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Apple's Craig Federighi Confirms APFS Coming to Fusion Drives in a Future macOS High Sierra Update

solipsism said:
Where did Apple state that APFS was going to arrive with Sierra?
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Of course. It also works with HDDs, too.
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You link to these screenshots that Apple marketed? I see macOS 10.6 coming out in 2009 and iCloud arriving in 2011 with macOS 10.6 never even making it to 10.6.9. It seems unlikely that Apple would promise a brand new feature on an OS that was being obsolesced.
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Assuming Apple would ditch low-cost, high-capacity drives when there's no reasonable solution from SSDs is not inline with Apple's MO.
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Apple had developed 10.6.9 for the migration of MobileMe to iCloud.
The cloud login system preference mentioned the next release but it was nixed by Apple in order to push Lion which was a disaster.

https://www.macrumors.com/2011/08/29/mac-os-x-snow-leopard-10-6-9-to-bring-icloud-support/
 
69Mustang said:
You kinda missed the point I was making. It's about the "coming in a future update" culture. I'm not sure when it became the norm to release unfinished product, but it's definitely the norm now.
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No, I did get that point. Apple's mistake here is that they were overconfident in promising the feature, and it's fine to criticize them for that.

However, they gracefully backtracked rather than shipping it in an unreliable state. They're not charging you for something they promised and didn't deliver, and they're also not leaving your machine in an unreliable state. They're simply delaying the feature to ship it — for free — later on.
 
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My iMac with fusion drive was converted to APFS in the first beta.
Apple not once advised us developers in the subsequent betas to revert back to HFS+ So i think maybe the problem with fusion drives is not that serious.......
Only with the release of GM the support document was put up with the advise to revert back to HFS+.
I am still on beta 9 and don’t have any issues with my data or the filesystem thus far so i will wait until the next developer beta and see if i can pick up from there ( fingers crossed)
 
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chucker23n1 said:
No, I did get that point. Apple's mistake here is that they were overconfident in promising the feature, and it's fine to criticize them for that.

However, they gracefully backtracked rather than shipping it in an unreliable state. They're not charging you for something they promised and didn't deliver, and they're also not leaving your machine in an unreliable state. They're simply delaying the feature to ship it — for free — later on.
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As I said to Analog Kid, to each his own. What you consider "for free" I consider part of the purchase price. You don't get a discount for features missing at the time of purchase so I'm not sure how you'd consider that free.

If product A is advertised with features B thru H but ships with B thru E, and F, G, and H comes in a future update... yeah no, you're not getting F, G, and H for free. You've already paid for them. That's okay for some people. No judgment. It's not okay for me. That's not just an Apple criticism either. Too many companies find this an acceptable business practice and too many customers excuse it. Just my opinion.
 
69Mustang said:
As I said to Analog Kid, to each his own. What you consider "for free" I consider part of the purchase price. You don't get a discount for features missing at the time of purchase so I'm not sure how you'd consider that free.
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And what purchase price did you pay for High Sierra?

69Mustang said:
If product A is advertised with features B thru H but ships with B thru E, and F, G, and H comes in a future update... yeah no, you're not getting F, G, and H for free. You've already paid for them.
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But you haven't. Your Mac came with Sierra, El Capitan, Yosemite, whatever.

Any kind of features they add to future macOS upgrades are subsidized through future Mac hardware sales, sure. But you don't miss out either way whether they add a feature or not.

69Mustang said:
That's okay for some people. No judgment. It's not okay for me. That's not just an Apple criticism either. Too many companies find this an acceptable business practice and too many customers excuse it. Just my opinion.
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Again, this would be entirely different if you bought a piece of hardware and Apple suddenly would announce it lacks a software feature. E.g., if they were to first advertise the iPhone X as having Face ID, then backpedaling and saying it'll receive it in a future update. I think that would be a more suitable analogy.

In this case, I just don't see how that fits. Should they have delayed High Sierra altogether instead?
 
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chucker23n1 said:
And what purchase price did you pay for High Sierra?



But you haven't. Your Mac came with Sierra, El Capitan, Yosemite, whatever.

Any kind of features they add to future macOS upgrades are subsidized through future Mac hardware sales, sure. But you don't miss out either way whether they add a feature or not.



Again, this would be entirely different if you bought a piece of hardware and Apple suddenly would announce it lacks a software feature. E.g., if they were to first advertise the iPhone X as having Face ID, then backpedaling and saying it'll receive it in a future update. I think that would be a more suitable analogy.

In this case, I just don't see how that fits. Should they have delayed High Sierra altogether instead?
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Upon reflection, I probably chose the wrong thread for my "coming in a future update" rant. What was meant as a general criticism of release then fix/update is being reinterpreted for different narrative... primarily due to me not stating my point clearly enough it seems. Let's just agree that we feel differently about this subject.
 
