Apple's Contracts With European iPhone Carriers Examined for Potential Antitrust Issues

marksman said:
Of course Europe is mad they lost the cellphone market to apple and Samsung so perhaps they are trying to create an environment where inferior European phonemakers can compete.
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In all honesty as much bashing of American good and companies that Euros do I only ever recall buying 3 things that came from Europe. A Miele washer and dryer, a car, and a Suunto watch. Europe produces high quality goods, but they seem to have a lot less impact on our economy and daily lives than we have on them. Is that why all the bitterness?
 
Tanax said:
I'm always amazed how much the Americans have to say about EU and EU's regulations. EU and US are run differently. Both ways have advantages and disadvantages. Since I've grown up accustomed to the EU way, I always find it a better way. US is a mess, IMO. But like I said, they are run differently.

Apple(and all other companies) are forced to play by the rules of the region they want to sell their products in. I don't think it's unfair or weird at all. Then if Apple decides it's not worth the hassle to be able to sell products in EU then that's our loss.. but I still think all rules and laws of whatever region they're selling in should apply to every company.
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The antitrust laws in the US and the EU are actually quite similar, but the EU is more consistent in applying them. All of which is a bit beside the point, since the vast majority of people in both places don't understand antitrust laws, and many will automatically assume that any antitrust investigation of any company they like is abusive.
 
I can't speak for the rest of the EU, but try walking into a phone shop to buy an iPhone in the UK. Who ever is serving you will typically promote every phone under the sun over the iPhone, and try their hardest to push you towards some sort of android device.

I work for a telecoms company, and the mobioe guys will actively try and tell you that the iPhone isn't a business device, or make some crap up to push an Android or a Bkackberry

I'm not seeing where the anti competitive behaviour is on the high street at least. And for every iPhone promotion, you'll see exactly the same deal for a competing brand. And haven't we seen just how big the margins are on Samsung's S4 device, and all for a piece of plastic.
 
IJ Reilly said:
More or less. The "CPU tax" scheme was imposed on the hardware makers. They were charged for a copy of MS-DOS (it goes back that far) for every CPU they sold, whether it was loaded with a copy of a Microsoft operating system or someone else's. However this scheme was not the basis of US v. Microsoft. They had settled with the government to stop that practice long before. Although they complied with the letter of the Consent Decree prohibiting the CPU tax, they detoured around its intent. They found news ways to strong-arm their partners into doing their bidding, and those methods were partially in play in US v. Microsoft.
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Thanks for the specifics! :)
 
IJ Reilly said:
True, but only as far as it goes. Antitrust laws are only partially concerned with monopolies, if only because true monopolies rarely exist. The law's principle concerns are with the formation of trusts (cartels), and with anticompetitive exercises of market power. This preliminary investigation seems to be about the latter. If the description of Apple's wholesale policy is accurate, they could very well be required to change it.
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But how would they prove market power when Apple doesn't even hold a majority of the phone market, or even the smartphone market?

They have the lion's share of the market's profitability, yes, but since when is that a measurable factor in determining anti-competitive measures?



irmongoose
 
So much for "Apple is reporting actual sales, everyone else only reports shipments". No wonder when they're shoving X number of iPhones down the carriers throats, consider them sold and don't care if the carrier manages to actually sell all of them to customers or have to give them away for free during future generations. Seems like the real difference between Apple's "sales" and everyone elses "shipments" is that "the others" can be forced to take back surplus while Apple says "sorry, you bought it" and leaves the carrier stuck with the surplus.



Tayobi said:
So basically, Apple has been telling the EU carriers "We offer to sell you X numbers of iPhone 5, take it or leave it."

Any business can make similar offer to another business and the "offeree" can always reject or make a counter offer. Isn't that what free economy is all about?
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Thankfully, the free market is regulated because otherwise it would become pure anarchy and collapse. Regulations are used to keep competition at a healthy level that primarily benefits the consumer. If one player in the free market grows too powerful the regulations make sure it wont be able to hold the rest of the market for ransom at gunpoint.
In this case the "offeree" is at a severe disadvantage beacuse the rejection of the offer would be financial suicide.
To put it simple:
Don Apple: "I'm going to give you an offer you can't refuse"

The EU, except for a few of its members, has been in deep **** for years.
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Unlike the US, you mean?
 
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[MOD NOTE]
This is a news thread not the PRSI forum and as such lets keep the discussion on Apple's EU contracts and not anything related to political issues in EU or the US.
 
