Apple's Craig Federighi Says Sideloading on iPhone Would Open the Floodgates to Malware

[Mockletoy]

Your comment is comically ignorant to the motivations of malicious actors who will exploit any platform. Just because your one DOS emulator is safe doesn’t mean it will remain safe or that other apps people want from side loading won’t be a point of ingress for such an attack.

So what?

I know you guys enjoy all this breathless melodrama, but relax. I promise, if iOS were made to work like literally every other OS in existence the sky would not fall, the world would not end, and roving gangs of cannibals would not eat your children.

 

[Mockletoy]

I don’t know but I suspect you are to young to know how getting old and not being able to track all of those changes and new ways of exploitation come up. Trust me it will happen to you where you think you’re doing a good job of managing it all and then you find out some organization found a clever way to exploit even you. Apple’s system is NOT perfect but it is more affective than opening the gates and expecting people to adapt and get smarter.

How is it my problem if old people are too out of touch to protect themselves?

Old people are also often terrible drivers, but we don’t put governors on everyone else’s cars to make old people less likely to get into a crash, do we?

Because that would be quite silly.

 

[I7guy]

So what?

I know you guys enjoy all this breathless melodrama, but relax. I promise, if iOS were made to work like literally every other OS in existence the sky would not fall, the world would not end, and roving gangs of cannibals would not eat your children.

As I said above, this is a pretty low bar of design inspired functionality.

 

[Mockletoy]

Speaking about security, Apple first should get rid of Settings > General > Reset > Erase All Content and Settings on iOS.

There are plenty of grandmas few clicks away from losing all their photos and stuff, if they're on the base iCloud 5 Gb plan.

Actually, they should just delete the phone/dialing app, too, because that’s how scammers contact people!

And Safari definitely has to go, because think of all the shady websites someone might visit!

 

[Mockletoy]

As I said above, this is a pretty low bar of design inspired functionality.

What tickles me is knowing that if Apple came out tomorrow and said sideloading is fantastic and they support it wholeheartedly the majority of the people in this thread oh-so-stridently railing against it would suddenly find it quite a lovely thing indeed.

 

[nebojsak]

There are at least 2 people on MR who certainly would.

 

[nebojsak]

I don’t understand why people want Apple to make this change if they can just choose an option that already exists for them to do so.

Maybe it's because few of us remember Apple from few decades ago. But things have changed, and now it's company that heads towards further debilitating their user base in order to make more profit, and nothing else.

It's not that easy to change the ecosystem I've been in for a two decades, but I can see that happening in the near future. I've had owned Apple desktops regularly, from various G4s to cheesegrater MacPros, and recently built myself a powerful Hackintosh for heavy duty jobs, because I simply cannot afford to throw $6000 for the base semimodular workstation with pathetic 250 Gb of storage and third grade GPU, without a display. Left a few Airs around for things on the go, but I can see clearly what's coming next, locking systems more and more to suit grandmas and kids, with big bold fonts and beautiful new emojis.

 

[Wildkraut]

I don’t know but I suspect you are to young to know how getting old and not being able to track all of those changes and new ways of exploitation come up. Trust me it will happen to you where you think you’re doing a good job of managing it all and then you find out some organization found a clever way to exploit even you. Apple’s system is NOT perfect but it is more affective than opening the gates and expecting people to adapt and get smarter.

Thanks, for calling me young! ?
Daughter:20ys old
Son:15ys old

 

[Macbookprodude]

This man is a propagandist and fear mongerer.

This man is a propagandist and fear mongerer.

Nope, the guy is a moron and an idiot. I have always not liked Federique - a Psychopathic liar and con-artist.

 

[TheToolGuide]

I have been an Apple customer for many years. I have 2 Macs (3 of you count a still-working 2007 MBP in my closet), an iPad, an Apple Watch … I’ve got a lot of software, apps, and purchased content.

So, no, I can’t just buy a new phone for a relatively minor feature.

In any case, yet again I have someone assuring me that other people doing things to their personal phones will somehow affect you.

But I notice you don’t specify precisely how, other than being certain it will be bad, so very bad …

You bought into this ecosystem with this standard in place. You knew what you were getting when you were purchasing them. Tell me why again you think it needs to change after you’ve gone b**ls deep into it.

I’m only speculating. Side loading apps can bring positive things. It also can bring bad ones. I don’t get to control my information that resides with other people and it already sucks when it somehow gets out into the world and I have to deal with spam or something else. I personally don’t think opening the gates wider is better. Especially if you got yourself into this system over your many years knowing that is how Apple was and you could’ve been buying Windows, Android phones, and whatever that allows for it.

 

[TheToolGuide]

So what?

I know you guys enjoy all this breathless melodrama, but relax. I promise, if iOS were made to work like literally every other OS in existence the sky would not fall, the world would not end, and roving gangs of cannibals would not eat your children.

