Apple's Designers Clashing Over 'Tacky' Software Skeuomorphisms

[fermat-au]

I wouldn't say that. Apple has its faults, but being a design-by-committee company isn't one of them. Most of the same designers, programmers, and executives that were there for Job's tenure are still there now doing the exact same work they did before. The only difference now is we might start seeing some new things from them. Things that, for one reason or another, Job's didn't particularly like.

This could potentially be a good thing. Job's might've had a good sense of taste and had a knack for knowing "what worked", but he wasn't the end all be all source of great design.

He wasn't so much a designer but a great judge of designs, Apple had always needed the likes of Ives to design and Jobs to decide which designs make it out of the labs. Job certainly good sense of taste and had a knack for knowing, the issue is who will take on Jobs' role of deciding which designs are make. Will one person, maybe Ives, be given his power or will it be sent to committee.
The worry is that Apple may fell they need to replace Jobs judgement with design-by-committee or judge-by-committee.

 

[cosmolv]

No kidding. They went from being some of the most used apps on my computer to a complete pain. Having to update contacts has become the most tedious task. Don't get me started on how unusable iCal has become...

That's true, iCal is getting terrible to use and i move to Numbers to plan my & colleagues flexitime working days

i hope Apple don't cut features in future for Numbers too – like monochrome interface and other weird things

 

[Codestud]

I think that having a "leather effect" or whatever in an application should be done as a "theme" that's optionally applied if you want it.

Perhaps Apple could ship the products with the leather as the default theme, and you can revert to a minimal look by turning the theme off.

However, I suspect my suggestion is far too sensible to be considered by anyone because there's too much testosterone flying around at Apple.

 

[unexploded]

So, so cheesy.

What were they thinking when they designed these apps? I can't believe Jobs ever signed these ideas off to be frank. And all that stupid swooshing about that the windows do. I had to turn it all off through Terminal.

It's really tacky. I've continued to buy Apple products for years because they are work horse computers. Yes, they look nice too, but I don't want my calendar to look like, well a "realistic" calendar.

I'm glad someone has highlighted this, because all I ever read is about Apple fans embracing all this cheesiness. But then, them being part of the cult, I suppose one has to oblige.

 

[steviem]

I've been using Windows 8 recently, and the complete lack of skeuomorphism has been a breath of fresh air. Also, it reminds me of how awful Outlook 2011 is...

 

[bluespark]

If the lack of skeuomorphism in designs means that we get more ugly, dull and lifeless applications like iTunes, then keep the skeuomorphism.

Itunes went from having color that was useful to a grey mess that is less friendly to navigate.

It doesn't. Skeuomorphism almost invariably equates to bad design, but the relative lack of skeuomorphism doesn't make for good design. iTunes is a separate problem.

 

[Simplicated]

I think Address Book is the worst offender among the apps. They've completely removed the title bar from the application, which makes recognizing the dragging area much harder.

 

[Anuba]

Well...yeah...but everything you're complaining about can be fixed in literally 10 seconds. If you don't like the bright blue highlights Win7 defaults to, change it to white or grey like I do. Don't like the transparent Aero effect? Turn it off. Think the super pastel neon wallpapers suck? Get another one.

It's true OSX looks better immediately out of the box, but tweaking Windows to look the way you want it to isn't exactly difficult to achieve. Just right-click on the desktop and go to "personalize".

Um, yeah, that's what I do within the first 10 seconds after installing Win7, but personalized colors, new wallpaper and hacking the login screen background only polishes the turd. I'm still stuck with the fixed elements like the insanely thick window borders, the hideous white glow around the window title text (some idiot thought dark text on translucent title bars was a good idea, necessitating an ugly glow effect on it to make it readable), the corny diagonal stripes on the taskbar resulting from a global effect... details like that. You can turn up the brightness of the color theme to get rid of those pesky details, but if you do, the damn taskbar turns bright as well which makes the white text on it unreadable, and that text color can't be changed.

I believe so. It's not officially supported yet, but I think a few people down on the Windows on the Mac forum are running it.

Cool, giving it a try now. If the desktop UI has been fully de-Vistafied, I'm first in line for this one.

 

[Renzatic]

He wasn't so much a designer but a great judge of designs, Apple had always needed the likes of Ives to design and Jobs to decide which designs make it out of the labs. Job certainly good sense of taste and had a knack for knowing, the issue is who will take on Jobs' role of deciding which designs are make. Will one person, maybe Ives, be given his power or will it be sent to committee.

