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Precisely. That's when Apple got their cut. If that's not enough to cover the costs of free apps then maybe Apple needs to increase that fee. Because if the cost of hosting the Netflix, Kindle, etc apps in the store has gotten too high, then it's also getting too high for the hundreds of other very popular free apps that don't make use of in app purchasing (Twitter, Facebook, games, etc) and those apps also need to pay their share. Apple is just trying to offload it to their competitors to drive them out of the market.

So I assume you think that the 30% apple gets every time an App sells in the store is unreasonable also? Apple invented the store, they do the advertising and marketing for your app and they don't deserve a cut?
My guess is you don't run a company?
The question here isnt does Apple deserve a % of the sale, because they do. I think the % they want is to high. Google just came out with their own subscription model and they are taking 10% which is more reasonable.
 
Except it's wrong. They wont be allowed to take new subscribers without offering subscriptions in app. Then they are forced to price match (and take a 30% hit) and not allowed to direct people to their website from the app.

He's not wrong, he covered that scenario. Netflix and The Times don't get their subscribers via an app. They advertise outside of the Apple Ecosystem, and they product exists outside of the Apple ecosystem. For companies like these, the iPhone app is a bonus. Few people if any are going to stumble across a netflix app, think "Gee, never heard of that before", and subscribe based solely on the app.

It is possible that a news paper may see more people stumbling across an app that wouldn't consider a physical paper subscription, but this is good for the content provider. Why? Because I'm not going to surf over to some news paper and hand over my CC and other personal info, I'd rather give that data to Apple (who already has it), and do so by entering my iTunes password. Voilla! Instant subscription, and I know I can cancel it easier. This means I'm actually inclined to subscribe to a news paper, where I would otherwise not have.

Companies like Spotify will need to do some adjusting, but then from what I've read, their entire business model needs to be revamped anyway :rolleyes:
 
They are apparently bringing this to Mac OS X as well. All purchases that are conducted through Safari, i.e. brought to shop owners by Apple, will have to go through iTunes and will be subject to 30% Apple tithe. Simple. If you purchase over the phone, shop owners will get 100%. This is fair.
 
While I am concerned about the implications this decision might have on some of my favorite apps, I do feel that what Apple is doing is fair. It would be like Walmart allowing vendors to come in their store and sell stuff and not pay a penny to Walmart. Apple is the retail store. A 30% chip off the top is about normal for this kind of thing. Do you think Borders just sells all their stuff without marking it up to cover their costs?

In the end, this just means an increase in price to the consumer cause the businesses aren't going to take the hit off their bottom line. Whether consumers will actually pay the extra or get their content elsewhere, will probably depend on the service.

The only real sticking block with this that I can see is that Apple is trying to dictate what price the businesses charge for out of app purchases. This really is none of Apple's business and I don't see how it could be enforced if this was challenged legally. Apple has a right to take profit off of in-app purchases, but if I buy a book on the Amazon site, they should not be involved in that transaction in any way.
 
So I assume you think that the 30% apple gets every time an App sells in the store is unreasonable also? Apple invented the store, they do the advertising and marketing for your app and they don't deserve a cut?
My guess is you don't run a company?
The question here isnt does Apple deserve a % of the sale, because they do. I think the % they want is to high. Google just came out with their own subscription model and they are taking 10% which is more reasonable.

Then why doesn't Apple simply charge a fee for hosting a "Commercial App," that being any app that sells something. They could charge the developers for hosting and distributing it. Each download would charge the provider a set fee. Some providers may try to charge for the app to recoup the cost. Others may lose money to distribute the app in hopes of gaining it back in subscriptions. This would be better than an ongoing percentage.
 
This is the worst "big brother", anti-competitive move since Mubarek took power in Egypt.

Lawyers everywhere are rejoicing.
 
They are apparently bringing this to Mac OS X as well. All purchases that are conducted through Safari, i.e. brought to shop owners by Apple, will have to go through iTunes and will be subject to 30% Apple tithe. Simple. If you purchase over the phone, shop owners will get 100%. This is fair.

Its not fair if Apple imposes a limitation that software can only be downloaded or purchased through the App Store. I think too many unknowns and Apples always hidden agenda are worrying people.
 
A couple of things to consider.
1. Amazon currently takes a 30% cut for their newspaper and magazine subscriptions and that feature is a kindle device only feature.
2. Publishers never get anywhere near 100% of even discounted pricing of paper based subscriptions.

