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All iPads Apple's expensive iPad Mini mistake
- Thread starter blergh!
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I find myself chuckling at the people who pit Google and Apple against one another. Each intends to reach as many customers as possible, but for different reasons. Apple wants a customer base and ecosystem to sell hardware, to sell a lifestyle so to speak. Google sells hardware and gives away software so that their customer base grows, except they want to collect information. Information of any and every type that they can then mine for any purpose that they choose. The fact that my university is seen as a farm for talent in machine learning to the extent that they have offices on campus tells one enough; they make their money off of advertising and off of collecting information and ideas. Just what is the tradeoff for low-cost hardware worth to you?
Great, because of your signature, I now feel sad at the thought of deleting an app icon.
Poor apps...
This is an interesting observation. Having watched Apple eat Sony's dust in consumer electronics for entertainment ( ipod ), then, eat Sony's dust in laptops and tablets... I really l know what you mean. Keeping in mind that I've reported on Apple since my first decent computer, the 128K
The entrance of Google and Samsung into hallowed Apple market space is scary. Sure, Apple HW and software and in most case, Apps are superior, but the MASS consumption market has started to migrate away from both MS and Apple. Apple knows this, but they are NOT responding quickly enough.
That's critical because , as in my case, I am currently 100% Apple BUT cannot justify the .60" extra width of the iPad Mini
So it's off to Nexus 7 land for now for my first NON Apple toy in decades.
In this fast moving second decade of the New Millennium, one or two slip ups and 'ouch' market share and stock devaluation hit!
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I don't think the price point is a major mistake by itself
What I think is a huge mistake is Apple is breaking all the traditions Steve put in place. Adding quantity releasing product in a rapid pace instead of quality in a steady pace. Apple seems to be opening its wing too wide, risk of lowering their quality and canabalizing own products.
The other broken tradition was price point affordability. I have no doubt that even if Apple increase its price by $100-200 they will just sell almost as many and make a lot more profit in the short term. But Apple have always kept a fix pricing regardless of demand, this is what makes their brand so desirable - it is affordable luxury. Turning away from this and move towards the traditional supply/demand pricing model, will be like buring fossil fuel. The brand loyalty will eventually run out, not in the short run, but over a period of time.
What I think is a huge mistake is Apple is breaking all the traditions Steve put in place. Adding quantity releasing product in a rapid pace instead of quality in a steady pace. Apple seems to be opening its wing too wide, risk of lowering their quality and canabalizing own products.
The other broken tradition was price point affordability. I have no doubt that even if Apple increase its price by $100-200 they will just sell almost as many and make a lot more profit in the short term. But Apple have always kept a fix pricing regardless of demand, this is what makes their brand so desirable - it is affordable luxury. Turning away from this and move towards the traditional supply/demand pricing model, will be like buring fossil fuel. The brand loyalty will eventually run out, not in the short run, but over a period of time.
does anybody remember what the first iPhone sold for? $500 and there was no subsidy. The price strategy is exactly the same as it has always been. The first generation of a new product is sold at a premium, and they will still manage to sell every one they make, and from there the price only goes down and the sales only go up.
Heh heh, anyone with an iota of common sense will look at the data before making the assertion that it is an Apple marketing strategy. Ipad 3 sold 3 m units in the first weekend and they run out of supply after the first weekend. Iphone 5 sold 5m unit in the first weekend and also run out of supply. why don't you wait until Apple announce how many Ipad mini they sell this weekend before making the accusation. Remember Google never talk about how many Nexus 7 they sold and Amazon never ever talk about how many Kindle Fire HD they sold. And Apple break out their number every quarter. Asus (maker of Nexus 7) disclosed that they sold 2.3M unit of Nexus 7 in 3 months. So Ipad 3 sell more unit in one weekend than Nexus 7 in 3 months. And Ipad 3 is 500 and up while Nexus 7 is 200 and up. And Apple sold 14M ipad in 3Q12 while Nexus 7 sold about 2.3M in the same time. I would say Ipad 3 sales spanks Nexus 7. what will you say?
Just because you like Android does not make other fool.. Some people like steak and can afford steak. Some people like hamburger. But it is stupid for someone who like hamburger calling those who like steak a fool. If I make enough money, I want a steak too.
This is an interesting observation. Having watched Apple eat Sony's dust in consumer electronics for entertainment ( ipod ), then, eat Sony's dust in laptops and tablets... I really l know what you mean. Keeping in mind that I've reported on Apple since my first decent computer, the 128K
The entrance of Google and Samsung into hallowed Apple market space is scary. Sure, Apple HW and software and in most case, Apps are superior, but the MASS consumption market has started to migrate away from both MS and Apple. Apple knows this, but they are NOT responding quickly enough.