Yeah, I should've said end all be all judge of great design. Besides marketing (which he was the indisputable king thereof), Job's real genius was recognizing the genius in others. He gathered some of the best in the industry around him, and had enough taste to only sign off on the best of their designs.

Mostly, I think Steve was a bit of a bastard, and tends to get recognition for far more than he deserves. But I do give him credit for creating the environment that made Apple as we know it possible (well...the good parts anyway). For that at least, I respect him.

The worry is that Apple may fell they need to replace Jobs judgement with design-by-committee or judge-by-committee.

I think Cook and any future CEO knows that taking the x-by-committee route is the one surefire way to ruin the company. All they have to do is look back at Apple's history and see that it didn't work for them in the past, and it likely won't work for them in the future. Unless the board of directors hire a complete idiot after Cook steps down, I don't think this is a situation anyone will ever have to worry about.

 

[Renzatic]

Um, yeah, that's what I do within the first 10 seconds after installing Win7, but personalized colors, new wallpaper and hacking the login screen background only polishes the turd. I'm still stuck with the fixed elements like the insanely thick window borders, the hideous white glow around the window title text (some idiot thought dark text on translucent title bars was a good idea, necessitating an ugly glow effect on it to make it readable), the corny diagonal stripes on the taskbar resulting from a global effect... details like that. You can turn up the brightness of the color theme to get rid of those pesky details, but if you do, the damn taskbar turns bright as well which makes the white text on it unreadable, and that text color can't be changed.

...actually, you can change the border thickness pretty easily. Personally, I thought the Windows 7 UI was a collection of a bunch of good ideas, along with a few really stupid design decisions that marred things up a bit. Like...yeah...having to use a glow around the text so you could read it, because someone thought it'd be a great idea to throw shiny all over everything.

With Win8, the only thing that's transparent is the taskbar, and it's more a frosted tint, rather than the old bars of light glass effect. The rest uses flat Metro style coloring. Bold colors without any shadows or gradients on anything. It's a lot easier to look at and follow now, but it's a bit on the plain side, since the overall look of the desktop wasn't completely redesigned to take advantage of what works best with Metro.

Cool, giving it a try now. If the desktop UI has been fully de-Vistafied, I'm first in line for this one.

Try to grab the RTM release if you can. The old Release Preview doesn't have the final UI in place, and uses a weird mix of a toned down Aero alongside the new Metroish stuff.

 

[subsonix]

It doesn't. Skeuomorphism almost invariably equates to bad design, but the relative lack of skeuomorphism doesn't make for good design. iTunes is a separate problem.

For the same reason that the lack of it not necessarily leads to bad design, neither does the inclusion of it. It's not binary in nature and is one of many things that can be used, like the color blue.

 

[TC03]

Some skeuomorphisms (I love how everybody here uses this word like they use it every day) are a bit tacky, but the article itself is about functionality vs. design, and I think Apple's not being given the full credit for functionality.

I think the OS X and iOS apps are superior to Windows and Android apps when it comes to functionality. Functionality vs. intuivity is always somewhat of a dilemma, but Apple is able balance those two very well and nails it every time, despite their skeuomorphisms. Apple deserves a lot of credit for this!

Now, for the skeuomorphisms, sometimes it goes a bit too far, and a lot of apps shows very little consistency in between. Voice Recorders, Reminders, Podcasts, Game Center, they all have a very different experience. I don't really know if it's a problem, since these apps offer little functionality and are meant to be fast and to-the-point, they deliver on that.

If it weren't for skeuomorphisms apple:+v, I admit it), customers wouldn't have this warm feeling they have for Apple as they do now. Simple apps like I just mentioned would be degraded to very unthrilling generic apps like you find in the AppStore. Maybe iCal/Calendar is an exception because it's more powerful, but for most apps I don't think skeuomorphisms are a problem.

In conclusion: functionality and intuitivity are the most important factors for a good app and Apple nails that every time. As long as they keep doing that, I don't really mind a tacky skeuomorphism now and then.

Note: my opinion is based mostly on iOS experience, I can agree that skeuomorphisms are a bit harder too fit in properly within the OS X GUI.

 

[subsonix]

He wasn't so much a designer but a great judge of designs, Apple had always needed the likes of Ives to design and Jobs to decide which designs make it out of the labs. Job certainly good sense of taste and had a knack for knowing, the issue is who will take on Jobs' role of deciding which designs are make.