Paper newspaper and magazine subscriptions are advertised through various methods including third party telemarketers and junk mail distribution. Then you have to add in the cost of mailed delivery of those subscriptions.

Apple is offering to take care of the billing, re-billing and advertising of subscriptions for a 30% cut. That cut is much smaller than what these publishers have to pay in upfront costs for traditional paper based subscriptions.
 
What's the point

[...] the part that Apple will or should change is the part about having to offer the in-App price at the same or lower price. This is the part that publishers don't like and the anti-trust part as it's controlling prices. If Apple changed that part, all would be good and let the buyer make up their mind as to where to buy.

Disagree - What's the point if the publisher can just undercut the price? Consumers have a choice now (in-app or outside).
 
So I assume you think that the 30% apple gets every time an App sells in the store is unreasonable also? Apple invented the store, they do the advertising and marketing for your app and they don't deserve a cut?
My guess is you don't run a company?
The question here isnt does Apple deserve a % of the sale, because they do. I think the % they want is to high. Google just came out with their own subscription model and they are taking 10% which is more reasonable.

But WHAT advertising???? Exactly what advertising does Apple do for ANYONE'S App????? The ONLY ads I see are on the telly and ALL they are advertising is the iPod, iPhone, iPad, NOT the app store specifically or app. They just have a game playing on an iPod with a footnote of what the game is but the entire point of the ad is to sell the iToy and NOT the game.
The game is just getting free exposure and Apple are just using a well knowing popular game to help sell THEIR product.

Am I not seeing this right? Does this ruling not affect ALL in app purchases made REGARDLESS of the type of app? Like a game selling upgrades through the game itself? I read it as it does which means they have to increase those costs by that 43% or swallow the charge.
If I am right then there is a hell of a lot more at stake here then just Amazon and Netflix. EA do sell upgrades in game.... Some games are free with the option to pay to buy upgrades from within the game, so they will have to increase the charges just to make any money.
 
I'll start off by saying I love apple products, much like the majority of people on here but....

Apple is like the nerd in school that everyone bullied and now it's trying to get revenge since it's the cool kid in town. They bullied the music industry into iTunes and now the industry is almost gone, they're going to do the same thing with movies, tv, and publishing. I hope everyone (including apps that wouldn't even be affected by this) all opt out of Apple's deal and put them back in their place.
 
Those affected the most by this are Apple's direct competitors who have been free-loading off the Apple ecosystem -- especially those that received the majority of purchases through their iOS apps.

Personally, I would like to see the number of subscribers that Rhapsody added after they released an iOS app. Remember that it was iOS that made Pandora so popular (by admission of their own CEO at an Apple event).

Oh please! Apple was quite happy with this so-called free-loading (you obviously have absolutely no idea how much it costs to invest in building and supporting apps on the iOS platform) because it was driving sales of the hardware.

If you don't think any Rhapsody/Spotify/Napster/Sonos customers purchased an iOS device because their favorite services were available on the go via iPhone/iPod Touch then you are insane. This was a win-win relationship for everyone. Apple sold more iOS hardware, companies like Spotify added value to paid subscriptions.

The ecosystem is crucial to the long-term success of the platform. Apple did a really bad job of managing key partner relationships in the past with the computer business, and they are on course to make many of the same mistakes all over again.

Of course the hardcore Apple cult is going nowhere no matter what the company does. :D But Apple is taking a lot of risks. They might be a hip, trendy brand today. But fashion trends can and do change over time. And if you continue acting in the way Apple is so openly and publicly with important partners, they could really sour the image of the brand.
 
I'll start off by saying I love apple products, much like the majority of people on here but....

Apple is like the nerd in school that everyone bullied and now it's trying to get revenge since it's the cool kid in town. They bullied the music industry into iTunes and now the industry is almost gone, they're going to do the same thing with movies, tv, and publishing. I hope everyone (including apps that wouldn't even be affected by this) all opt out of Apple's deal and put them back in their place.

I agree. I think Apple is also being opportunistic. Jobs is smart he knows Apple will like everything fall out of style. He is entrenching Apple in multiple media arenas to ensure its a player for a long time.
 
dear apple:

please kindly make hardware and stay out of the content industry. you suck at it, and aren't welcome.

thats funny...it was 100% apple who ignited the digital music sales revolution, and pressured the record labels into dropping DRM.

i think theyre pretty good at it.
 
