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Would you expect taxpayers to pay Apple to make the service free? Would you expect the government to force Apple to make it free on Apple’s own dime? People toss the word ‘free’ around pretty loosely. Somebody has to pay.

And that's what many will never get, as they feel entitled to get "free stuff" whenever possible.

It's almost as if it's a badge of honor figuring out ways to make that happen - where "others" pay.
 
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For the sake of better odds it could even be a disclaimer that by using this feature you automatically consent to being charged this membership price. Of course this way — who's going to pay for it up front, when they can hope to get away without needing to use it?
I still find this ghoulish but it is significantly better than refusing to put the emergency message through at all. They better go this route if they don’t scrap charging for it.
 
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As I understand it, clouds and smoke do not generally impede this signal.

The system will only improve over time if there is money being spent on the system. Apple has committed to half a billion dollars over the next five years. But I'm certain they can only do that if they monetize the system.

This is the part the "it should be free!" crowd simply does not understand.

Heavy smoke does interfere with sat signals. Even wildfires themselves affect sat signals, due to heat. I remember watching a doc about wildfires.
 
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Not true, any phone that can connect to a tower can call 911, active service or not. That was what, a while ago, enabled theses "emergency call phones" that could "call 911, no subscription needed" and preyed on people who didn't know any phone could do that.
Quick googling
"The FCC has regulations to ensure that 911 calls are accepted by all providers, even if you don't have a phone plan. This feature was introduced back when GSM standards were created in the 1990s. You can make an emergency call with no service, as long as there is a cell phone tower nearby, and you're using a local SIM."

My question is "who is the provider?". I will believe that it works. I just don't know who is accepting and passing the call to 911. Going to assume it was the last provider for that device. So if you stopped paying for a plan, and left the phone in you desk draw. Charged it up one day way after canceling the plan on it. And made a 911 call. It would just work via the last provider for the device. Or if you're not able to connect to that provider anymore (in a given area). The next available cell tower for another provider will accept the call and pass it through.
 

A tidbit about the fire department.

If you want the service then pay for it. Should apple also give away the iPhone 14 for free? This service is not government funded. Apple is not a charity. You can be sure after the two years, if a subscription is required I’m going to pay.
Well F me, I'm lost for arguments if this type of s—t happens. I'm done! :)
 
Not true in US. You do not need a cell plan to call 911. Any old phone can call 911 even without a cell service provider.
Just read that. I'm still wondering how it works. Like if your previous carrier is going to process your call. Or if your carrier isn't available on that tower. Which carrier passes along the call.
 
I still find this ghoulish but it is significantly better than refusing to put the emergency message through at all. They better go this route if they don’t scrap charging for it.
I completely agree. I'm sure Apple will figure something out in the 1+ year they have left on this.
 
I can only speak for Germany. Here you can call the emergency services with any cellphone without even having a SIM card. Phones without a SIM card even display "Only emergency calls".
Whom in Germany will service the call? How is it getting routed to emergency services?
Thanks!
 
Now everyone, gather round, let’s all just form a big circle ⭕️, hold hands, and sing kumbaya, and give thanks that we have the technology to rescue people nowadays.

We know it isn’t “free”, we also would like to point out that the cost of a rescue is likely far cheaper than the cost to society when lives are lost.
 
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I think the right move for Apple once the two years of free use is up would be to make it a fee-per-use feature. For instance, it could be set up to bill your Apple account automatically for $5/message if/when you use it. Or whatever the necessary cost would be in order to break even on the overhead required for the service. They would just need to make it very public that they are charging an amount that allows the service to pay for itself and no more.
 
Totally agree. Also interested to see how they navigate.

It’s an opportunity to do the right thing and add it to the experience of an iPhone (differentiator). Maybe it’s a Pro-only feature. But directly charging for it, at this point, would not be a good look for the $3T company. But doing so is partly how they got to the Ts. So… Stay tuned. 🤪

Maybe I’m oversimplifying it but I thought they got the T’s because they and Jobs especially relentlessly pursued the user experience above all else, did things nobody else could do (like get at&t to sell a crapware-free phone) and let the money naturally follow. Charge a premium for an experience that was clearly better.

Now it seems that philosophy is slipping away and the user experience is secondary to the business objectives.
 
I wonder how the satellite service is set. If it also carries calls, just not on the iPhone, expanding the current FCC requirement that all phones that can get a signal, even if they have no active service, can dial 911 would mean simply extending that to satellite service providers would be within FCC or Congress to mandate free connection.



Yea, bundling with AppleCare+ would be one way, or simply include it for free with everyone iPhone and raise the price to cover anticipated costs. The can see what price hike that best covers the costs based on ownership duration. They could even spread the costs globally to lessen the price hit.



IIRC the US does not have a blanket duty to assist law.



Not true, any phone that can connect to a tower can call 911, active service or not. That was what, a while ago, enabled theses "emergency call phones" that could "call 911, no subscription needed" and preyed on people who didn't know any phone could do that.



Same in the US. If you transfer service on an iPhone the old one displays the signal strength and SOS above it.



Calling 911 is easy, the infrastructure behind it is complex. It's a good model but expanding it to include satellite texts would not be that easy.



Apple has a lot of data on iPhone retention times and surely can get a good idea of how much to add to the costs of an iPhone to not lose money on providing the service for "free."



Anyone with a phone pays an e911 fee as part of the bill, subsidizing anyone without service; which is good.



Not necessarily as if you can get cell service, the satellite option is not there. People aren't suddenly going to use the satellite and the % that are out of tower connectivity and have a real emergency is likely not to be that big even if everyone has a satellite capable phone.

