Apple's Director of Machine Learning Resigns Due to Return to Office Work

[4jasontv]

Think of it at a most basic quality of life standpoint. For me as an engineer I have a better setup at home than I ever did at work because it wasn't standard IT hardware. Beyond that, I can cook lunch for me and the fam on my lunch break and eat with them. They know work time means they don't get to come in the office because I need to focus and chat with coworkers. The one exception to this rule is the dog who gets to sleep on my foot which is awesome stress reduction.
Were my company to require me to go back I lose all these things for a marginal (though unproven) gain in team cohesion (although my team is just as horrible and snarky as always, even with the two covid hires, so I think cohesion isn't a problem). There are companies like mine that realize this situation is better for a majority of people. Why wouldn't the seek this out? It isn't for everyone and every job but it works well for many.

My office (not a cubicle, for what it's worth) was 20 degrees too hot in the winter and cold in the summer. Of course, the thermostat is regulated by facilities and I actually got a lecture by someone because I attached magnet vent blockers on the ones blowing directly at me.

 

[KillerTree]

Apple should let the employees leave. Why keep unhappy employees on the payroll?

Why not try and keep your most productive employees happy and working at Apple?

 

[Artemis70]

I wish everyone would admit that working from home is just an excuse to not work as much as they would if they worked at the office. Just admit it.

I'm not sure about you. My work hours have been extended by not having to commute. The commute time has become work time. I may be the odd-ball, as I have always worked more hours than I am being paid for, as I am having so much fun. The extra hours allow me to squeeze in more fun.

 

[I7guy]

Why not try and keep your most productive employees happy and working at Apple?

100%. But apple has to run its business the way they see fit.

 

[4jasontv]

And a huge negative impact on efficiency? Remember CA is an at will employement state.

Absolutely no evidence that working from home has a negative impact on efficiency. In fact, most evidence, including directly asking employees, has a positive impact.

At-will works against Apple here. Given that Apple targets the best employees in their field none of those people are likely worried about finding alternative employment. But, Apple needs to go through the expensive process of finding someone who isn't as qualified or capable to do a job.

Anyone who thinks they aren't good enough to have a say in working from home will be an efficiency loss for Apple.

So yeah, money. It's going to cost a lot of money to replace all the employees with less productive ones.

 

[dysamoria]

These (and many others) represent the humbly heroic blue-collar foundation of American society, without which ******s like Ian in cushy “knowledge” jobs couldn’t survive. Thank you for your recognition and thank you for this comment.

You mean the people who were given no raises or other meaningful support to demonstrate how much they were respected as "heroes"?

This might come as a shock to you, but you can actually support workers in more than one absolutist and limited modality. In fact, supporting worker rights in general is good for everyone. Attacking someone for choosing to leave their "cushy" job is NOT helping the non-cushy people in their struggles with corporate overlords. All you're doing is furthering the rhetoric that says people have a bad work ethic if they decide to negotiate for better conditions.

 

[Kmart9419]

Be careful what you wish for. If you can do the job remotely, then apple or any employer can simply hire remotely, like foreign workers for significantly less costs. I would not be surprised to see a lot of these jobs outsourced.

Jobs that require you to be present is a guarantee against outsourcing. Like a teacher, policeman or nurse, they cannot be replaced.

When the market crash comes, and it will, companies will need to cut costs. Expensive staff is the low hanging fruit. Why pay a programmer 200-300k to work from home when they can probably pay 20-50k for the same work in India?

 

[pshufd]

The losses have only come from withdrawing from Russia. Otherwise it’s been widely reported:

Oil giant BP reports highest profit in 8 years on soaring commodity prices

BP's results come at a time when millions of U.K. households are facing a record-breaking increase in their energy bills amid a cost of living crisis.

www.cnbc.com

Energy prices lift BP profits to 8-year high

BP's profits hit their highest in eight years in 2021, lifted by soaring gas and oil prices, as the company boosted share repurchases and accelerated plans to cut emissions with increased spending on low carbon energy.

www.reuters.com

Note the dates of the above.
Now read the following that was posted 5 days ago and includes the losses from Russia and Ukraine, its doubled its profits over the same quarter from last year! They are raking it in.

BP profits soar as calls for windfall tax grow

The energy giant said underlying income hit $6.2bn due to "exceptional oil and gas trading".

www.bbc.co.uk

Please note I am in no way what so ever a trading or market expert, but us here in the UK are definitely feeling the massive increase in fuel and heating prices, and I do mean massive, whilst BP and Shell are announcing record profits.

A loss is a loss. They had a massive loss in FY 2020 as well of $20 million.

If you lose your house in a fire, it's still a loss. I don't understand why people don't understand finance. Sure, you can throw a caveat that it was due to losses in Russia but they are real losses and they have to try to make back the losses of the past decade. Energy has been the worst performing sector in the S&P 500 for the past decade.

BP and Shell are not announcing record profits.