I read an article last night that stated that Amazon would lose money on every book they sold through their iOS apps. No way they're going to accept that. The article guessed that Amazon would rather remove the ability to buy books through the app altogether and simply make it a reader.

This may be addressed in a later post, but I'm still on page 2. If this has been mentioned already, then I apologize.

It's my understanding that Apple won't accept this. If your app accesses some sort of subscription based service, then they have to offer it through iTunes. So, even if Amazon makes Kindle a reader only, if they are still selling Kindle books on Amazon.com that the Kindle app can access, then by Apple's rule Amazon has to offer sales through iTunes. Am I misunderstanding this?
 
Factually incorrect. Apple's actual edict was that all subscription content that runs through iOS apps has to be available through the iTunes subscription store. For example: the netflix app will not be allowed unless you can subscribe to Netflix in-app.

Very very very different from what you misunderstood the new rules to be.

I understand you both to be saying the same thing. And unlike your negative spin as far as the consumer is concerned, I actually agree with the guy you replied to and how this is positive for the consumer and for Apple. Content providers not so much, but I prefer Apple looking out for me, the consumer, rather than looking out for content providers, consumers be damned.

As John Gruber said, "You’ll seldom go wrong betting on Apple doing something that’s good for Apple and good for its users — no matter what the ramifications for everyone else."
 
Apple is not dictating price at all

While I am concerned about the implications this decision might have on some of my favorite apps, I do feel that what Apple is doing is fair. It would be like Walmart allowing vendors to come in their store and sell stuff and not pay a penny to Walmart. Apple is the retail store. [...]

Perfect description above

The only real sticking block with this that I can see is that Apple is trying to dictate what price the businesses charge for out of app purchases. This really is none of Apple's business and I don't see how it could be enforced if this was challenged legally. Apple has a right to take profit off of in-app purchases, but if I buy a book on the Amazon site, they should not be involved in that transaction in any way.

Wrong - APPLE NEVER DICTATED PRICES.

APPLE SAID TO THEM YOU CANNOT UNDERCUT IN-APP PRICING.

** SELLER DECIDES THE RETAIL PRICE **
 
I'll start off by saying I love apple products, much like the majority of people on here but....

Apple is like the nerd in school that everyone bullied and now it's trying to get revenge since it's the cool kid in town. They bullied the music industry into iTunes and now the industry is almost gone, they're going to do the same thing with movies, tv, and publishing. I hope everyone (including apps that wouldn't even be affected by this) all opt out of Apple's deal and put them back in their place.

I think it could be argued that the music industry is in decline because it puts out tired, repetitive, and thoughtless products...

However, I am no fan of Apple trying to dictate terms here and will wait and see what happens before plunking down money for a couple of iPad2.
 
It's just laughable to compare the App store to something more physical like growing food it really is. An entirely different industry with entirely different and massive over heads.

uh dude? obviously youve never worked in a data center, so you fail. there is TONS of overhead -- just different. land, buildings, utilities, servers, cooling, managers, janitors, administrators, programmers, customer service, assistants, HR, salaries, benefits, etc etc...

the internet isnt made from unicorn farts, dude. if it was easy and cheap as you think, then everybody would have a record-selling App Store, wouldnt they?

you gotta pay rent.
 
Considering the challenges Apple has been increasingly having in the past couple of years securing content, it seems rather insane of them to take this approach. Magazines and newspapers are fueled by advertising, not subscription or news stand sales. Circulation is what determines the price of an ad in a magazine. Digital versions make it a little easier to ignore ads, especially a full page ad that's nagging at the corner of your eye when you read something on the opposite page. I'm sure advertisers are tugging at the publishers concerning fees for ads.

If Apple really wants content, they can't have this one size fits all fee. Looking at Android, in some cases a purchase can be billed to your phone bill, or via credit card through Google. If Google wants to stab Apple good, offer reasonable terms. Something like buying Farmville cash in the app I can see the 30% cut on. Zynga is spending a lot of money with cards in stores and third party sales chanels, but that's a pure profit center for them. And it's a purchase people are spending $5-$50 on in a clip multiple times a year, unlike a one time $20 magazine subscription that the publisher isn't really making money on. A magazine subscription or individual sale at the news stand doesn't even cover the expensive of producing that 1 issue. Even with digital, there's new costs involved that don't totally make up for not printing. (LIke a dedicated team coding the magazine). Magazines and papers are ad supported businesses. If Apple wants to see content for their devices they can't demand 30% on every thing sold. They need a tiered approach. No more than 10%. Something slightly higher than a credit card fee.

