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Apple's Deep Pockets Affecting Spotify Contract Renewals

Give the record labels some stock options that they can exercise after an IPO. The more profitable Spotify becomes the more will their shares rise. They can also use the shares to gain some influence on the distribution, if they don't want to sell them.
 
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thewolfro said:
Ohhh no. To be honest i don't find it fair. I think a better way would be that both services pay the same to the label and then the customers will pick the interface they like best. That way both Apple and Spotify will try to bring a better product on the market (more customers more money).
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Question then is - what is that level? Should Apple Pay as little as Spotify, or should Spotify be paying as much as Apple?

I think it's interesting that this is like a reverse "race to the bottom", which then begs the question - what is a "fair" rate to pay the labels, and who decides that rate? Does Spotify get to dictate that rate forever just because they were first? Who is not to say that Apple is paying the right rate here and it's the rest of the industry who should be paying more, rather than Apple paying less?

varera said:
Oh, boo-hoo, Apple pays more. That's good for music, right? Spotify wants to pay less, that's bad for music, correct?

Yet, apple is bad, Spotify is good. Can't really see logics here...
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Don't you know? Everything Apple does is automatically wrong and bad. Two people die at Foxconn, media outlets raise a stink. Never mind that one of them died in a traffic accident unrelated to work.

Hundreds of people get cancer from working at Samsung's factories, nobody makes any noise.

They may as well blame Apple for all the natural disasters in the world while they are at it.
 
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gnasher729 said:
But Spotify's business is apparently not streaming music and getting payments from people, Spotify's business is convincing investors to hand over money.
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You're correct that Spotify is not profitable. But Spotify actually does get payments from people.

They had about $2.2 Billion in revenue in 2015. That's a lot!

Unfortunately... they also had about $2.4 Billion in expenses. In other words... they lost roughly $200 million for the year.

And their losses have been growning every year too... with no end in sight.

It's a wonder why investors keep pumping money into Spotify. They'll never see that money again!
 
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themachugger said:
Generally, consumers will pay MORE for a superior experience. It's not like Apple built a huge following because they were the cheapest on the market. They earned it. If Spotify is really that much better, Spotify can raise their subscription price and be profitable, not whine to the record industry that they should pay less because "we are the little guy." Apple was once "the little guy" (nearly went out of business) and then they built a product that the world loved and happily paid a premium to have. That's one way competition works.
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Yes.

themachugger said:
Regardless, I'm sure the European Union will eventually find a way to call this "anti-competitive" and soak Apple with a big fine so the money will make its way back to Sweden somehow, even if Spotify goes belly-up. That's the modus operandi of the EU.
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No.

Basic primer: http://www.bbc.co.uk/guides/zgjwtyc

There are many, many EU rules and regs that have been useful for me over the years. And many times I'm glad for their intervention for anti-competitive behaviour. The wider topic of whether the EU is working overall is not for this forum. But to think their MO is as simplified as what you paint is sad.

You sound like Donald Trump explaining something he's opposed to, twisting it into something terrible whilst ignoring all the decent parts.
 
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deany said:
Spotify will be in business in 5 years time
However in the next 6 months Spotify will drop the FREE AD based subsciber base and they will move these 'sign ups' ( for want of a better expression) over to monthly payment
Ad based is DEAD.
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75% of Spotify's 30+ million paid users have been using the free tier for a while. The free tier is vital to growing streaming at scale. Google's ineffective integration of Google Music and YouTube results in Google Music / Youtube Red having fewer subscribers than Deezer globally.
Apple's recruitment funnel is platform integration - i.e. that their streaming app is pre-installed on every device and allows for in-app payments without the 30% AppStore cut on top.
 
jaded-mandarin said:
People saying Spotify should pay more really don't get it.

The 3% extra Apple pay isn't out of revenue from Apple Music, that piece of junk software will be haemorrhaging cash.

Spotify isn't a music streaming service owned by a financial powerhouse.

