You can beg and differ all you want. While Apple gives you a digital version of a physical calender, MSFT does not give you digital version of street signs. There is no equivalence between taking cues of how information is effectively presented (or, how to build information spaces that are easily navigated) and skeuomorphism. There are no street signs in Windows 8; the design is not skeuomorphic (**** i hate that word).
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Apple's Designers Clashing Over 'Tacky' Software Skeuomorphisms
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You can beg and differ all you want. While Apple gives you a digital version of a physical calender, MSFT does not give you digital version of street signs. There is no equivalence between taking cues of how information is effectively presented (or, how to build information spaces that are easily navigated) and skeuomorphism. There are no street signs in Windows 8; the design is not skeuomorphic (**** i hate that word).
I completely hate any kind of skeuomorphism in software design. For one, I don't like the way it looks. I want clean lines and great visual queues in my software that can take advantage of the technology and compliment the fantastic hardware that Apple designs.
This extensive use of skeuomorphism in Apples software is my second biggest complaint about them (after iTunes being awful). How is mimicking paper or a reel-to-reel tape recorder innovative or advancing user interaction? All it seems to do is cater to baby boomers that see a reel-to-reel or a leather calendar and say "I had one of those! This isn't as scary after all!".
I agree that Windows 8 is a really striking visual redesign, and after a few weeks of using it on desktop, I am excited to try out the Surface.
This extensive use of skeuomorphism in Apples software is my second biggest complaint about them (after iTunes being awful). How is mimicking paper or a reel-to-reel tape recorder innovative or advancing user interaction? All it seems to do is cater to baby boomers that see a reel-to-reel or a leather calendar and say "I had one of those! This isn't as scary after all!".
I agree that Windows 8 is a really striking visual redesign, and after a few weeks of using it on desktop, I am excited to try out the Surface.
I could accept this, and that way both camps are happy. But I suspect that the debate would then switch to which is the default!
People are being highly critical of the skeuomorphic effects in Calendar (please note it is no longer iCal) and yet they barely feature on the screen. In the Podcast app they fill the screen and look horrible.
I'm glad at least some of Apple's designers are opposing this ugly skeumorphism trend that the company is practicing. The last time Ive got knighted there was an interview with him, where it was obvious he was opposed to the practice.
I know the article says Jobs pioneered the practice within Apple, but I can't believe the company would listen to Forstall over Ive when it comes to design.
I know the article says Jobs pioneered the practice within Apple, but I can't believe the company would listen to Forstall over Ive when it comes to design.
Given Sir Ive's talent and reputation for design, I'm surprised anyone has the nerve to argue with him in the first place. He is absolutely right, it looks like trash. They need to get their act together and join us in the modern day, with a modern design.
I don't like these skeuomorphisms at all. It's ugly. If I wanted to use an old leathery calendar or an old-fashioned contacts book I'd use it. But I don't want to, that's why I'm using my Mac and iPhone for these tasks.
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Yes, this may be true for people over 70. But today, people grow up with computers. Most kids today have probably never had an old-fashioned paper calendar with torn-out pages or an leathery address book.
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Yes, this may be true for people over 70. But today, people grow up with computers. Most kids today have probably never had an old-fashioned paper calendar with torn-out pages or an leathery address book.
Exactly with Steve, he would listen to different opinion make his decision.Whether Steve made a good or bad decision, every one would follow his and assume that it was a correct decision. Now Apple people seem to be expressing their differences with Apple's design direction in public.
Personally I think that Apple Skeuomorphic design looks tacky and ugly, but it is part of using Apple products - you get Steve's vision of how things should be and you take it or leave it. Now with Steve gone will we see decision by committee or with Apple trust design to another single person? Jonny Ives seem to be the person at Apple with the "best taste" and he seem to be against Skeuomorphic design.
More power to Android then
Love or hate Apple, the reality is, the Android Jelly Bean minimalist interface PLUS the ability to skin Android gives users the best of both worlds.
