Apple's Craig Federighi: Mac Not Meeting the Bar for Customer Protection

[MacRumors]

Apple software engineering chief Craig Federighi is testifying in the ongoing Apple v. Epic games trial this afternoon, providing details about iPhone security to convince the judge that any change to the App Store policies would be detrimental to iPhone users.

Epic Games wants the judge to force Apple to allow multiple app stores on iOS, similar to how it works on Mac, which would allow users to install apps that have not been reviewed by Apple. During questioning, Federighi was asked why app stores on iOS shouldn't work like the Mac, where apps can be installed via the Mac App Store or from third-party sources.

In response, Federighi said third-party app installation is often exploited on the Mac. "iOS has established a dramatically higher bar for customer protection," he said. "The Mac is not meeting that bar today."

He went on to explain that the level of malware on the Mac is not something that Apple finds acceptable, and if iOS worked similarly, it would be overrun with malware, a particular danger because there are far more iOS devices.

Sideloading apps on iOS would "dramatically" change security on iOS, according to Federighi. "No human policy review could be enforced because software could be downloaded directly." People could put an unsafe app up for sale and "no one would check that policy."

Federighi was also asked about earlier testimony that said iOS and Android have no significant security differences, leading him to point out a report from Nokia that said Android devices have 30 times more malware infections than iOS devices. "It's well understood in the security community that Android has a malware problem that iOS has succeeded in staying ahead of," he said.

Later this week, Apple CEO Tim Cook will also be testifying in the trial. Yesterday, we heard lengthy testimony from Apple Fellow Phil Schiller, who is in charge of the App Store. Schiller focused on the inner workings of the App Store, the App Store's value, and the value of Apple's SDKs for developers.

Article Link: Apple's Craig Federighi: Mac Not Meeting the Bar for Customer Protection

 

[HeavenDynamic]

And there it goes
macOS 12 : you can no longer install apps outside the Mac App Store

 

[maternidad]

There was no such claim.

 

[StupidOpinion]

Epic really needs to win this for our sake

 

[cmaier]

There was no such claim.

What claim do you refer to?

 

[Amazing Iceman]

There was no such claim.

He's got a vivid imagination...
But still, out of jokes, it's a possibility. Or at least, it will require signed applications.

Users can still compile and side load their own apps with Xcode at this time.

 

[Amazing Iceman]

What claim do you refer to?

(see post #2)

 

[LiE_]

Epic really needs to win this for our sake

Agreed, I can’t wait to install all that malware ASAP…

 

[XXPP]

If Apple loses, it will be the end of a secure platform. Various companies, game publishers and banks will begin to force you to install applications from their stores. there will be 100 different stores and a total mess.

 

[thedocbwarren]

If Apple loses, it will be the end of a secure platform. Various companies, game publishers and banks will begin to force you to install applications from their stores. there will be 100 different stores and a total mess.

Android already had that years ago before Google Play. Big mess. Can't say I'm an expert as I avoid the platform for this reason.

And this would effect Windows 10 S I beleive as well would it not? This is ridiculous.

 

[Realityck]

I think Mac Rumors should have included more of the discussion from Craig Federighi, what's posted doesn't present his side well.

See Craig Federighi says the Mac has an ‘unacceptable’ malware problem 9to5Mac 5/19/21

 

[Blkant]

I like my iPhone being locked down as it’s a small integrated device that follows me everywhere throughout the day, but for the love of god not my Macs. They are different devices with different purposes, a policy that works for one won’t necessarily work for the other.

This case should have never gotten this far.

 

[dba415]

Gotta love Apple ruining MacOS in order to protect their money from iOS. Greed

 

[Pakaku]

I would not be opposed to the ability to download iOS apps from anywhere. Yes, it would be like the Mac, and I don't think that's a bad thing.

But that doesn't mean I support Epic's side, they have proven to be a horribly scummy company and it goes far beyond just "Fortnite on iOS".

 

[Scipster]

Yet another reason to install anti-virus and anti-malware software on your devices!

I don't know if I have been lucky or what, but I have not encountered any viruses or malware on my macs since I started using them in the 90s. Same on Windows for that matter... maybe it is more user error? Rather than the OS manufacturer error?