If I recall correctly I think Jobs was the one who came up with the leather look in iCal, according to rumors of course.

 

[Rogifan]

After using it for a few weeks, I just shelled out a few bucks for Downcast, which is far superior in every way (and includes no skeuomorphism).

I love downcast. Great app. And I love the fact it can download my podcasts in the background.

----------

Thinking about it. I'm wondering if most people are "saying they hate the little touches" Simply because Ive doesn't like them. I wonder if everyone would instantly change their tune if Ive had said he really liked it.

And I'm thinking the ones that like it do so because Steve liked it.

 

[RobNYC]

What drives me nuts is changing from month to month in iCal. If forces me to wait for the page to turn. Really annoying when trying to go three months down the road quickly.

Oh god YES. Especially on the iPhone. If you want to skip ahead a few months or even a year it's incredibly tedious to click month by month..You should be able to just swipe your finger across the screen and have the months fly by.

 

[Renzatic]

I think the OS X and iOS apps are superior to Windows and Android apps when it comes to functionality. Functionality vs. intuivity is always somewhat of a dilemma, but Apple is able balance those two very well and nails it every time, despite their skeuomorphisms. Apple deserves a lot of credit for this!

I'll give you a few examples of how Apple's always visible UI and skeuomorphisms (that's a scary damn word) don't necessarily look as good as what you'd get in Metro, and doesn't necessarily offer any more function.

I'll use a cookbook app as an example here. Dunno why. I can't cook for ****. Think I've got a culinary learning disability. But since I was playing around with one in Windows 8, I thought it'd be a good compare/contrast. Specially since the Cook Book app is one of the best uses of Metro I've seen.

First, we'll use some cookbook app on the iPad. Forgot what it's called. I just found the pic on Google.

It's skeuomorphic (still a scary damn word) as hell, and not exactly the prettiest example I could've come up with, but it's still a pretty good example of what I'm trying to go for. Anyone can look at it and say "hey, I know exactly what I need to do because of this and this and this are all right here". It's a little cramped, but it's easy to use.

Same thing with this, which follows the more traditional iPad UI.

You've got that big bar across the top. All the buttons are obvious. It's probably about as easy to use, even with that goofy menu along the left side.

iOS is rooted in more traditional UI designs. We're all pretty familiar with it by now. Skeuomorphism and headers might be a little ugly, but they work, and work well.

But then we have the potential new. Metro...or New Windows UI or whatever.

In Metro, there's really no UI to speak of, and absolutely no skeuomorphism to be found (I'm really getting sick of that word by now). A lot of people say it's very digital, but that's not really true. I once read that it's very much like reading an old magazine, and thought that came pretty close to nailing how Metro feels. It's got similar columns and tabs and all that good stuff, organized all nice and neat. It's easy to follow, and guides the eye.

And UI? There's no static screen that represents what does what like iOS, but it uses symbols and positions to show you what can be manipulated.

Barring those select few with severe brain damage, just about anyone can look at that screen and see which button brings you back to the previous page. It's kinda obvious. You can tell that there are more reviews to see on that column in the right due to how it fades out and extends below the rest of the text there on the bottom right. There are no static headers or set buttons, everything is suggested.

That's what makes Metro so nice in my opinion. You get all the information and functionality you need without anything getting in the way. To me, it's a (potentially) better tablet UI than iOS. Both are easily usable, but Metro flows better, looks better, feels better.

Or at least it does when it's done well.

 

[whoosy]

OSX would look too gray and boring if it only used the standard silver look. I think it's good with more colors on the default apps.

 

[steviem]

I'll give you a few examples of how Apple's always visible UI and skeuomorphisms (that's a scary damn word) don't necessarily look as good as what you'd get in Metro, and doesn't necessarily offer any more function.

I'll use a cookbook app as an example here. Dunno why. I can't cook for ****. Think I've got a culinary learning disability. But since I was playing around with one in Windows 8, I thought it'd be a good compare/contrast. Specially since the Cook Book app is one of the best uses of Metro I've seen.

First, we'll use some cookbook app on the iPad. Forgot what it's called. I just found the pic on Google.

Image

It's skeuomorphic (still a scary damn word) as hell, and not exactly the prettiest example I could've come up with, but it's still a pretty good example of what I'm trying to go for. Anyone can look at it and say "hey, I know exactly what I need to do because of this and this and this are all right here". It's a little cramped, but it's easy to use.

Same thing with this, which follows the more traditional iPad UI.