As a designer (my hardware is a 2011 MBA 13" BTW), I find Apple's blingy UX concepts awful, although the audio visual puff when you trash or remove something is excellent, providing a visual cue to a sometimes drastic action.
Apple have forgotten their roots, which is creatives and productivity workers who want as little barrier to their progress as possible.
Leave the sparkle to Nintendo.
Love or hate Apple, the reality is, the Android Jelly Bean minimalist interface PLUS the ability to skin Android gives users the best of both worlds.
As a designer (my hardware is a 2011 MBA 13" BTW), I find Apple's blingy UX concepts awful, although the audio visual puff when you trash or remove something is excellent, providing a visual cue to a sometimes drastic action.
Apple have forgotten their roots, which is creatives and productivity workers who want as little barrier to their progress as possible.
Leave the sparkle to Nintendo.
It depends on how strict definition you use, using a texture for purely decorative reasons without any connection or clues to the use, makes it too broad to be useful imo.
Apple was a vehicle for Steve Jobs' vision. He may have lifted a lot of his vision from other people. He certainly employed people with grand talent and ability all their own, like Mr. Ives. But Apple was the manifestation of his will and vision into the tangible world. It was his mind manifesting, driving this vehicle forward. The driver went limp at the wheel. Now it's just a carful of passengers struggling in panic, vying for control. The bickering, the lack of direction, the increasing takeover by corporate moguls who know how to make money but don't have passion or vision for the world.. when Jobs' two or three years worth of plans dries up the vehicle will careen off a cliff, veering away from Silicon Valley and plunging off HWY 101 into the Pacific Ocean.
You can hate the word skeumorphic all you want. At this point, you're arguing about semantics. Apple took "design cues" from a real calendar when making their digital version, just like Microsoft took design cues from street signs when making their icons, which are digital equivilants of street signs.
I wouldn't say that. Apple has its faults, but being a design-by-committee company isn't one of them. Most of the same designers, programmers, and executives that were there for Job's tenure are still there now doing the exact same work they did before. The only difference now is we might start seeing some new things from them. Things that, for one reason or another, Job's didn't particularly like.
This could potentially be a good thing. Job's might've had a good sense of taste and had a knack for knowing "what worked", but he wasn't the end all be all source of great design.
I must admit. I do find myself really coveting the new WP8 interface design.
Android was always a bit "MySpace" for my liking - customisation to the point that people often just made it look bloody awful.
WP8 though gives a nice tight framework in which customisation still comes across as a consolidated 'whole'.
iOS isn't broken by any means, but there has got to come a point where pages of squares no longer cuts it.
In terms of this skeuomorphism (hey, new word...) lark. Every since Garage Band I've been a bit WTF about this type if interface in Apple products.
Apple do it very well of course, but it's always seemed a bit incongruous to their overall Aesthetic...
Android was always a bit "MySpace" for my liking - customisation to the point that people often just made it look bloody awful.
WP8 though gives a nice tight framework in which customisation still comes across as a consolidated 'whole'.
iOS isn't broken by any means, but there has got to come a point where pages of squares no longer cuts it.
In terms of this skeuomorphism (hey, new word...) lark. Every since Garage Band I've been a bit WTF about this type if interface in Apple products.
Apple do it very well of course, but it's always seemed a bit incongruous to their overall Aesthetic...
You anti-skeuomorphic people will get what you want eventually. And I can't wait for all your complaining when Apple's products are boring, bland and lifeless like Android and Windows.
This is the sort of thing I feared would happen when Steve died. People start taking away the things which made Apple unique in the first place. Steve would never have allowed that, quite literally.
This is the sort of thing I feared would happen when Steve died. People start taking away the things which made Apple unique in the first place. Steve would never have allowed that, quite literally.
I agree. After repeating the action several time and having to see the same animated process it may get exhausting and possibly time consuming.
I would much rather they spent time bolstering security. Like deleting entries in wallets should not be the same process as deleting text messages. The sector should be deleted and rewritten with 0's and 1's to ensure and secure delete. Now that would be welcomed!
