript) on their server, before sending the results to the user's device. That approach has horrific JavaScript performance though.

What are the most popular web browsers (excluding Safari)? IE, Chrome and Firefox.

Until now, we didn't have any of them on the App Store.

I think that the profile that Chrome has should mean that it'll be more popular than other third party iOS browsers have ever been and that we'll see people taking note of some of the limitations in iOS.

Mozilla's supposed to be releasing an iPad browser soon as well.

 

[Renzatic]

I don't know where you've been. Apple is criticized greatly for just about everything they do. It's just nothing new anymore. It's Apple's OS and they can lock it down as they want.

You should write a strongly worded letter to the EU for forcing MS to provide a browser ballot to let the end users pick which they want instead of making IE the default.

I mean hell, it's their OS, right?

 

[Lvivske]

I don't think its fair, especially with how Windows/IE has been raked over the coals for being 'anti-competitive' for much less.

It's not like people want the phone unlocked, just let us pick our own default browser. Don't stymie the competition, be competitive and don't give people a reason to want to switch.

 

[aristobrat]

I don't think its fair, especially with how Windows/IE has been raked over the coals for being 'anti-competitive' for much less.

Wasn't the whole Windows/IE thing over the fact that Microsoft had dominance over the personal computer OS market?

Apple doesn't have dominance over the smartphone OS market. Depending on which analyst report you read on a specific day, they may be slightly ahead of Android, but that's not dominance.

 

[MattInOz]

It's common knowledge.

Efficient JavaScript engines (such as Nitro) require low level and fast access to device resources like memory. The downside of allowing that access is that it's easier to exploit weaknesses in the device's operating system.

Thanks Daveoc64 & gloss,
then it would be expected at some point in the future Apple will find a way to overcome the security issue and could then in OS update switch all Webkit view to nitro?

So if Apps and Webapps drive hardware sales then it's in Apples interest, as much as anyone's, to overcome this weakness.

 

[killmoms]

You should write a strongly worded letter to the EU for forcing MS to provide a browser ballot to let the end users pick which they want instead of making IE the default.

I mean hell, it's their OS, right?

Microsoft's bundling of IE was disallowed because it was an anti-competitive use of their operating system monopoly. Apple does not have a monopoly in the phone market (nor do they have one in the smartphone sub-market), therefore they can still do whatever the hell they want with their platform.

 

[Kurwenal]

people don't seem to have much of a problem with it.

Why is that?

It took the DOJ three years to sue MS over IE. Chrome for iOS has been out for 6 hours.

 

[Daveoc64]

Thanks Daveoc64 & gloss,
then it would be expected at some point in the future Apple will find a way to overcome the security issue and could then in OS update switch all Webkit view to nitro?

Theoretically the problem will always be there. It simply comes down to whether Apple cares more about trying to stop people jailbreaking their device, or improving the user experience.

Given that Apple has not done anything to help Facebook (one of the most popular Apps of all time) in this situation, I don't really hold much hope.

It looks like Facebook has given up and is going for a native iOS App.

 

[Sylon]

Theoretically the problem will always be there. It simply comes down to whether Apple cares more about trying to stop people jailbreaking their device, or improving the user experience.

Given that Apple has not done anything to help Facebook (one of the most popular Apps of all time) in this situation, I don't really hold much hope.

It looks like Facebook has given up and is going for a native iOS App.

It boggles my mind how much Apple is against Jailbreaking. I see it as free beta testers for Apple. Figuring out which tweaks and apps work, where the flaws are and how popular they are, then Apple can steal it back, perfect it for the system and release it in a new iOS. VERY similar to iOS 6. They could view the JB developers as extended employees not on the payroll. Not to mention JB'ing boosts innovation.






As for the browser situation, the first thing my mind goes to when I read about Apple not allowing users to change the default browser is the whole MS/EU fiasco. Which, I never understood the MS/EU issue either. MS always allowed you to change your default browser, so what was the big deal? Apple doesn't allow it at all on their mobile devices, and yet they get away with it. I bet no one bothers with it on the mobile level because Apple allows it on their computers. I think the mobile restriction gets hidden because no one cares enough to bother with it.