Like no one saw this one coming? This can be VERY serious for Apple, if theirs ONE thing the EU hates above all else it's monopoly's and for good reason. They have even recently again fined Microsoft for a 'technical' issue that prevented other browsers then Internet Explorer being used, and that was linked to the absolute ripping them to pieces the EU did before due to the monopoly MS did with IE, in fact in this most recent fine MS just paid it, didn't say a word, just paid it as they know what will happen if they don't.
All Apple fans best pray Apple aren't officially investigated and found guilty as the EU will punish them very hard, they are in no way scared of some giant American corporation as already proven.
 
irmongoose said:
But how would they prove market power when Apple doesn't even hold a majority of the phone market, or even the smartphone market?

They have the lion's share of the market's profitability, yes, but since when is that a measurable factor in determining anti-competitive measures?
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There's no fixed market share test for market power. It's about what a company can accomplish in their market to control prices for goods that they would be unable to do in a more competitive market. In this case I think the suspicion is raised when it appears that Apple may be extracting terms from their customers that other suppliers cannot. This isn't anticompetitive by definition, but it does walk like a duck, so it isn't surprising that it has attracted the attention of the regulators.
 
Jamo12 said:
I am glad I don't live there.
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And I am glad you don't live here :)

No one is above the law, surely not Apple.

Seems like MacRumors has the highest concentration of EU regulations experts from the USA , I'm impressed :D

Rocco83 said:
America can be proud of the fact that we had Steve Jobs. Sure Ivey may have come from Britain and made some stuff too, but if you look hard enough through old patents I'm sure there is one in there of Jobs patenting Ivey. Thereby making him an American product.
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Ridiculous, last time I checked, Ive is still a British citizen and definitely not an American. I don't see how living and working for an American corporation makes an individual American. In that case, millions of illegal immigrants in the US are American :)
 
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vmistery said:
I am more surprised they haven't looked at the default browser options on ios or how closed the eco system is considering how they treat Microsoft.

Does it actually hurt the Consumer setting sales targets? Doesn't sound like it to me.
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Me too. I think eventually we will turn our phones on for the first time and get asked what browser we want from a huge selection. Could be interesting.
 
Mac21ND said:
Walmart would never survive in Europe.

Edit: I stand corrected, I guess they're in the UK. I was thinking in regards to their overbearing demands placed on suppliers, etc;.
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Oh trust me, Tesco are JUST as bad and they are a UK based firm.
 
vmistery said:
I am more surprised they haven't looked at the default browser options on ios or how closed the eco system is considering how they treat Microsoft.

Does it actually hurt the Consumer setting sales targets? Doesn't sound like it to me.
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My guess is that since iphones still represent only a small percentage of the overall phone market, it doesn't count as a monopoly. At least, it is nowhere as bad as the stranglehold Windows had.

Or maybe they simply don't view the impact of smartphones in the same light as desktop OS?
 
ArtOfWarfare said:
Who is it that's complaining?

If it's other handset manufacturers, why don't they just go the Apple route and set up their own stores? There's no better place to sell your products than in your own stores (assuming you don't suck at designing stores. Which I guess you probably do. It's interesting how much most people suck at most things.)
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Like logic or being objective? :rolleyes:
 
samcraig said:
OMG - what if MR is really a covert Google site looking to put down "the man" ?
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Judging from the fact that there is no mac in macrumors anymore is reason enough to ditch this site. Even Worse is the constant unmoderated bullying of Apple fans by Fandroids... Covert or not, this place is no longer a good place for anything Apple enthusiast related.
 
nepalisherpa said:
Per Walmart's website, that number is not counting ASDA but you are from there so you may know better than me. :)

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Per this website: http://corporate.walmart.com/our-story/locations/united-kingdom (scroll down towards the bottom) It has separate numbers for total and ASDA.
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Your pretty sad at maths aren't you, let alone reading.

Supercenter32
Asda Superstore314
Asda Living32
Asda Petrol Filling Station1
Asda Supermarket186

Guess what all that adds up too? 565 it's magical!
 
Abazigal said:
My guess is that since iphones still represent only a small percentage of the overall phone market, it doesn't count as a monopoly. At least, it is nowhere as bad as the stranglehold Windows had.

Or maybe they simply don't view the impact of smartphones in the same light as desktop OS?
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Because it isn't about monopoly, it's about abuse of market power. This is the single, most important thing people need to understand if they are to discuss antitrust law enforcement intelligently. Most people do not understand this concept, which is why these discussions always turn into exchanges of rants of an ideological or cultural nature.
 
IJ Reilly said:
Because it isn't about monopoly, it's about abuse of market power. This is the single, most important thing people need to understand if they are to discuss antitrust law enforcement intelligently. Most people do not understand this concept, which is why these discussions always turn into exchanges of rants of an ideological or cultural nature.
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Exactly, people forgets than you don't have to be a monopoly to be accused of anti competitive practices
 
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