The world would not end, gangs of cannibals would not eat my children. All of which has nothing to do with what people are actually worried about (I get your sarcasm by the way). Address what people actually do care and worry about with your arguments and why do you care if folks like them and myself want to keep it that way when you can just have it your way on another platform. Are they oppressing you somehow? If you have Apple products understand you got into this ecosystem knowing it was like that.

Please just leave Apple’s ecosystem if you’re so strong on side loading apps. You don’t see Apple folks who like this feature sreeeming to governments to close the doors on Android OS side loading.

 

[maxoakland]

But I notice you don’t specify precisely how, other than being certain it will be bad, so very bad …

It will be bad. So bad. SO bad we can't even tell you how bad it will be because if we did, you wouldn't be able to handle it. Just believe us.

 

[TheToolGuide]

How is it my problem if old people are too out of touch to protect themselves?

Old people are also often terrible drivers, but we don’t put governors on everyone else’s cars to make old people less likely to get into a crash, do we?

Because that would be quite silly.

How does a car have anything to do with them being bad drivers. Also I’d like to see your data that they actually are bad drivers. Statistically they get into far fewer accidents than young people. I think its more you don’t like how older people drive.

How is it your problem. You know what its not. Have some compassion for people who might be less technically inclined than you. What if someone loves the openness of Android OS but gets their grandparents iPhones because its got these features and they want to protect them.

I know people who load Linux on their parents machines and showed them how to get on the internet and read email because it was easier for them to learn and though very open in some ways also less prone to attacks from malware because its a smaller install base.

If you want to side load you iPhone to just go jailbreak it and do just that. Why the hell do you even care about anyone else anyway right?

 

[TheToolGuide]

Maybe it's because few of us remember Apple from few decades ago. But things have changed, and now it's company that heads towards further debilitating their user base in order to make more profit, and nothing else.

It's not that easy to change the ecosystem I've been in for a two decades, but I can see that happening in the near future. I've had owned Apple desktops regularly, from various G4s to cheesegrater MacPros, and recently built myself a powerful Hackintosh for heavy duty jobs, because I simply cannot afford to throw $6000 for the base semimodular workstation with pathetic 250 Gb of storage and third grade GPU, without a display. Left a few Airs around for things on the go, but I can see clearly what's coming next, locking systems more and more to suit grandmas and kids, with big bold fonts and beautiful new emojis.

Great, if you’re unhappy with a thing and have options then change. You did and I’m happy for you. There’s no reason to have loyalty to Apple or any other brand. The “Back in my day company ’X’ used to be about the people” is kind of a entitled view. If you have options that you can transition to that meet your wants and needs than why should you force a company to change for your convenience just because you like the brand.

 

[danny842003]

It’s a fair point, but the option should be given to the people who purchase the hardware.

If they want to implement limitations on warranty coverage or support, that’s their prerogative.

The issue I have with this is it’s a limitation everyone knows exists at time of purchase.

 

[TheToolGuide]

Thanks, for calling me young! ?
Daughter:20ys old
Son:15ys old

This is even more disturbing because while you and likely your kids are technically savvy expecting the rest of the world to miraculously in a short period of time become better at this when we’ve got decades of evidence showing that you can’t expect people to raise the technical understanding of a system that is often designed to confuse and mislead them.

Apple has realized this and have got a user base that feels comfortable with it. Why do you need them to change when you can just use Windows or Android OS. If you have all this Apple technology already you got yourself into this ecosystem knowing full well this is how they operate. If you think those other platforms have it better than why are you wasting your money on Apple products when you can just go over to theirs.

 

[nebojsak]

This is even more disturbing because while you and likely your kids are technically savvy expecting the rest of the world to miraculously in a short period of time become better at this when we’ve got decades of evidence showing that you can’t expect people to raise the technical understanding of a system that is often designed to confuse and mislead them.

Apple has realized this and have got a user base that feels comfortable with it. Why do you need them to change when you can just use Windows or Android OS. If you have all this Apple technology already you got yourself into this ecosystem knowing full well this is how they operate. If you think those other platforms have it better than why are you wasting your money on Apple products when you can just go over to theirs.

To put it your way - then they should't use new technology. There are dumb phones all around.

 

[makitango]

The amount of namecalling each other and putting everyone in boxes here is astounding. People getting bashed for being long-time Apple users and simply having expectations is just ridiculous. I remember the times when we had the butterfly keyboard and people being equally as rude then saying „yeah if you don‘t like it, buy a Windows laptop“. It‘s simply rude, egoistic and shows zero empathy for others, at least that is how I feel about it.
People should remember that Apple thinks with money in mind first, things like privacy, security and quality are second priority if we‘re even that happy, otherwise we would have much higher QA standards or better hardware components.
Not too long ago there was the annual investors‘ board vote where Apple gives recommendations. One such recommendation was to vote „no“ to take attention at human rights in China.