That's critical because , as in my case, I am currently 100% Apple BUT cannot justify the .60" extra width of the iPad Mini
So it's off to Nexus 7 land for now for my first NON Apple toy in decades.
In this fast moving second decade of the New Millennium, one or two slip ups and 'ouch' market share and stock devaluation hit!
I also been using for all apple device until recently. Apple product has always been far superior in most case in terms of quality and value, but the competition is really heating up.
I turned to nexus 7 and amazon kindle fire hd for 7 inch table. I never brought a andriod tablet before because every time I picked one up in the show rooms I would be disappointed by the touch responsiveness, but this gap is now fading. When the responsiveness gap is gone, andriod OS is actually a better os for power users. With a file system that is not sandbox and more things going on at the same time, it is a good alternative to iOS for those who can appreciate those freedom.
Now back to the main reason I started writing, I want to mention, I actually brought a kindle fire HD exchanged it for nexus 7 exchanged it back for kindle fire HD. The reason was, when I brought the kindle fire, I was curious if the nexus 7 is better, but when I got the nexus 7, it failed one of the thing I cared most, responsiveness of the touch interface.
At the end I found kindle fire HD to be superior, but only if you take time to root it. If you root a kindle, you'll get both amazon and google ecosystem, slightly better screen (arguable), double the space for the same price point and more responsive touch and flash! What you'll get on nexus 7 is quad core CPU, GPS and jelly bean but with jelly bean you lose flash. I didn't find anything that made use of the nexus 7 quad core, I ran dead trigger on nexus 7 and kindle fire hd and it played better on the kindle because the touch controls were more responsive.
So what I am saying it, if you are going for a andriod 7 inch, give the kindle some consideration if you are a power user who can handle rooting and installing files into system. The kindle fire hd is a quality kit sold bellow its worth, at a loss to amazon since they are banking in the fact normal users will not root stay exclusively to their ecosystem.
I agree the strategy is same for most device, it is the $300 for a iPod touch that is outside the norm.
I dont agree that the first device is sold at a premium. The first device of a new product is usually sold at the same price as the rest of the product generation, The first device just generally have really bad specs that feels like a experiment after the second generation comes out. 500 with no subsidy is about the same as how much we pay for the iphone without subsidy now.
So if the price of the iPad mini is high now, it will for most part, be this high for the next generations. If compared to other brands I would say iPad mini price is high, but if compare to apple product lines, I would say iPad mini fit perfectly.
However I think iPod touch 5 is breaking a tradition and the price point doesn't really connect with iPad mini and it could prove to be a experiment that leads to changes in pricing strategy later.
Yes but the vast vast majority of iPhones sold today are with a subsidy, and the price is advertised with that subsidy already included. There was no subsidy available for the first iPhone, every single buyer had to pay the full price AND sign a two year contract with AT&T. The iPad mini is heading to $199, it just might take a few years to get there, and Apple will sell plenty to people who will pay a higher price along the way, just like they did with the iPhone.
That's because it's not the fastest selling tablet in the UK. Last week here, the Carphone Warehouse announced that it was the fastest selling tablet in Carphone Warehouse history which really isn't saying much if you know that the only non Apple tablets they sold were the Blackberry Playbook, Motorola Xoom, and the HP touchpad iirc, and few people here are going to go to a mobile phone store to buy an iPad.
You get what you pay for. Wait until you need assistance, repair, or replacement. Wait until operating system upgrades leave you android three generations behind in a year.
Cheap is good, except when you want something done right.
Timex much cheaper than Rolex. BUT did anyone ever look at your watch an remark that you have a Timex?
Cheap is good, except when you want something done right.
Timex much cheaper than Rolex. BUT did anyone ever look at your watch an remark that you have a Timex?
The Problem with the iPad Mini: Apple's big Mistake
First, I love the Mini for its design, battery life, thinness and lightness... amazing there. BUT...
It's been said in other threads but I want to list it here with some other related information.
Overall, the screen is the major problem. I'll be returning the 2 Minis I got today after using them all day in the office and at home.
In short, the screen is washed out and pixelated. It just looks terrible. Books, video, the Web. Yuck!
I'm coming from an iPad 3 and iPhone 5... but nevermind that, Retina is pretty much standard with Apple's iPhones and iPods, and has been for a couple of years now, so many, many people will be spoiled by the Retina as well. Like Steve Jobs said, once you go Retina, "There's no going back." I'm convinced Jobs would never have done this.
So why did Apple decide to do it? Many have posted the answer already, but Apple gave us the answer at the Keynote: so Apps from the iPad 1/2 would just work. No need to do anything to them. So the Mini will run over 275,000 iPad Apps out of the box.
