Apple's Evidence in Samsung Tablet Case Reportedly Flawed

[jettredmont]

Absolutely.



And they conveniently removed the Samsung-logo at the front from these pictures, too

Making mistakes (using the wrong aspect-ratio of images etc.) is one thing, but photoshopping pictures to fool a judge is a whole different ballgame.

Edit:
Also, it doesn't matter if a unreleased prototype looked like the iPad, it's only important what version lands on the retail-shelves.

OMG!!!

Samsung is in on the Samsung-logo-photoshopping conspiracy too! http://www.samsung.com/global/microsite/galaxytab/10.1v/index.html



Sheesh. Take off your tinfoil hat. You are comparing the original Galaxy (gray bezel, big Samsung logo) instead of the 10.1.

 

[kdarling]

Probably not. Cause as you know Apple basically designed the iPad first then put that on halt to release the iPhone.

Jobs only said that the touch UI idea came from a tablet demo. We already know that iOS came after the iPhone project started and the hardware wasn't even designed. So the current iPad certainly wasn't done first.

However, yes the evidence makes it seem very likely that Apple and Samsung had independently came up with basically the same frontal design at different times.

If so, what does that tell us about that design's uniqueness?

 

[iHEARTcartoons]

- Is it gnat [bleep] or pepper?
- Who cares, pass the Tabasco.

 

[jettredmont]

http://www.amazon.de/Samsung-Touchscreen-Android-interner-Speicher/dp/B00512GSBC/
http://www.samsung.de/de/Privatkunden/Mobil/Tablets/samsunggalaxytab/GT-P1000CWADBT/detail.aspx
http://www.samsung.com/nl/consumer/...AXEN/index.idx?pagetype=prd_detail&returnurl=
http://www.samsung.com/nl/consumer/...DPHN/index.idx?pagetype=prd_detail&returnurl=

Go to the Amazon link and look at the image where it is shown in a hand. No logo.

Logos like this are often region-specific. Obviously the copy presented to the court (you do realize that the judge also has the physical devices to compare, right?) didn't have the Samsung silver logo on its front, just like what appears in all of Samsung's marketing materials.

 

[slrandall]

Wow, this is really not that big a deal. Ultimately, the ruling on something as mundane as the dimensions of the device in question would actually compare the real devices side-by-side.

Yes, Apple probably used the most convenient photo for their case. Who cares? This one piece of evidence cannot have been that significant.

Just put the devices on table together and measure them. Good grief. There's no need to defend either side. Apple stretched the truth. I'm sure they will again, as will everyone else. After all, they are playing for high stakes.

 

[jettredmont]

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1210629/

Sorry, buyer (and designer) beware. There are many, many more examples. Yes, there are Western exceptions, but China at least, clearly has a problem with this sort of thing.

If you judged the US based on Tijuana rip-offs, you'd call us copycats too. Stop with the stereotyping and slander; stick to the facts.

 

[lilo777]

Wow, this is really not that big a deal. Ultimately, the ruling on something as mundane as the dimensions of the device in question would actually compare the real devices side-by-side.

Yes, Apple probably used the most convenient photo for their case. Who cares? This one piece of evidence cannot have been that significant.

Just put the devices on table together and measure them. Good grief. There's no need to defend either side. Apple stretched the truth. I'm sure they will again, as will everyone else. After all, they are playing for high stakes.

Samsung?

 

[MH01]

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1210629/

Sorry, buyer (and designer) beware. There are many, many more examples. Yes, there are Western exceptions, but China at least, clearly has a problem with this sort of thing.

Nope, your the one with a problem with it. Asia is a big place mate, with varying cultures, try not to stereotype too much while u preach the virtues of Apple.... Maybe ur pointy hat and robes are a little tight ...

 

[chrono1081]

Well, Apple certainly photoshopped images when it introduced the iPad, to imply that it can show the Flash content on the NYT page. This is basically the same type of shenanigans.

The whole thing is ridiculous, though: Yes, the two devices have a similar shape and a similar black bezel. But if this was the criteria, TV set manufacturers would be perpetually in court, as would AV receiver manufacturers and even car companies.