This is a chart of the Energy Select ETF. It's basically gone nowhere for the past decade.



Here's a chart of Apple in the same period:



There's much more to complain about Apple than oil companies. Those stock prices are even with oil companies borrowing huge amounts of money to pay dividends and do stock buybacks.

 

[4jasontv]

100%. But apple has to run its business the way they see fit.

Gets to, not has to. The difference is they can make this decision because the state has granted them rights. If enough employers mess this up, and labor starts to leave the state then Apple won't get to either.

 

[4jasontv]

If you can do the job remotely, then apple or any employer can simply hire remotely, like foreign workers for significantly less costs.

We already have laws that prevent this.

A loss is a loss. They had a massive loss in FY 2020 as well of $20 million.

If you lose your house in a fire, it's still a loss. I don't understand why people don't understand finance. Sure, you can throw a caveat that it was due to losses in Russia but they are real losses and they have to try to make back the losses of the past decade. Energy has been the worst performing sector in the S&P 500 for the past decade.

BP and Shell are not announcing record profits.

This is a chart of the Energy Select ETF. It's basically gone nowhere for the past decade.



Here's a chart of Apple in the same period:



There's much more to complain about Apple than oil companies. Those stock prices are even with oil companies borrowing huge amounts of money to pay dividends and do stock buybacks.

Please fix the images.

 

[pshufd]

Poor analogy. Every company/job has different requirements. I worked in IT since the mid 60’s. Pay was based on hours worked and had to be recorded daily.
Some jobs are “piece” based. Many are not.
And any jobs that require hands-on can’t be done at home.

I've been salaried since I started working as a developer back in 1979.

I did have hourly jobs but those were when I was in middle-school and high-school.

 

[ofarlig]

Your comment is a prime example of "Wokeness". All about me, me, me. No respect for the guy giving you the cheque and having the business to allow your employment. Good luck with that mentality when your services are no longer required by anyone.

Working is a business arrangement, if you stop providing value your employer won't want to keep you around "out of respect" either. If you have some sort of competence that employers want you make a deal of what it takes to sell that competence to a certain employer, that may include WFH the same way as you would have a minimum salary they have to pay you to work for them.

An employer can choose not to agree to any of these things of course but then they will also not be able to hire the better people with many other options, the same as if they want to pay below market wage.

If my employer ever told me that I'd either have to be in a certain location to do my job or work a set amount of hours per week then I'd most likely just leave for a competitor that gladly would let me do what I want in exchange for what is produced. But the CEO of my company isn't dumb so he would rather let us figure out how to work in exchanged for great numbers to show to the board.

 

[dysamoria]

He calls for “more flexibility”, and yet Apple is only requiring up to 3 days per week in office — flexibility should come from both sides, not just one.

The employer literally holds ALL of the power here. It's kind of weird to accuse the person with only one option at their disposal (to leave) of being inflexible. If he does not want to work ANY days in the office on a regular basis, then that's that. He exercised his only real power: he left.

 

[I7guy]

Absolutely no evidence that working from home has a negative impact on efficiency. In fact, most evidence, including directly asking employees, has a positive impact.

For you?for me? For some anonymous persona you are are representing as a fact?

At-will works against Apple here.

It’s still at will.

Given that Apple targets the best employees in their field none of those people are likely worried about finding alternative employment. But, Apple needs to go through the expensive process of finding someone who isn't as qualified or capable to do a job.

Then I suppose that is what they will do.

Anyone who thinks they aren't good enough to have a say in working from home will be an efficiency loss for Apple.

Apple is still the employer and they make the rules.

So yeah, money. It's going to cost a lot of money to replace all the employees with less productive ones.

Strawman.

 

[4jasontv]

Working is a business arrangement, if you stop providing value your employer won't want to keep you around "out of respect" either. If you have some sort of competence that employers want you make a deal of what it takes to sell that competence to a certain employer, that may include WFH the same way as you would have a minimum salary they have to pay you to work for them.

An employer can choose not to agree to any of these things of course but then they will also not be able to hire the better people with many other options, the same as if they want to pay below market wage.

Exactly. I see workers including work from home as a negotiated benefit. Employers would be foolish to dismiss these people.

 

[pshufd]

The employer literally holds ALL of the power here. It's kind of weird to accuse the person with only one option at their disposal (to leave) of being inflexible. If he does not want to work ANY days in the office on a regular basis, then that's that. He exercised his only real power: he left.

There were a bunch of big tech companies looking to hire Jim Gray back in the 1990s. Microsoft won out but Gray wanted to live in San Francisco, not Seattle. So Microsoft gave him a lab in San Francisco to do his research work. Rockstars often get different treatment. I bet the Patriots regret letting Tom Brady go.

 

[dysamoria]

No, I said people like him, which surely would include at least one person involved in high-level Siri development given the trend and prevalence of this sort of complaint.