How many of these publishers aren't going to be pushing subscriptions on other platforms? It would be one thing if they had the savings of using Apple's data centers exclusively. That savings might justify a 30% cut, but the fact is they will always have a need for their own data centers to support other platforms, and their's costs with customer service that's not going through Apple.

Apple could attract a lot more content if they had a tiered fee depending on content/product type. Wouldn't it be better to say "Read over 100 magazines on your iPad" than to say, "Hey, we have 5 magazines you can read." Because that's what will happen.

Or, as their terms read, couldn't say Men's Health make a digital magazine and not sell the subscription through iTunes? Then push the content through the app when it's opened? It seems to comply with the App store terms by not offering an in ap purchase, and that's what these companies should do. So once a year you have to go to the publishers site to renew, big deal. Then I guess Apple would change their terms to not allow pushed content. They're getting rather bratty like that.

Look at the failure of iAds. The Apple greed has kept advertisers away. They can't sell enough ads to meet demands of developers who signed up for the program. Those developers are eventually going to revert back to another company because they're not going to make any money.

Apple sure "think's different" still, just not sure it's for the better. They're kind of behaving Ballmer-soft like. Content is so important in the new market place. Look at a Roku box Vs. the Apple TV. One has tons of content and one has hardly any content. Apple would probably get a lot more if they gave up some things. "Okay, so we'll take a 20% cut on tv show rentals if you give us more film rental options or book titles." If one store stocks 50 items and a second store offers those same 50 plus 100 more at the same price, wouldn't you want to shop the other store? In time that's where Apple will put themselves as other platforms catch up. These companies aren't going to lose money just to have their content in iTunes. Google seriously are you listening? Snatch and grab and start signing exclusive deals.

edit: Yes! Google you are listening.... http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-20032217-1.html
And in multiple countries you are listening. Should put some heat on this issue.
 
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I understand you both to be saying the same thing. And unlike your negative spin as far as the consumer is concerned, I actually agree with the guy you replied to and how this is positive for the consumer and for Apple. Content providers not so much, but I prefer Apple looking out for me, the consumer, rather than looking out for content providers, consumers be damned.

As John Gruber said, "You’ll seldom go wrong betting on Apple doing something that’s good for Apple and good for its users — no matter what the ramifications for everyone else."

Gruber is entertaining but he became so blindly in love with Apple after Steve Jobs referenced him during the iPhone 4 antenna issues, that it's difficult to take his analysis seriously anymore.

SJ has already pissed off the music labels enough that they have reportedly made it very difficult (if not impossible) for Apple to come to terms over a music subscription service of their own. I'm not sure making enemies of big content is in the best interests of the platform long-term. It's certainly a dangerous game Apple is playing here.
 

Thank You. That basically means that games are not going to be affected then? And all these rules ONLY apply to a subscription service. SO I can breath a sigh of relief but feel for the people that do subscribe.
Also I would add that Apple is synonymous with all things music so to force your competitors to increase costs, hmmm, very dodgy ground when you have iTunes.... may end up in court over it?

As for Amazon, couldn't care as the Amazon ecosystem IMO completely trounces the iBook store on both content, features, price, value. And with it's app on ALL platforms and the Kindle selling like hot cakes then I think the will just swallow the costs.
But again it's an interesting twist as I personally do not consider an Amazon account a subscription to the books service, you don't have to buy anything for months and months to have an account with them.
So again Apple IMO are on dodgy legal grounds here.... and again they have iBooks a direct competitor....
 
If they don't like then they can take their business else where. No one is forcing them to do business in the App Store. Apple has every right do run their business how they want to as would I if I owned a business. There are too many folks out there that want something for nothing.

I don't think businesses are expecting Apple to take nothing, but I do think they were surprised at the 30% take. As a previous member said, I can accept 30% with apps because they are hosting the server space, bandwidth, etc., but 30% of a subscription service that is hosted by the developer is a little absurd. 5%-10%, sure, but definitely not 30%.

It's like PayPal taking 30% of all your transactions. If it gets too high, people will stop using the service and your business is done.
 
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