Apple knows what it's doing. It's app is woeful and inferior to Spotify. So it's got the next best thing, slowly crush the competition with money.

It's a pity, because in days gone by innovation and being the best would have won it for Apple.
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Except we know that Apple Music, as part of Apple's Services sector, is profitable and growing quickly.
 
Hmm interesting this. I'm still undecided on the music streaming thing, i'm an IOS user but currently use Spotify, I would like to be able to play music through my home theatre set up but thats proving a bit difficult. I assume we aren't likely to see an Apple TV app any time soon due to Spotifys whining about Apples App Store policies, the Xbox One is a no go aswell because apparently Spotify has an exclusive deal with Sony for the Playstation. After all their crowing about how exclusives are bad for music fans!

Think it might be time for a change.
 
kyjaotkb said:
75% of Spotify's 30+ million paid users have been using the free tier for a while. The free tier is vital to growing streaming at scale. Google's ineffective integration of Google Music and YouTube results in Google Music / Youtube Red having fewer subscribers than Deezer globally.
Apple's recruitment funnel is platform integration - i.e. that their streaming app is pre-installed on every device and allows for in-app payments without the 30% AppStore cut on top.
Click to expand...

Hi
Thanks for the reply. What are Google Play Music subscriber numbers and can you provide link?

thanks
 
It would be nice if Apple would compete by developing better products & services people would actually enjoy using, instead of digging into its massive accumulated cash reserves to merely squash the competitors out of the market altogether. I have tried Apple Music and despite all Apple's exclusive deals, Spotify still offers a way better service for me (better designed app, nicely done "Weekly Discovery" and "Release Radar" lists based on my musical preferences). Both services offer the same pricing at the moment, so there is no incentive for me to switch. As far as music streaming services go, Apple were very late to enter the market and did it with a half-baked product that AM was at launch, thus sabotaging their motto of "not being the first, but doing it better/the right way". Not cool.
 
Regardless of what Apple does Spotify is likely going to eventually go out of business in its current form. It has no path to profitability or long term viability. They had free reign in the market for quite some time and still couldn't figure out how to make money. If their product is as superior as many here claim then perhaps they should increase pricing on users in order to increase revenue. People are usually willing to pay more for a superior product. Apple isn't doing anything wrong here. Spotify's failing is all their own doing.
 
Rob_2811 said:
Hmm interesting this. I'm still undecided on the music streaming thing, i'm an IOS user but currently use Spotify, I would like to be able to play music through my home theatre set up but thats proving a bit difficult. I assume we aren't likely to see an Apple TV app any time soon due to Spotifys whining about Apples App Store policies, the Xbox One is a no go aswell because apparently Spotify has an exclusive deal with Sony for the Playstation. After all their crowing about how exclusives are bad for music fans!

Think it might be time for a change.
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I play Spotify through my HI-Fi system using a Chromecast Audio device (£25 in the UK).
In fact they are so cheap I have one in the lounge and one in the bedroom.
There is also an option to have them synchronised so that they play the same audio at the same time.
(Note: I have a premium subscription and I don't know if this is a requirement or not)

Edit: basically, after you have set it up you use your IOS (or Android) device as a remote control. Note that the Chromecast retrieves the stream directly from the internet (wi-fi) and it doesn't matter what you do with the IOS device once you started playing music.
 
flaw600 said:
Except we know that Apple Music, as part of Apple's Services sector, is profitable and growing quickly.
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Which is like saying Nest, as part of Google, is profitable and growing quickly. It means nothing.

Apple paid $3bn for Beats, I wonder what portion of that was for the streaming service. No two ways about it, Apple Music will be heavily subsidised at current.
 
CrystalQuest76 said:
Free market does not mean a good market.
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I don't think he was debating whether the free market was good or bad, although I could be wrong.

CrystalQuest76 said:
Just look at what what happens to the average person with health insurance.
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Assuming you are talking about US, my insurance has increase $1686.36 in the past year. This was after government intervention(ACA), meaning, it was not free market.