Except this is where the problems really begin and why Apple has made a huge blunder.
1. The Mini's pixels are about 20% smaller than the iPad 2's pixels. Apps therefore scale down to be about 20% smaller. All UI elements, buttons, etc. become some 20% smaller. I'm finding the pre-loaded Apps to be odd. Like the URL bar in Safari: it's tiny. So are the buttons. I opened Contacts as well as it looks like it's been put in a vice. Even the home button on the Mini is smaller! It's all bizarre with a less than desirable user experience.
2. If people are in agreement that the UIs on the Mini are too scaled down to really make sense without UI customization... then... maybe, just maybe, Apple made a big mistake here. And that's because if the UIs really do need to be modified at the Mini's current screen resolution, they should make a Retina Mini at whatever resolution they want or try to use the same res as the iPad 3/4. If people have to custom their UIs... better to do it on a Retina display than on a washed out, fuzzy screen that the Mini currently has. Right, right I know, we could write a book about engineering a Retina in the Mini. Let's just assume it's possible.
In other words, the way I'm seeing it, no matter what, the Mini needs its own UIs so using an iPad1/2 resolution is moot.
Somebody said in another thread that text looks terrible because the text is scaled down much smaller than the iPad 2 but the Mini doesn't have the pixel density to render that small text in detail well so it looks even worse than the iPad 1/2.
I'm finding this to be the case.
And even if you find the UI ok, it's hard to deny facts like high ppi on so many tablets now like Amazon's crap, the Nexus 7, etc.
What are Mini owners feeling here?
First, I love the Mini for its design, battery life, thinness and lightness... amazing there. BUT...
It's been said in other threads but I want to list it here with some other related information.
Overall, the screen is the major problem. I'll be returning the 2 Minis I got today after using them all day in the office and at home.
In short, the screen is washed out and pixelated. It just looks terrible. Books, video, the Web. Yuck!
I'm coming from an iPad 3 and iPhone 5... but nevermind that, Retina is pretty much standard with Apple's iPhones and iPods, and has been for a couple of years now, so many, many people will be spoiled by the Retina as well. Like Steve Jobs said, once you go Retina, "There's no going back." I'm convinced Jobs would never have done this.
So why did Apple decide to do it? Many have posted the answer already, but Apple gave us the answer at the Keynote: so Apps from the iPad 1/2 would just work. No need to do anything to them. So the Mini will run over 275,000 iPad Apps out of the box.
Except this is where the problems really begin and why Apple has made a huge blunder.
1. The Mini's pixels are about 20% smaller than the iPad 2's pixels. Apps therefore scale down to be about 20% smaller. All UI elements, buttons, etc. become some 20% smaller. I'm finding the pre-loaded Apps to be odd. Like the URL bar in Safari: it's tiny. So are the buttons. I opened Contacts as well as it looks like it's been put in a vice. Even the home button on the Mini is smaller! It's all bizarre with a less than desirable user experience.
2. If people are in agreement that the UIs on the Mini are too scaled down to really make sense without UI customization... then... maybe, just maybe, Apple made a big mistake here. And that's because if the UIs really do need to be modified at the Mini's current screen resolution, they should make a Retina Mini at whatever resolution they want or try to use the same res as the iPad 3/4. If people have to custom their UIs... better to do it on a Retina display than on a washed out, fuzzy screen that the Mini currently has. Right, right I know, we could write a book about engineering a Retina in the Mini. Let's just assume it's possible.
In other words, the way I'm seeing it, no matter what, the Mini needs its own UIs so using an iPad1/2 resolution is moot.
Somebody said in another thread that text looks terrible because the text is scaled down much smaller than the iPad 2 but the Mini doesn't have the pixel density to render that small text in detail well so it looks even worse than the iPad 1/2.
I'm finding this to be the case.
And even if you find the UI ok, it's hard to deny facts like high ppi on so many tablets now like Amazon's crap, the Nexus 7, etc.
What are Mini owners feeling here?
In the big picture apple isn't marketing for cheap people. It is making quality products, not cookie cutter plastic crap like those lower cost alternatives.
Picked up a Mini yesterday. Typing from it now. It is a beautifully designed piece of equipment. Zero regrets.
Steve
I respectfully disagree.
I got the Mini yesterday and have been using it for a good 10 hours so far. And honestly, I find no problems with the screen. At all. The same goes for the UI.
I brought it to work, and let my iPad 3 owning colleagues play with it as much as they liked. Several of them will be buying a Mini for themselves, after seeing it. This was not expected by any of them.