I'm kind of undecided. Personally I prefer clean, clear layouts with as little visual clutter as possible, and it's one of the few things about Windows Metro (or Windows GUI or whatever it's called this week) that I actually liked, though half their apps failed to demonstrate any real attempt to stick to the basic idea.
Over the years OS X has gotten more and more consistent, clean, and unobtrusive, yet iTunes and Safari continued to use custom widgets that spat in the face of that, and then suddenly Calendar etc. went crazy and became even more different. I mean, does anyone else remember what it was like when we had a mixture of Aqua and brushed metal everywhere? It was horrible, as nearly everyone wanted one or the other, but not both side-by-side.
I can understand why touch devices might want gimmicky faux physical interfaces as cues on what can be touched, but for the desktop I don't see the need, as even desktop users with touch pads aren't actually connecting directly with the apps they're using, so these kinds of novelty designs serve no real purpose.
It's not that they aren't cute in a way, and there's a novelty to them, but I'd rather have practical, efficient and simple from Apple; leave novelty to the third parties.
It's almost like the arrival of Core Animation caused this little spark to ignite at Apple that said "Oh hey, now we can totally do all those things we were never supposed to do before!". I mean, tons of people hate animation in all forms; I don't mind so much so long as it's quick and tells you something about the interface (i.e - it's visual feedback rather than just eye-candy) but it does point to an inconsistent strategy that I think Apple needs to get a grip on.
On the other hand, these kind of friendly gimmicky interfaces can be great for people that are new to the platform, provided it isn't one of the cases where it's actually causing confusion, but seasoned users have no need for it, and the lack of consistency actually interferes with usability since every app ends up slightly different depending upon what it's physical analogue happens to be.
Over the years OS X has gotten more and more consistent, clean, and unobtrusive, yet iTunes and Safari continued to use custom widgets that spat in the face of that, and then suddenly Calendar etc. went crazy and became even more different. I mean, does anyone else remember what it was like when we had a mixture of Aqua and brushed metal everywhere? It was horrible, as nearly everyone wanted one or the other, but not both side-by-side.
I can understand why touch devices might want gimmicky faux physical interfaces as cues on what can be touched, but for the desktop I don't see the need, as even desktop users with touch pads aren't actually connecting directly with the apps they're using, so these kinds of novelty designs serve no real purpose.
It's not that they aren't cute in a way, and there's a novelty to them, but I'd rather have practical, efficient and simple from Apple; leave novelty to the third parties.
It's almost like the arrival of Core Animation caused this little spark to ignite at Apple that said "Oh hey, now we can totally do all those things we were never supposed to do before!". I mean, tons of people hate animation in all forms; I don't mind so much so long as it's quick and tells you something about the interface (i.e - it's visual feedback rather than just eye-candy) but it does point to an inconsistent strategy that I think Apple needs to get a grip on.
On the other hand, these kind of friendly gimmicky interfaces can be great for people that are new to the platform, provided it isn't one of the cases where it's actually causing confusion, but seasoned users have no need for it, and the lack of consistency actually interferes with usability since every app ends up slightly different depending upon what it's physical analogue happens to be.
Apple was made unique by having taste, attention to detail, and beautiful, minimalist design.
Ugly, garish, skeuomorphic interfaces have never been unique to Apple.
That is my thought as well. If it were me and I were Ive though, I probably would stick around despite fighting the losing battle because of my passion for the overall design. I mean, where would he go and if he did, how would that change the game? I bet a lot, really. I think that would affect market share as well.
I personally know a great number of people who do not care about OS X or iOS but they really love the look of Apple products. I would imagine a great number of people even on this forum can take or leave the operating system if they could find something comparable design-wise. Perhaps not the members we hear from day in and day out, but I'd bet there are many in the background.
No kidding. They went from being some of the most used apps on my computer to a complete pain. Having to update contacts has become the most tedious task. Don't get me started on how unusable iCal has become...
I once emailed Steve asking / politely complaining about the increasing amount of this representational guff in Apps, and got a flat "we disagree" in response. When pushed to ask if we could see a toggle on/off like we do with Graphite UI in OSX, I got an even flatter "nope"