I’m sorry basic reading comprehension is so difficult

Basic reading comprehension allows for noticing the implication you made. Maybe you didn't intend it to be explicit, but your language certainly implied it to more than one reader. You're being challenged on it and resorting to technicalities to evade the critique.

 

[pshufd]

Be careful what you wish for. If you can do the job remotely, then apple or any employer can simply hire remotely, like foreign workers for significantly less costs. I would not be surprised to see a lot of these jobs outsourced.

Jobs that require you to be present is a guarantee against outsourcing. Like a teacher, policeman or nurse, they cannot be replaced.

When the market crash comes, and it will, companies will need to cut costs. Expensive staff is the low hanging fruit. Why pay a programmer 200-300k to work from home when they can probably pay 20-50k for the same work in India?

Try that with Lockheed, BAE, General Dynamics, etc.

 

[w5jck]

Absolutely no reason for anyone to work in the office. Zoom/Teams is perfectly fine, and likely more efficient than being in an office. I mean, you at least save the hour or 2 you waste commuting every day.

Total BS and naive. Apple is a prime example of why people can't get much done, and what they do is inferior, when working from home. With all the distractions from SO, kids, pets, neighbors, radio, TV, hot-tub, swimming pool, et cetera, they have shown they can't get quality work done. Every OS from Apple now blows chunks because of the crappy job they have done from home, as well as from bad management. The Apple employees had their chance to prove they could work from home and turn out high quality work in quantity, but they failed. They failed in a major way. They embarrassed themselves they failed so bad! They have no case to make for staying at home. I say let them stay home WITHOUT pay, otherwise get their butts back to the office.

 

[dysamoria]

[...]

I also like remote work, but this environment of empowered workers will not last. Companies will always readjust to swing employment conditions back in their favor. The pandemic caught them off guard and they are still figuring out how to take advantage of the situation--but they will.

Yeah [sigh] I have been thinking the same. The only way it will stick is if the finance people convince the executives that it's actually financially BETTER for the company to adapt to a new model that consists primarily of remote work, and NOT building/renting office spaces and making their workers deal with the associated nonsense of a daily workplace attendance requirement.

 

[gdeputy]

COVID was the catalyst.. but make no mistake about it, for knowledge workers?? Yeah, most folks are going to prefer remote.

I've been remote first for 4 years now and my productivity has never been higher. My impact has never been greater. My salary has never been higher. My personal time has never been more flexible.

This will continue to happen unless apple either increases pay SIGNIFICANTLY or adopts remote-first.

I get it, sucks to have spent a few bn on an office and leave it empty. Ask the folks who doubled down on railroads and horses how that went where there was a paradigm shift

 

[4jasontv]

For you?for me? For some anonymous persona you are are representing as a fact?

Based on published scientific research already discussed here in this thread, and the fact that no research has shown that office work is more productive.

It’s still at will.

Yes. This means employees can leave whenever they want.

Then I suppose that is what they will do.

Apple is still the employer and they make the rules.

Apple can't make all the rules. This statement isn't up for discussion.

So yeah, money. It's going to cost a lot of money to replace all the employees with less productive ones.

Strawman.

No. Not strawman. Fact: It is expensive to replace workers. Logic: if you already hire the most productive workers and they leave then the most productive workers are not applying for your open positions.

 

[dysamoria]

It’s bitterness cos they can’t flip Big Macs from home.

Hey, there's no need to throw fast food workers under the bus just to snark on these bitter commentators...

 

[pshufd]

Working is a business arrangement, if you stop providing value your employer won't want to keep you around "out of respect" either. If you have some sort of competence that employers want you make a deal of what it takes to sell that competence to a certain employer, that may include WFH the same way as you would have a minimum salary they have to pay you to work for them.

An employer can choose not to agree to any of these things of course but then they will also not be able to hire the better people with many other options, the same as if they want to pay below market wage.

If my employer ever told me that I'd either have to be in a certain location to do my job or work a set amount of hours per week then I'd most likely just leave for a competitor that gladly would let me do what I want in exchange for what is produced. But the CEO of my company isn't dumb so he would rather let us figure out how to work in exchanged for great numbers to show to the board.

We got bought out in 1994 and were moving out of our office building. Management considered moving the office to a neighboring state where the income tax rate was 5% higher. They surveyed employees and many would leave over the longer commute, and increased taxes. So they built a building near the old workplace and everyone was happy. Construction took 18 months and cost a ton of money but management wanted happy employees.

Retention was very important to the buyout and there were metrics on key people staying on for a period of time to make the deal go through. There were lots of financial incentives to keep people. Companies always say that their people are their biggest assets. Well, prove it.

 

[I7guy]

Gets to, not has to. The difference is they can make this decision because the state has granted them rights. If enough employers mess this up, and labor starts to leave the state then Apple won't get to either.

Yes. Apple is entitled to run their business as they see fit. Whatever that translates to in terms of worker benefits). again being an at will employment state means the employer and employee get to decide their futures.