Please respect that some people simply voice out their feedback in here because huge corporations such as Apple don‘t have an open ear for that unless social media or laws make them listen.
And try to not see things in pure classic black and white. If you want an open or closed system, that should not force you to go for the competition. After all, Apple‘s founding user base was one that relied on openly installable software. But that of course is not where the money is.

 

[osx'r]

The issue I have with this is it’s a limitation everyone knows exists at time of purchase.

Oh absolutely! In the end, I like the way the iPhone (and iOS) work, and have no need to advocate for change as it works fine for me. And as you said, people (including I) knew about how locked down iOS is when I bought into it. Sure, I liked to tinker with m iPhone 4 to get some functionality that was otherwise missing, but those days are long gone and I no longer feel the need to do so as the phone does what I need it to do.

But I think there’s a different issue at play here, which is what I think this article is focused on. We need to distinguish between the users who knowingly bought into the ecosystem (and are fine with it) vs regulatory bodies and lawmakers who fancy themselves as those empowered to effect change, and are suggesting that limitation needs to be abolished. But that’s what they do, I guess.

 

[TheToolGuide]

To put it your way - then they should't use new technology. There are dumb phones all around.

That is also a short sighted way of thinking. As time passes and technology evolves so does how we communicate and do just about every day things. Try to go write a check at a business and see how much more difficult it is as opposed to 15 years ago. Many employees in services probably wouldn’t even know how to process it even if the place can take checks while an old employee might just walk over and say “Ha, let me show you how us geriatrics use to do it.”

People don’t call people as much and communicate through text instead. Imagine being in the 90s and someone just wanted to message you all the time. It would be a frustrating way to communicate and the times would not accommodate well for it.

Same goes for people who are less technical. I’m sure many of them would like to go without any of this technology. However to function in the world they are often dragged forward through it. Its not wrong to give them a system they feel more comfortable with. Some adapt really well like yourself and your family. While others may never feel comfortable with it.

This isn’t exclusive to older people either. A lot of people from all ages don’t want the additional stress of having all those things to check for. Maybe they’re busier than you and me combined and need to feel comfortable the technology they use won’t compromise their company, employees, or customers they might have on their phones because they aren’t a big business who can just have an IT person(s) handle all of that.

The more you respond the more I get the sense you really only think about yourself and want you want. You have a good comfortable place that you reside in. That doesn’t mean you need to force it on others that would not like your lifestyle.

 

[Philip_S]

You do know that sideloaded apps will ask for permission to access your data like any other App Store app, right?

If iOS is written well, they have to, but is all that data restricted by the OS or by libraries running as the app’s user?

 

[Mockletoy]

You bought into this ecosystem with this standard in place. You knew what you were getting when you were purchasing them. Tell me why again you think it needs to change after you’ve gone b**ls deep into it.

I’m only speculating. Side loading apps can bring positive things. It also can bring bad ones. I don’t get to control my information that resides with other people and it already sucks when it somehow gets out into the world and I have to deal with spam or something else. I personally don’t think opening the gates wider is better. Especially if you got yourself into this system over your many years knowing that is how Apple was and you could’ve been buying Windows, Android phones, and whatever that allows for it.

I've been in the Mac ecosystem since long before there was ever such a thing as iOS, and we didn't even know what "apps" as we now understand them even were when the the iPhone first came out, so, nope.

 

[TheToolGuide]

I've been in the Mac ecosystem since long before there was ever such a thing as iOS, and we didn't even know what "apps" as we now understand them even were when the the iPhone first came out, so, nope.

I've been in the Mac ecosystem since long before there was ever such a thing as iOS, and we didn't even know what "apps" as we now understand them even were when the the iPhone first came out, so, nope.

This has literally been a day one feature of iOS App Store. I’m not saying it can’t evolve. I just don’t think this is needed when you have options and should vote with your wallet.

 

[amartinez1660]

Just in case some exploit tinkers with the “hidden” proposed side loading preferences, switches and options that would then cascade into tons of apps being side loaded and hidden without even knowing… would it be possible to put it better behind some hard locked, or even iCloud backed locked setting?

I mention iCloud because it’s similar to how locking, wipeout, etc work on FindMy for lost or stolen phones… so something that requires an actual authenticated server connection that asks for a two factor confirmation for a first time app install or at least for every time the side loaded app switch changes to “on”.

I think we won’t stay long without side loading apps, but what I think a lot seem to be missing is that the existence of a switch that allows for it (no matter how hidden under system preferences) means that now that switch can be attacked and hacked.

 

[nebojsak]

The more you respond the more I get the sense you really only think about yourself and want you want. You have a good comfortable place that you reside in. That doesn’t mean you need to force it on others that would not like your lifestyle.

No. I want choice for everyone. I don't want the ecosystem I'm in for decades setting the lowest common denominator that low, following suit and becoming company for those who need disclaimers "do not put your fingers in" on electric outlets. It's that simple.