Text looking "terrible" and "washed out"? Honestly, there must be something wrong with your devices. I have perfect eyesight, bordering on too perfect... And I find no problems with text, images, UI or anything else on the mini.
Can I see a difference between the Mini's display and a retina display? Yes.
But it isn't an issue... For me. At all.
I got the Mini yesterday and have been using it for a good 10 hours so far. And honestly, I find no problems with the screen. At all. The same goes for the UI.
I brought it to work, and let my iPad 3 owning colleagues play with it as much as they liked. Several of them will be buying a Mini for themselves, after seeing it. This was not expected by any of them.
Text looking "terrible" and "washed out"? Honestly, there must be something wrong with your devices. I have perfect eyesight, bordering on too perfect... And I find no problems with text, images, UI or anything else on the mini.
Can I see a difference between the Mini's display and a retina display? Yes.
But it isn't an issue... For me. At all.
My domain of expertise is HTPO ( Human to Technology Performance Optimization) my own brand of Usability and Human Factors, so oddly, I am not terribly inclined towards hacking. That's the point of my business ( and Apple's) in fact- TRANSPARENCY So the 'Power' in this user is in user-brain equity, not technology savvy.
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Well. Affordability is a subjective term. The vast majority of over-priced stuff that has been sold in the past 5 years has gone to TFBs Trust Fund Babies. The Millennial Generation is buying like crazy at whatever price-point because they are not financing with personal income, but rather, with free money from trust funds
Yet ppl still buy them, and I am one of them, and loving every inch of my ipad mini
M
Mr.damien
Guest
Actually it's not last year chip A5, it's THIS year A5 chip with 32nm. That's why the iPad mini battery last so long.
Not sure Apple operates to "reach as many customers as possible" because it makes more long term by remaining somewhat exclusive/high end. But it is a mystery to me how anyone can trust Google devices and services. Just a couple of the many controversial issues:
"Google's data-collecting habits drawing more scrutiny"
http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-bl...-more-scrutiny
"Google wants to listen to your phone calls to promote ads"
http://bgr.com/2012/03/23/google-wants-to-listen-to-your-phone-calls-to-promote-ads/
I went to the local Apple Store today (Saturday) and they still had Minis in stock for those who wanted to buy them. I didn't see much more than curiosity about the product. I don't think people were actually buying the Mini. From overheard conversations it was obvious that the interest was in the full-sized iPads and not the Mini. I myself didn't buy one, though I certainly could have had I wanted to. I think it's overpriced for what you're getting. A Retina display (getting to hate that term as opposed to just using DPI) would surely help. And if they can get one into an iphone, which is even smaller I think they could manage it with the iPad Mini. I did notice that I could see individual pixels and I've gotten spoiled on my other iDevices where pixels are not visible. Being unable to, say, go to Youtube and play a 1080p video such that it might be viewed on a large screen via Airplay was also a deal-breaker for a device that is so media-oriented. True, you can't see the diff between 720 and 1080 on the Mini itself, the Mini is unable to handle or download 1080 at all. Content I get via my iPad 3 often ends up on my large screen TV..and that's where it makes a difference.
Be that as it may, I don't think the Mini will lead to "a mass exodus from the apple ecosystem" as the original poster said. It's only one product. If it doesn't sell well then Apple can either give up the idea or improve it so as to make it a more compelling purchase on their next try.
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Actually, it's easier to make smaller screens. It's not like the iPhone needs to have the same number of dots as the mini squeezed into a 4" space -- that would be insane.
For instance, the iPhone 5 is 1136x640, and iPad 3/4 is 2048x1536. See how the retina iPad has a much larger number of dots than the iPhone? But when we look at dpi, the iPhone is 326 dpi, while the iPad has 264 dpi. That is, the total number of dots isn't directly related to pixel density.
Anyway, what you'd need to do to make a "retina" iPad mini would be, for instance, to make a screen double the dimensions of the iPhone, so, 2272x1280. And this is the same dpi as the iPhone 5, so you could make this screen with the same process as doing it for the iPhone. However, you'd need to make sheets with a surface area 4 times that of the iPhone, and with every additional square inch, the chances of getting a defect increases. So trying to make larger screens is harder.
Again, you aren't trying to squeeze 2048x1536 dots into 4 inches, you are trying to take a 4 inch screen with 1136x640 dots (326 ppi), and make a 8 inch screen (well, it won't be 8, it'd be 7.xx, but I don't feel like doing trigonometry to calculate the exact length) with the same 326 dpi.
I went by Target last night for some other things and found that they had some in stock still. The Apple store had some in stock today. I actually like the Ipad mini, I just have no use or justification for purchasing it.