 

[blackhand1001]

It boggles my mind how much Apple is against Jailbreaking. I see it as free beta testers for Apple. Figuring out which tweaks and apps work, where the flaws are and how popular they are, then Apple can steal it back, perfect it for the system and release it in a new iOS. VERY similar to iOS 6. They could view the JB developers as extended employees not on the payroll. Not to mention JB'ing boosts innovation.






As for the browser situation, the first thing my mind goes to when I read about Apple not allowing users to change the default browser is the whole MS/EU fiasco. Which, I never understood the MS/EU issue either. MS always allowed you to change your default browser, so what was the big deal? Apple doesn't allow it at all on their mobile devices, and yet they get away with it. I bet no one bothers with it on the mobile level because Apple allows it on their computers. I think the mobile restriction gets hidden because no one cares enough to bother with it.

I agree apple should take a page out of googles playbook and embrace the rooting/jailbreak community. Many features of rooting have been implemented into stock android. In fact the most popular rom developer for android, cyanogen got hired by samsung.

 

[chiefpavvy]

Theoretically the problem will always be there. It simply comes down to whether Apple cares more about trying to stop people jailbreaking their device, or improving the user experience.

Given that Apple has not done anything to help Facebook (one of the most popular Apps of all time) in this situation, I don't really hold much hope.

It looks like Facebook has given up and is going for a native iOS App.

Which they (Facebook) should have done to begin with. A native iOS App will always provide a better experience. Nothing against HTML5 but...

 

[JS82712]

I don't use Chrome myself, but today was a big deal for a lot of people and I'm surprised that Apple isn't being heavily criticized for their anti-competitive behavior when it comes to browsers.

It's ridiculous enough that other browsers can't be set as default, but to actually gimp them by not allowing them to harness the full Webkit abilities of Safari is just blatantly destructive to end users and developers alike.

I'm seeing people say "you need to jailbreak" yet this board is overwhelmingly anti-jailbreak . Is this something we should have to jailbreak? Not at all. Apple has a mobile OS that doesn't even act like an OS should, and people don't seem to have much of a problem with it.

Why is that?

Judging from your past few posts, it's obvious that you are a fandroid who has nothing better to do but troll on this forum. Why don't you go worry about that not-so-revolutionary jellybean of yours instead?

and no, Apple doesn't have 90% of the mobile market share like microsoft did with the PC.

 

[212rikanmofo]

Judging from your past few posts, it's obvious that you are a fandroid who has nothing better to do but troll on this forum. Why don't you go worry about that not-so-revolutionary jellybean of yours instead?

and no, Apple doesn't have 90% of the mobile market share like microsoft did with the PC.

That's what I've been saying. This guy is annoying with all his posts. Stop whining already. Can't you be any more obvious?

 

[ethana]

The reason it's legal is because Apple doesn't fully control the smartphone market. If you don't like how Apple does it, go use Windows Phones, Blackberry, Android, etc etc etc.

The reason Microsoft was sued about it back in the 90's for this same issue was because they had a monopoly in the marketplace.

Ethan

 

[Calidude]

Judging from your past few posts, it's obvious that you are a fandroid who has nothing better to do but troll on this forum. Why don't you go worry about that not-so-revolutionary jellybean of yours instead?

and no, Apple doesn't have 90% of the mobile market share like microsoft did with the PC.

1) If Microsoft had created the first touchscreen capacitive multitouch phone, had a sizable chunk of the market and did what Apple is doing while Apple took more of an OSX-approach to browsers, you'd be pointing how how ridiculous Microsoft's policy was. Don't even try to deny it.

2) Monopoly doesn't matter. It's a matter of user experience and developer freedom.

 

[212rikanmofo]

1) If Microsoft had created the first touchscreen capacitive multitouch phone, had a sizable chunk of the market and did what Apple is doing while Apple took more of an OSX-approach to browsers, you'd be pointing how how ridiculous Microsoft's policy was. Don't even try to deny it.

2) Monopoly doesn't matter. It's a matter of user experience and developer freedom.

Seriously? When do you ever stop?