The functionality of the device demands certain similarities in design. Apple is simply trying to use the courts to prevent others from competing. The same way they do it with their patent trolling.

Actually there was a custom built version of the NYTimes if I remember correctly, not to mention they redid the ad showing the blank spots where flash plugins would normally have been instead of finding a site that didn't use flash. Many companies would not have done that.

Also did anyone notice the print on the picture, it said it was comparing aspect ratios not actual dimensions. I really think this thing is a non-issue seeing how as Samsung has not made a peep about it, only a dutch newspaper. I think there is more to this than anyone knows.

 

[Rodimus Prime]

Actually there was a custom built version of the NYTimes if I remember correctly, not to mention they redid the ad showing the blank spots where flash plugins would normally have been instead of finding a site that didn't use flash. Many companies would not have done that.

Also did anyone notice the print on the picture, it said it was comparing aspect ratios not actual dimensions. I really think this thing is a non-issue seeing how as Samsung has not made a peep about it, only a dutch newspaper. I think there is more to this than anyone knows.

Lets face it Apple only went back and fixed it because they got caught big time trying to pull the wool over everyone's eyes. If they had not been caught doing it they would of never bothered. They tried and got caught doing it.

 

[apolloa]

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1210629/

Sorry, buyer (and designer) beware. There are many, many more examples. Yes, there are Western exceptions, but China at least, clearly has a problem with this sort of thing.

Hmm, right, Apple NEVER stole from Xerox then, right?......
Or do you want me to post links indicating the gun crime and drug problems America has. Because it then has a bearing on Apple and the type of company it is because that is what you are stating about Samsung.

You are beginning to come across as a nationalist...........

No, I shall use YOUR path of thinking, Apple is the bullying company that it is that wants to destroy all it's competitors and win at ALL costs because that's what America is like. Look at the way it is a massive war mongering machine, thinks nothing of invading any country it so chooses for it's own gain to be number one, will drop nuclear weapons on civilians to gain to be number one and kill both allies and enemy alike. So that is why Apple is the way Apple is then.

Personally, I think what I said there is an utterly stupid and ridiculous suggestion to make, but according to YOUR way of thinking and argument then it MUST be true

 

[wovel]

http://www.amazon.de/Samsung-Touchscreen-Android-interner-Speicher/dp/B00512GSBC/
http://www.samsung.de/de/Privatkunden/Mobil/Tablets/samsunggalaxytab/GT-P1000CWADBT/detail.aspx
http://www.samsung.com/nl/consumer/...AXEN/index.idx?pagetype=prd_detail&returnurl=
http://www.samsung.com/nl/consumer/...DPHN/index.idx?pagetype=prd_detail&returnurl=

I will just respond with the link I provided: http://www.samsung.com/us/mobile/galaxy-tab

Why should we assume Apple photo shopped the images when it appears Samsung does not know if the items have a samsung logo?

----------

Samsung?

If Samsung's attempts to reverse this focus on that picture, they will be unsuccessful... They have very little to do with the complaint.

----------

Hmm, right, Apple NEVER stole from Xerox then, right?......
Or do you want me to post links indicating the gun crime and drug problems America has. Because it then has a bearing on Apple and the type of company it is because that is what you are stating about Samsung.

You are beginning to come across as a nationalist...........

No, I shall use YOUR path of thinking, Apple is the bullying company that it is that wants to destroy all it's competitors and win at ALL costs because that's what America is like. Look at the way it is a massive war mongering machine, thinks nothing of invading any country it so chooses for it's own gain to be number one, will drop nuclear weapons on civilians to gain to be number one and kill both allies and enemy alike. So that is why Apple is the way Apple is then.

Personally, I think what I said there is an utterly stupid and ridiculous suggestion to make, but according to YOUR way of thinking it must be true

I would never insult your intelligence by suggesting there is even a remote possibility that you think the dispute between Apple and Xerox is in anyway similar to the Apple store copies.