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69Mustang said:
Upon reflection, I probably chose the wrong thread for my "coming in a future update" rant. What was meant as a general criticism release then fix/update is being reinterpreted for different narrative... primarily due to me not stating my point clearly enough it seems. Let's just agree that we feel differently about this subject.
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I totally agree with your general criticism that software companies increasingly ship unfinished products, FWIW.
 
EightyTwenty said:
But I have no complaints. Who needs a SSD?! I turn on my iMac first thing in the morning when I wake up and by the time I come home from work that evening the machine is almost finished booting. Works great for my needs!
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Joking aside, my 2013 3TB fusion iMac boots quite fast but it's on 24/7 year round. The only time it reboots is when I switch to Bootcamp to game.
 
roverma said:
My iMac with fusion drive was converted to AFS in the first beta.
Apple not once advised us developers in the subsequent betas to revert back to HFS+ So i think maybe the problem with fusion drives is not that serious.......
Only with the release of GM the support document was put up with the advise to revert back to HFS+.
I am still om beta 9 and don’t have any issues with my data or the filesystem thus far so i will wait until the next developer beta and see if i can pick up from there ( fingers crossed)
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Same here. I’m just gonna wait, haven’t had any problems with beta 9 Fusion. iOS 11 is another story though.
 
chucker23n1 said:
I totally agree with your general criticism that software companies increasingly ship unfinished products, FWIW.
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That’s been true for about 3 decades now. It’s somewhat new for Apple to rush releases, ever since the accelerated development cycle since 10.6

Feature-itis is the enemy of stable releases.
The #1 rule of software development:
Speed, features, stability — pick any two.
 
EdT said:
Aren’t a majority of iMacs and a significant portion of MacBooks fusion drives?
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Most MBs are SSD.
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69Mustang said:
Sweet Jeebus. What isn't coming in a future update?:rolleyes: One could be forgiven for thinking Apple has adopted the video game industry's motto: Release now - patch later.
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Not getting your moneys worth for the upgrade, eh? rolleyes
 
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SMGreenfield said:
And, as I've said in other threads, you CAN have an HDD APFS boot drive if you first format the HDD (or partition) to APFS and THEN install High Sierra on it.

I think the discussion about HDD and APFS is that the High Sierra install maybe doesn't offer the option for in-place boot drive conversion.
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Interesting. I haven't heard this. Looks like I may have a reform in my future. But would it be more beneficial to just upgrade to an SSD?
 
Glad they officially announced that it would be supported. Overall, I've actually been surprised at how well the Fusion Drive works in the 2017 iMac. The difference vs. an SSD for everyday use is not as big of a drop-off as I was expecting.
 
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roverma said:
Apple not once advised us developers in the subsequent betas to revert back to HFS+ So i think maybe the problem with fusion drives is not that serious.......
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Odds are it's a serious bug/issue but it doesn't happen routinely/normally. In this case, people are probably okay to continue with APFS but if it does crop up and cause problems, Apple will revert to their beta warnings (don't install on production hardware) as well as how they "advised" users to convert back to HFS+ and gave instructions on how to do it.
 
Can someone verify... Bootcamp is broken with this update? or was that a one off. That's a hard stop for me.
 
69Mustang said:
I honestly have no idea what you're trying to say. :confused:
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You see this attitude occasionally with Linux ("not getting your money's worth ... rolls eyes", or some facsimile) - if you aren't paying money for the system you have no right to complain about bugs or deficiencies. My thought is, if you aren't being charged directly for system upgrades, does that mean the developers providing the software upgrades are doing so gratis, out of joy in their hearts? I'd say, generally, not. The upgrades are provided in order to make the system more attractive to both current and future users of the product. This is why nearly all software upgrades by various companies are provided "for free". This goes for Android, iOS, MacOS, Linux distros, ChromeOS, Windows, and most application software upgrades. If no one ever complained about deficiencies in this stuff, there would be little motivation to improve.
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utcarsons said:
Can someone verify... Bootcamp is broken with this update? or was that a one off. That's a hard stop for me.
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Here's a post regarding APFS beta for a bootcamp partition - general gist is, yes, APFS has issues with Windows partitions right now:

https://forums.developer.apple.com/thread/85143
 
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Morpheo said:
Fusion drives and HDDs will be both compatible with APFS.
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That's good. It irks me not having a nice new fancy file system, but I don't use my Mac enough to warrant buying a shiny new one with modern hardware inside.

Maybe I should do some surgery and fit an SSD myself...
 
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