EDIT: added the amount
 
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I have really liked my experience with Apple Music and would honestly pay more for it. I used to buy a few albums a month off iTunes so the monthly subscription is a no brainer and I have access to most music which had been recorded.

One thing I'm passionate about is that artists can still make a living from m music - otherwise music will dry up.

So good on Apple paying a bit more

A blog I follow had written a good piece on their experience with Apple Music

https://martinjoneswriter.com
 
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one more said:
It would be nice if Apple would compete by developing better products & services people would actually enjoy using, instead of digging into its massive accumulated cash reserves to merely squash the competitors out of the market altogether. I have tried Apple Music and despite all Apple's exclusive deals, Spotify still offers a way better service for me (better designed app, nicely done "Weekly Discovery" and "Release Radar" lists based on my musical preferences). Both services offer the same pricing at the moment, so there is no incentive for me to switch. As far as music streaming services go, Apple were very late to enter the market and did it with a half-baked product that AM was at launch, thus sabotaging their motto of "not being the first, but doing it better/the right way". Not cool.
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And that's precisely what Apple is doing for me.

I use Apple Music over Spotify precisely it's better for me. Apple Music has some legitimate advantages, including Siri integration, an Apple TV app, and a better music selection.

Why shouldn't Apple be allowed to use every weapon in its arsenal to its advantage? I certainly don't see any of Apple's competitors showing the same restraint.
 
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Abazigal said:
And that's precisely what Apple is doing for me.

I use Apple Music over Spotify precisely it's better for me. Apple Music has some legitimate advantages, including Siri integration, an Apple TV app, and a better music selection.

Why shouldn't Apple be allowed to use every weapon in its arsenal to its advantage? I certainly don't see any of Apple's competitors showing the same restraint.
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I have no problem with AM music. I really like the for you, the playlists , new music and also Beats 1. Apple do genuinely interested in helping and developing new artists too-

Honestly I'd pay more for it and music c shouldn't be treated like a free resource otherwise it will dry up
 
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kentsydney said:
I have no problem with AM music. I really like the for you, the playlists , new music and also Beats 1. Apple do genuinely interested in helping and developing new artists too-

Honestly I'd pay more for it and music c shouldn't be treated like a free resource otherwise it will dry up
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I personally prefer paying a monthly sum for the ability to play whatever music I want, when I want it, without the hassles of having to manage a music library, and I am fine with possibly losing everything should I ever stop subscribing some day. It's just more convenient for me that way.

Pandora's box has been opened and I don't think there is any going back.
 
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840quadra said:
At the end of the day the issue is the record companies greed
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What a ridiculous statement. Apple owns nothing, absolutely nothing ... without the media being provided by record labels, publishers, movie producers Apple wouldn't have a services business model ... those entities were there long before Apple came on the scene ... absolutely ridiculous statement.
 
Wando64 said:
I play Spotify through my HI-Fi system using a Chromecast Audio device (£25 in the UK).
In fact they are so cheap I have one in the lounge and one in the bedroom.
There is also an option to have them synchronised so that they play the same audio at the same time.
(Note: I have a premium subscription and I don't know if this is a requirement or not)

Edit: basically, after you have set it up you use your IOS (or Android) device as a remote control. Note that the Chromecast retrieves the stream directly from the internet (wi-fi) and it doesn't matter what you do with the IOS device once you started playing music.
Click to expand...

Yes I had looked at the Chromecast Audio, that could be an option.
 
Seanthesheep said:
I have Spotify premium and have not listened/seen one single ad. Out of interest is YouTube dead to you?
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I use Google Music (which includes YouTube Red) so I don't see ads on YouTube or hear them in my music. IMHO, Google needs to do a better job at advertising. They have by far the best music service and value out there. Last time I checked, they also had the 1st or 2nd largest catalog.
 
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