Image

You've got that big bar across the top. All the buttons are obvious. It's probably about as easy to use, even with that goofy menu along the left side.

iOS is rooted in more traditional UI designs. We're all pretty familiar with it by now. Skeuomorphism and headers might be a little ugly, but they work, and work well.

But then we have the potential new. Metro...or New Windows UI or whatever.

Image

In Metro, there's really no UI to speak of, and absolutely no skeuomorphism to be found (I'm really getting sick of that word by now). A lot of people say it's very digital, but that's not really true. I once read that it's very much like reading an old magazine, and thought that came pretty close to nailing how Metro feels. It's got similar columns and tabs and all that good stuff, organized all nice and neat. It's easy to follow, and guides the eye.

And UI? There's no static screen that represents what does what like iOS, but it uses symbols and positions to show you what can be manipulated.

Image

Barring those select few with severe brain damage, just about anyone can look at that screen and see which button brings you back to the previous page. It's kinda obvious. You can tell that there are more reviews to see on that column in the right due to how it fades out and extends below the rest of the text there on the bottom right. There are no static headers or set buttons, everything is suggested.

That's what makes Metro so nice in my opinion. You get all the information and functionality you need without anything getting in the way. To me, it's a (potentially) better tablet UI than iOS. Both are easily usable, but Metro flows better, looks better, feels better.

Or at least it does when it's done well.

With an Xbox 360 already, I'm so close to doing what was unimaginable for me about 3 weeks ago - getting a Surface and Windows phone 8 whenever they come out.

 

[mrholder]

The Podcast app suffers from this too. Bleh.

I like the "reel to reel" tape animation for the audio podcasts. Thought that was pretty clever. The music or ipod app was the biggest adjustment for me on the ipad. Thought the earlier version was much better looking.

 

[Arran]

Hey the Apple store is down and the yellow post-it note is gone. Have a look: http://store.apple.com/

It begins.

 

[paul8]

It would be interresting to see a poll on this. I'm with Ive. I think the skeuomorphisms are dated and don't belong in OSX. I would prefer a consistent UI that is simple and unadorned.

 

[subsonix]

I'll give you a few examples of how Apple's always visible UI and skeuomorphisms (that's a scary damn word) don't necessarily look as good as what you'd get in Metro, and doesn't necessarily offer any more function.

I'll use a cookbook app as an example here. Dunno why. I can't cook for ****. Think I've got a culinary learning disability. But since I was playing around with one in Windows 8, I thought it'd be a good compare/contrast. Specially since the Cook Book app is one of the best uses of Metro I've seen.

Those are very bad examples because they do not use iOS UI elements, therefor it's more a showcase of the design abilities of these particular developers. You are comparing individual apps made by a 3rd party on two different platforms, you are not comparing the UIs of these platforms per se.

Is it possible to find UIs you don't like on iOS? Yes.
Is it possible to find UIs you don't like on Metro? Yes.

 

[jdawgnoonan]

I really dislike the address book application. It looks like a book which makes me expect it to function like I books. It does not function that way at all. I feel the book like design is a serious flaw when you cannot flip pages.

 

[Frobozz]

There are really good reasons to use this type of interface approach. Sometimes, the joy of a transition or presentation increases a user's engagement with a product. I agree that some of the metaphors become outdated. Look at the CD being phased out of iTunes icon as an example. Icons suffer from this the most, but interfaces can, too. I think the UI designer mentioned is a bit overreaching when he says people won't understand a paper shredder. Agree it could be tacky, but it plays a role that the page flip animation plays in iBooks– the "delight" quotient.

You can make a successful interface with either paradigm, but I don't think physical analogues are tacky. Lots of experts take a strong stake on subjects like this to get notoriety, when the reality is not black and white. It's philosophical and will almost certainly run in cycles. I guarantee you that it will fall out of vogue at some point and all the experts looking to make a name will proudly proclaim it as dated. Look at Apple's own industrial designs since 2000 as an example.

 

[babyj]

That's what makes Metro so nice in my opinion. You get all the information and functionality you need without anything getting in the way. To me, it's a (potentially) better tablet UI than iOS. Both are easily usable, but Metro flows better, looks better, feels better.

The more I use Windows 8 / Metro the more I like it. It feels like they've take Android and iOS, improved it, brought it up to date (and in to the future) then put it on a desktop. Having the same or very similar interface on a tablet and phone is also very, very appealing.

Will be very interesting to see how Apple respond if Metro does take off.