Apple's Data Encryption Changes in the UK Explained

[lanceuppercut47]

Not quite sure I understand you. Unless with sarcasm? Add a contact or safely store your key for your privacy takes less than five minutes for end to end encryption. I know many people that don't care and as such won't bother but it really is not a huge effort for (in my opinion) a big upside.

I like that Apple offers it and people can decide for themselves. I would personally add it to the setup of a new device so people can decide for themselves.

There are so many people out there who aren't tech savvy, they are usually the ones who after breaking their phone, ask if they can buy iCloud to somehow magically back up their data from their dead phone.

 

[iSee]

> The order would have required Apple to create a backdoor to its end-to-end encryption system

By definition, if there's a built-in back door, it's not end-to-end encrypted.

Apple really could not comply with the order and keep billing it as end-to-end encrypted.

Well, they could flat-out lie to their customers, of course, but that would not last long.

 

[Flore]

Because Apple holds the encryption keys.

Incorrect. Some iCloud services are already end to end encrypted by default, like Health data.

For those, Apple does not hold the encryption keys and never has, yet they’re not part of this discussion.

It’s not clear to me why.

 

[Flight Plan]

...is the average user going to notice anything? No.

The "average user" would not be using ADP anyhow. So they won't notice it going away.

The UK welcomes Authoritarianism. They join the ranks of North Korea and China on infringing citizen's privacy.

The UK votes in favor of authoritarianism every chance it gets. There's not even a freedom of speech in the UK. You CAN be imprisoned for something you say.

Yup. Joining also the ranks of the current decrepit USA too.

This was true under our prior administration. But that is rapidly changing all across the fruited plain.

You forgot to add the NSA.

The NSA is being found out right now because they used government-issued devices to carry on with their debauchery AND because they didn't take even the most mild actions to avoid being found out.

I don't care all that much about debauchery, EXCEPT that as a taxpayer, I was paying the salaries of people who were engaged in said debauchery while on the clock. That means that they defrauded me, the American taxpayer.

I have had fraud committed against me, so now I want my pound of flesh. If stories are to be believed, the NSA has lots of pounds of flesh, and they showed pretty much all of it, and left nothing to the imagination.

I’m not saying the U.K. government is right or wrong but all governments spy on their citizens. It’s the price we pay to help the police catch serious and organised crime gangs.

I'll say it. The UK government is wrong. They aren't catching any serious and/or organized crime gangs, either. That's because the UK spends more time trying to imprison its own subjects (because they are owned by the Crown and not by themselves) than it does trying to catch any real criminals.

This is the cheapest and quickest way for Apple to come in compliance with the UK.

Unfortunately, I can see ADP being turned off in more countries as more countries implement laws similar to the UK.

You may be right. And that would be because those countries don't observe the rights of their citizens. If they even HAVE citizens, that is. Either you are a citizen or you are an owned human. Owned by your government. Everybody should be super careful with their vote (if they even get one).

Two problems:

Firstly, the authorities never get enough. Because in the logic of the state, the citizen is an enemy.

This is always the case for countries that do not honor personal rights.

Because the citizen wants to change the state. Replace the politicians. Adapt the authorities.

Secondly, it makes the technology more vulnerable to criminals. In other words, “thanks” to the state's backdoors, citizens are at the mercy of criminals without protection.
That includes also car keys, apartment doors or safes.

You're not wrong. Not in the least.

I must admit, I had ADP turned off already. Didn't even know it existed. Feels a bit like a storm in a teacup.

I just checked; I also have it turned off. I have a new weekend task now, and that is to educate and train myself in its use.

Turning on ADP requires managing recovery contacts and/or recovery keys. If you mess that up, you can lose access to your data if you lose your device(s). That's a lot to require of every single customer.

It's a lot to require of "every single customer", yes. But not of THIS single customer (me). I'll train myself in its use.

Not quite sure I understand you. Unless with sarcasm? Add a contact or safely store your key for your privacy takes less than five minutes for end to end encryption. I know many people that don't care and as such won't bother but it really is not a huge effort for (in my opinion) a big upside.

I like that Apple offers it and people can decide for themselves. I would personally add it to the setup of a new device so people can decide for themselves.

I agree.

Can “the user” assess what level of security he needs?
If we are honest, with regard to the constant “break-ins” and thefts in servers, not even companies can manage it.
If we are even more honest, even many states and politicians do not want to recognize that IT security is important.

But should the average user be the one to judge? I can already hear him shouting, “Why didn't anyone protect me from the criminals?!”

Replace ‘cybersecurity’ with ‘vaccination’.

But I think it's a cultural issue again.
This ‘personal responsibility’ to the point of self-destruction is typically American. As a European, I lack understanding for that.

I don't get your point about vaccinations. But the truth of it is that we were given vaccinations that did not protect us against the thing they were supposed to protect us against.