I am not sure your depiction of America is totally off-base, but I do not believe it applies to Apple. They are so far from a win at any cost company, it is absurd to make that comparison.

 

[apolloa]

I would never insult your intelligence by suggesting there is even a remote possibility that you think the dispute between Apple and Xerox is in anyway similar to the Apple store copies.

Nope, but you have more intelligence and common sense then LTD. I'm just using the same stupid way of thinking as he/ she is.....

 

[MacNewsFix]

The haters are out in force today.

I love how they jumped on this article like a fat kid at an all-you-can-eat buffet.

Curious, did anyone actually read the article?

This requirement is the same in Germany, confirms Florian Müller, a German intellectual property consultant. He reckons the flawed visual evidence could have serious consequences for the case, "provided that any differences between the product shown in Apple's complaint and the actual product are outcome-determinative," says Müller.

He doubts that Apple's lawyers attempted to mislead the court. Müller argues the picture in the German complaint could be of a pre-release prototype, which showed up during discovery procedures in Apple's case against Samsung in the U.S. last April.

For those unfamiliar with Florian Müller, he is a noted intellectual property consultant and open source advocate.

Apple hired Freshfields Bruckhaus Deringer to represent them in the Netherlands case. It is a large, global firm (27 offices). Odds are research and document compiling was handed off to an intern/law student, and an earlier version of the Galaxy 10.1 was submitted by accident and slipped past the attorneys.

Embarrassing? Yes. Possibly harmful to Apple's case? Very much so. Enough to accuse Apple of duplicity? Hardly.

 

[wovel]

Nope, but you have more intelligence and common sense then LTD. I'm just using the same stupid way of thinking as he/ she is.....

I think he is trying to make a point (although I kind of forgot what it was). I try to avoid the Asia bashing that goes on here from time to time. I don't mind bashing the Europeans though, they regularly attack us (and none of them seems to grasp that their higher cost of living makes things cost more )

 

[ssk2]

I love how they jumped on this article like a fat kid at an all-you-can-eat buffet.

Curious, did anyone actually read the article?

This requirement is the same in Germany, confirms Florian Müller, a German intellectual property consultant. He reckons the flawed visual evidence could have serious consequences for the case, "provided that any differences between the product shown in Apple's complaint and the actual product are outcome-determinative," says Müller.

He doubts that Apple's lawyers attempted to mislead the court. Müller argues the picture in the German complaint could be of a pre-release prototype, which showed up during discovery procedures in Apple's case against Samsung in the U.S. last April.

For those unfamiliar with Florian Müller, he is a noted intellectual property consultant and open source advocate.

Apple hired Freshfields Bruckhaus Deringer to represent them in the Netherlands case. It is a large, global firm (27 offices). Odds are research and document compiling was handed off to an intern/law student, and an earlier version of the Galaxy 10.1 was submitted by accident and slipped past the attorneys.

Embarrassing? Yes. Possibly harmful to Apple's case? Very much so. Enough to accuse Apple of duplicity? Hardly.

The point you've bolded IS highly relevant and I commend you for pointing this out.

As a lawyer, this mistake (if it is that), would be hugely embarrassing. Errors like that should be pointed out and grabbed before filing. A judge will not look favourably on that kind of error.

HOWEVER!

If this is an honest mistake (which I'm inclined to believe for now), then the judge will not be ordering harsh punitive damages on Apple. Yes, the case may be thrown out and Apple may be ordered to re-file (if they wish) and pay Samsung's costs for the hearing, but this isn't going to lead to massive repercussions (right now at least!)

EDIT: the fact that a junior lawyer did the filing (they won't let interns do the filing, trust me...) at Freshfields is of little consequence, they are still accountable for the firm and for Apple.

 

[apolloa]

I think he is trying to make a point (although I kind of forgot what it was). I try to avoid the Asia bashing that goes on here from time to time. I don't mind bashing the Europeans though, they regularly attack us (and none of them seems to grasp that their higher cost of living makes things cost more )

He was trying to state that Samsung have apparently copied Apple due to how much counterfeiting and copying goes on in it's country. Hence my counter argument about why Apple is like Apple based on what the American culture is like. It's just as stupid but it's made my point.