The real challenge, IMHO, is a situation where 911 gets overloaded and you wind up on hold. Having a way for the phone to recognize that and switch to satellite, or simply allow texting to 911 via cellular in such situations, could be a useful feature.

Just with regard to the duty to assist thing, you could still be sued for / charged with criminal negligence or similar if you could have done something but didn’t and someone died.
 
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Maybe I’m oversimplifying it but I thought they got the T’s because they and Jobs especially relentlessly pursued the user experience above all else, did things nobody else could do (like get at&t to sell a crapware-free phone) and let the money naturally follow. Charge a premium for an experience that was clearly better.

Now it seems that philosophy is slipping away and the user experience is secondary to the business objectives.

I'm a human. I have a soul. That philosophy is what saw a young college art student buy into Apple in the 90s. In the end, I'm not sure that played much of an actual role in Apple joining the T party. From my perspective (which is also oversimplifying), that evolution is much less about Apple and almost entirely about The System - which, unfortunately, is working exactly as designed (stupid shareholders). Capitalism blows.
 
I'm a human. I have a soul. That philosophy is what saw a young college art student buy into Apple in the 90s. In the end, I'm not sure that played much of an actual role in Apple joining the T party. From my perspective (which is also oversimplifying), that evolution is much less about Apple and almost entirely about The System - which, unfortunately, is working exactly as designed (stupid shareholders). Capitalism blows.
Maybe the pharma companies could get the ball rolling by making their drugs available free of charge for the asking.
 
Maybe I'm naive to the way life works, but I find it dubious that anyone, anywhere, could just be leisurely cruising down a highway and have wildfires "suddenly erupt" around them.
 
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Here's the funny twist on this conversation...if Apple offered this service for Free, and put other companies out of business, like Garmin, etc...then the same people saying it should be free would be yelling about Apple's anticompetitive behavior ;)

Garmin has a following that rivals Apple..not in size, but in loyalty. Apple won't put them out of business. I'm still a HUGE fan of Garmin, and still wish my watch did several things my previous Garmin's world to.
 
And the "just fold it into the cost of the phone" is not an argument that it should be free. That is not "free." But, as I've pointed out previously, the number of phones that exist over time that would then need to be accounted for in the system is on a scale of magnitudes greater than the current infrastructure could reasonably handle.

Nothing is free - you pay for it somehow. Apple may decide to cover teh cost without raising prices, but then you pay for it in not getting a lower prices with an option to by the service separately.

Someone has to pay the bills, so it can't be indefinite. After the 2 year included with a new phone, it could prompt the user to sign up for a 1 year membership when they attempt to use the emergency feature. Denying someone whose life is in danger access to available help would be like one phone company denying access to another's nearby tower for an SOS call that could save a life just because they're not a subscriber to their plan. As long as it's not extortion pricing, I think that a "By using this feature you agree to a 1 year Emergency Satellite" plan is perfectly reasonable.

Or, offer a membership for $X or single calls at some multiple of X.

Quick googling
"The FCC has regulations to ensure that 911 calls are accepted by all providers, even if you don't have a phone plan. This feature was introduced back when GSM standards were created in the 1990s. You can make an emergency call with no service, as long as there is a cell phone tower nearby, and you're using a local SIM."

Right, the key is all providers.

My question is "who is the provider?". I will believe that it works. I just don't know who is accepting and passing the call to 911. Going to assume it was the last provider for that device. So if you stopped paying for a plan, and left the phone in you desk draw. Charged it up one day way after canceling the plan on it. And made a 911 call. It would just work via the last provider for the device. Or if you're not able to connect to that provider anymore (in a given area). The next available cell tower for another provider will accept the call and pass it through.

IIRC, it is irrelevant whose antenna you connect to, as long as you can get a signal. Ho your original provider was is irrelevant.

Just with regard to the duty to assist thing, you could still be sued for / charged with criminal negligence or similar if you could have done something but didn’t and someone died.

You can be sued for anything, but in general you have no duty to assist and thus there is no negligence or civil liability, unless you fall into a special category or started to help and thus must finish. Of course, as with anything, there are cases where a court has decided someone's behavior was so outrageous they have found some liable and some states may have laws covering when assistance is required; which is often just calling for assistance.
 
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Maybe I'm naive to the way life works, but I find it dubious that anyone, anywhere, could just be leisurely cruising down a highway and have wildfires "suddenly erupt" around them.
Wild fires can travel very fast. Especially short-grass fires. And the wind can change quickly. What may seem like a safe road one minute can be ablaze the next.
 
Maybe I'm naive to the way life works, but I find it dubious that anyone, anywhere, could just be leisurely cruising down a highway and have wildfires "suddenly erupt" around them.

I don’t know where you live, people in the western part of North America, Australia, Greece, or southwestern Europe know when fuels are bone dry and there’s wind, fires can spread as fast as the wind blows. And when these fires get large enough they can produce their own winds, so if the wind is gusting 60mph, it can be even faster where the wall of flames is being pushed.

Reports have said the wind was gusting up to 70-80mph in Maui that day, you can see it in videos before the fire broke out. There were tree limbs down, and even damage to the buildings in Lahaina just from the winds (having lived there that’s something I’d never seen before). So try to imagine a wall of flame and embers coming at you as fast a car speeding down a highway at 80mph. How fast can a car cover a quarter mile at that speed? This is why these fires are so deadly around the world, people literally only have seconds to escape sometimes. Checkout this video to see how fast this fire was moving in Texas, where the winds weren’t near as strong as they were in Hawaii, and can be here in California.

 
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