So it's natural that a lot of Americans no longer trust the American government. We have questions, and we'd like answers to those questions.

Ironically the only people who know about ADP and turned it on are Criminals.

This is a lie. You know better than this. There are LOTS of people, like myself, who have never committed a crime, who would like to turn it on.

It's still encrypted. Just not as much.

You don't understand encryption very well at all, do you?

I bet about 0.1% of people used it... or even knew about it.

On this, I agree with you. But now that it's getting a lot of media attention, I'll bet that changes very quickly.

Someone needs to remind the British government that "1984" is not an instruction manual.

Remember, the British government never ever, not even once agreed to respect its subjects' rights. One step further, the British government hasn't even acknowledged that its subjects even HAVE any rights!

This is why America fought for its independence. We had the temerity to claim that all humans have self-evident rights, and for that reason alone, it became immediately evident that Americans were incompatible with British rule.

True. At the same time, I've been surprised to see how much visual surveillance is already happening in the UK. For instance, it looks like CCTVs are really everywhere monitoring the public. At least where I live in the US, that doesn't seem to be the case. And it seems like this spread of CCTVs in the UK has been going on for a couple of decades now.

This is to say that 1984 already is part of the British government's operation.

The UK can even put people in prison for saying something wrong....including people not from the UK!

I agree. When another group that demands similar access is the CCP in China, everyone who is in favor of this in the UK should look in the mirror and see which side of history they wish to be on: 1984-style mass surveillance or a free country.

The UK can always choose to change its course, but I think it's quite plain which side of history the UK has chosen. The UK does not have citizens. They are only "subjects". Which means the UK government can do pretty much anything it wants to those subjects.

Of course the UK government doesn't want you to have access to things like data encryption. How else will they know what you're up to?

 

[Reason077]

The UK does not have citizens. They are only "subjects".

No, the UK does have citizens. British citizens and British subjects are two different types of British nationality. Now days, the vast majority of people who hold a UK passport are British citizens. "British subject" is mostly a historical status, and it's extremely rare for anyone to have been granted this status after 1983.

Here's an article which explains the 6 (!) different types of British nationality:

Types of British nationality

The different types of British nationality explained - British citizen, British overseas territories citizen, British overseas citizen, British subject, British national (overseas), British protected person

www.gov.uk

 

[Flight Plan]

No, the UK does have citizens. British citizens and British subjects are two different types of British nationality. Now days, the vast majority of people who hold a UK passport are British citizens. "British subject" is mostly a historical status, and it's extremely rare for anyone to have been granted this status after 1983.

Here's an article which explains the 6 (!) different types of British nationality:

Types of British nationality

The different types of British nationality explained - British citizen, British overseas territories citizen, British overseas citizen, British subject, British national (overseas), British protected person

www.gov.uk

Well that's interesting. But it is what we would call "a distinction without a difference".

Here's what I mean by that. You can't speak freely against your government in the UK. You can speak out against America, yes; but you can't criticize your own government unless you want to run the risk of being punished and even imprisoned. You don't have any right to free speech.

You can't defend yourself or your family, either with or without weapons. Hey, did that old man ever get out of jail for defending his wife in the iron lung from the intruders who broke in? Yeah, old man stabbed one of them with a knife in the kitchen, and the bad guy died. But old man was sentenced to some years in prison. Don't know if the government ever took over the daily care of his wife or if they just let her die during the first power outage in their house.

And a question. Can the British government force a "citizen" to house a member of the military? The US government can't force an American citizen to house a member of the military.

Those are the FIRST THREE enumerated rights in the US Bill of Rights. Britain has no rights like those.

The fourth amendment protects American citizens from illegal/unreasonable searches of our person or property. Which is kind of what the UK has tried to violate by asking Apple to give up the keys to everybody's data.

We're almost halfway through the Bill of Rights. But I think I've made my point. The UK doesn't respect personal rights or liberties, because IT DOESN'T HAVE TO.

 

[John_Blackthorne]

If there is a backdoor, there is no encryption. It is either/or, not, "only a few people in Britain even use it."

That's no different than saying, "well, what do you have to hide?"

You have protection or you don't. Ones and zeros.

If you hate the leader of the USA so much you try and excuse this, you're beyond help.

Even Uber USA-President bashing John Gruber agrees this is madness and sides with Orange Man.

 

[zarmanto]

... Those are the FIRST THREE enumerated rights in the US Bill of Rights. Britain has no rights like those.

The fourth amendment protects American citizens from illegal/unreasonable searches of our person or property. Which is kind of what the UK has tried to violate by asking Apple to give up the keys to everybody's data. ...

And lest we forget our history: Britain's attempt at enforcing taxation of the early American settlers was the very inspiration for those rights. So ironically, If it were not for the tyrannical iron fist of the British monarchy, an ocean away, these rights may have never been codified as they are.