 

[jav6454]

Epic really needs to win this for our sake

No, the reason I keep within the iPhone is due to the App Store and the limits Apple establishes on app distribution. Not to mention the adherence to one security standard, not several.

 

[v3rlon]

If Apple loses, it will be the end of a secure platform. Various companies, game publishers and banks will begin to force you to install applications from their stores. there will be 100 different stores and a total mess.

If I wanted to run something like Android, I understand there are at least 2 phones out there that support it. I could just use one of those.

If you WANT an Android like experience, and you don't like Apple hardware, and you think Apple charges too much for everything, why in the world are you on Apple phones? It isn't difficult.

Microsoft Office has options (and I am sure Numbers over Excel isn't what's holding you back).
Apple Photos?
Safari?

What iOS only application has you married to iPhones while you want to run other Apps? And if you just HAVE to have Apple but don't care about the warranty/safety of the walled garden, you could just jailbreak and go that way.

No, I do not want Epic to win this. I like my App store safe and secure. Given the interconnected Apple applications, how safe would everything be if some number of users were downloading tons of malware?

 

[v3rlon]

Yet another reason to install anti-virus and anti-malware software on your devices!

I did. It is called the iOS app store.

 

[Altivec88]

If Apple loses, it will be the end of a secure platform. Various companies, game publishers and banks will begin to force you to install applications from their stores. there will be 100 different stores and a total mess.

I will try my best to force developers hands by not downloading anything that is not on the Apple Store but as you mentioned, they are going to try to force you to use their store by not making it available on the Apple Store. If this ever goes through, it is going to be a total disaster. hundreds of stores to search for something, Hundreds of accounts that will want to store your CC#, hundreds of stores to keep checking for software updates. and then add the security ramifications to that and I smack myself in the head to end users who think this is a good idea.

 

[Number 41]

I rely on a phone as a communications device first and foremost. I need it to work 100% of the time. It also follows me around, stays on my person, and has access to WAY more information about me personally -- my exact location (via GPS), what I'm saying (via the microphone), what I'm seeing (via the camera), etc. With the Apple Watch, it also his my personal health information that I never want being out without my permission.

I'm exponentially more comfortable with the idea that my phone is locked down and in a walled garden of reviewed applications than I am my computer. This is (no pun intended) an apples to oranges comparison.

The idea that people are rooting for Epic to win and make their devices less secure is just insanity and shows a profound lack of understanding as to exactly how vulnerable their lives are when it comes to their personal digital devices. There's a reason law enforcement tries to crack open these things the second someone is arrested.

 

[antnythr]

He literally threw MacOS under the bus to save iOS 😆

They're scrambling in this case and they know they're not winning.

 

[Amazing Iceman]

Yet another reason to install anti-virus and anti-malware software on your devices!

I don't know if I have been lucky or what, but I have not encountered any viruses or malware on my macs since I started using them in the 90s. Same on Windows for that matter... maybe it is more user error? Rather than the OS manufacturer error?

Antivirus and anti malware software are not 100% effective detecting new and unknown software to them.
These programs are good at detecting known malware, not new malware.
Besides the fact that these make your computer run slow... I guess you like it to be slow...

 

[brofkand]

I will try my best to force developers hands by not downloading anything that is not on the Apple Store but as you mentioned, they are going to try to force you to use their store by not making it available on the Apple Store. If this ever goes through, it is going to be a total disaster. hundreds of stores to search for something, Hundreds of accounts that will want to store your CC#, hundreds of stores to keep checking for software updates. and then add the security ramifications to that and I smack myself in the head to end users who think this is a good idea.

Outside of behemoths like Epic with Fortnite, who has an app so important that people are actually going to go into their phone's developer options and enable third party app installation to install it? These chicken little arguments are why I have little sympathy for Apple in this case.

 

[simnew]

Of course, one crucial difference is that no-one wants to run anti-virus or malware software on their iPhone, but most sensible people do run some kind of anti-virus or malware on their Mac with very little consequence other than reducing the risk of malware even more than by having MacOS alone.

 

[brofkand]

He literally threw MacOS under the bus to save iOS 😆

They're scrambling in this case and they know they're not winning.

When it was Apple themselves that released a bug in macOS not that long ago that enabled my Mac's root account with no password. Maybe if they would get back to testing their software, macOS would have less malware.