 

[Winni]

I looked at the document, it's in German.
I can't read German, and I doubt anyone here can..

I can, German is my mothertongue. I've posted about this before; Apple's paper is one of the worst legal files that I have ever read. It reads like a fanboy article, not like something written by a legal professional. Besides that, their chances are minimal to get anywhere with this on Aug 25. You don't need to have real evidence to get an injunction, but you better have a real case when you go to court - Apple doesn't. Nobody would mistake the GalaxyTab for an iPad. End of story.

 

[Mike1213]

This must be a joke

Is everyone, including the writer, so gullible that you really think this case is being decided on an anamorphically scaled photograph? Do you really think Samsung and their lawyers are so stupid as to have missed this point in court? If they didn't respond to the picture it was because that picture wasn't germane to the issue of the case.

Samsung is loosing their business with Apple over this so they can sell tablets. Potentially this is a 80 to 100 billion a year business. And everyone here seems to think Samsung carelessly made a mistake by accepting Apples picture unchallenged? I doubt the picture was anything more than to save the trouble of passing the real tablets around.

 

[Illumination]

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1210629/

Sorry, buyer (and designer) beware. There are many, many more examples. Yes, there are Western exceptions, but China at least, clearly has a problem with this sort of thing.

You, my friend, are completely delusional. Your posts in this thread (and others, as well) have no regard for anything without an "i" or "Mac" in front of it. You cannot stereotype a country because of shady companies in it. Here in the Western hemisphere, we have our fair share of shady companies too. Even supposedly good companies (*cough* Apple *cough*) are in it for the money and treat everyone like idiots to get what they want. Not only that, the constant stereotyping of Asians (not just you, many others as well) is against the rules of MacRumors, and I'm baffled that nothing is being done about it.

 

[wovel]

He was trying to state that Samsung have apparently copied Apple due to how much counterfeiting and copying goes on in it's country. Hence my counter argument about why Apple is like Apple based on what the American culture is like. It's just as stupid but it's made my point.

Ok. Well I disagree with him. I think Samsung copied Apple because they are simply at a loss for what to do about the iPad (or iAnything really). I also think Samsung copies Apple because it is fairly easy for them to anticipate the design of Apple products. I doubt Samsung would copy Apple any less if they were based in Europe or North America.

How could anyone rate this post down. It is brilliant. Maybe they actually believe the Galaxy S and Galaxy Tab are original designs by Samsung.. Oh well, some people will believe anything.

 

[smali]

@LTD

Not sure why you have to be so offensive towards a whole race of people to make your point.

We all know you would give your life to protect Apple's interests but you kind of take it way too far.

 

[Mike1213]

I can, German is my mothertongue. I've posted about this before; Apple's paper is one of the worst legal files that I have ever read. It reads like a fanboy article, not like something written by a legal professional. Besides that, their chances are minimal to get anywhere with this on Aug 25. You don't need to have real evidence to get an injunction, but you better have a real case when you go to court - Apple doesn't. Nobody would mistake the GalaxyTab for an iPad. End of story.

Great now show me your EU law degree. All I can say for the other side is the judge sided with Apple regarding two points. All you can say is Apple wrote a very stupid brief. I respect your opinion no more than you respect mine. Neither of us have any true knowledge in this area.

 

[*LTD*]

No. I work as a Chef in a Mongolian Restaurant and it certainly is not shoddy.

Descent . . . as in, descendants. As in, ancestry.

I'm not sure what shoddy has to do with any of this.

 

[GermanyChris]

good, i hope they get charged a big fine (not that it will hurt them in anyway) but the press will sure use it to make fun of apple which is great to bring them down from their high horse as of late

btw a huge german chain (like best buy) is selling the tab anyway

Image

I saw the same thing in Media Markt Sindelfingen so being the smart ass I am I asked how they are allowed to sell them, and her said that they can't, they have them and are taking rain checks but can't actually let someone leave the store with them..