Apple's Exposure Notification System Guide

[fairuz]

So there’s no way to turn off the tracking, just the notifications. Great! We’re supposed to believe the info that’s put out by companies who slow down our phones, sell our data, promote censorship on their platforms, believe there are more than 2 genders and enforce this on their users. Right. Apple has our best interest at heart. You have to be mentally challenged to believe that.

The only way to not be a part of this is to not upgrade your os. My 11 pro max will die with 13.4 installed.

Maybe disabling Bluetooth disables it. I never have it on anyway.
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Only a tiny number of people can, and certainly not the poster above who was demanding proof.

Oops, sorry for the ninja edit. Yeah, definitely. All I'm saying is people demanding proof want to see more than the spec, so there's no use in telling them to read it.

 

[Mitochris]

You are right, please keep the economy close till hopefully one day we get this saviour vaccine that may or mayn't be effective for everyone.

Be afraid, very afraid of the invisible enemy, and while you are at it trust the powers that be to look out for your safety. I guess you need to review your studies in microbiology 101.

Great plan, good luck with that

This app is a tool to enable the opening of the economy. We do not know enough of this. Iris yet to make any calls but it seems to kill around 0.66% of infected people. This is higher than the flu. But the bigger problem is is that a larger number of people will be affected as there is no immunity to it. Unhindered, estimates predict that it will affect 60% of a population. You do the math. The problem is, that it will overburden the health systems as seen in Italy and Spain. This will lead to more deaths.
i am not for shutdowns. But if people are not listening and do not follow the instructions then you have to get more draconian.
and this pathetic paranoia that politicians are some overlords. Come one, have you met some of them? There is not overlordshipness. And that’s the problem.
if your post was sarcastic, then I apologise. I just woke up.
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The vast majority of

How many people do you know take the annual flu vaccine and how many people is it effective for? Yet it takes so many lives, but lets throw logic out the window.

The vast majority of healthcare workers I work with take the flu vaccine. Works quite well.
flu kills people, yes, but the numbers you have are over a year. This little thing we have now has killed more in two months, despite restrictions.

 

[hans1972]

In high density areas like a city, you’ll be at risk for getting more pings about COVID than texts from friends and colleagues.

Since most health apps will use 10-15 minutes as part of the definition of close contact, the amount of notifications will be low for most people.

How many people do you stay that close to for such a long time in these times? And what is the probability that one of these persons are infected, get a test and share that information with you?
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The violation of privacy is not with the data (which I applaud Apple for handling well), but with the idea of allowing our health to be broadcast and allowing our personal devices invaded with pings from those who willy-nilly broadcast their health out of some noble sense of saving the world.

If the official apps are worthwhile they will not allow people to broadcast this on their own. It should require two-party consent: Public health official know you have tested positive for Covid-19 and you approve for your random identifiers to be shared.

 

[FlyingDutch]

Great, then this won't affect you. For all intents and purposes, you don't carry a phone around.
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Head in the sand. Got it.

And btw, it is telling you exposure time and proximity. But if you're the type where the less you know the better, then sure, this functionality is not meant for you.

I’m astonished and shocked by the level of ignorance of certain people posting here...
After reading their comments now I’m trusting them even less for MY health in case they will get infected.
They are too selfish to care about the rest of the world.
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Thanks, but no thanks. I dont want to be a part of this fascicist surveillance program. I want my ******* rights back.

You have duties before rights...
And to avoid the spread of a virus potentially deadly is one of your duties.

 

[FlyingDutch]

"Thanks, but no thanks. I dont want to be a part of this fascicist surveillance program. I want my ******* rights back."

Good lord, the DRAMA.

This is a big issue with many youngster here. They speak about RIGHTS (even God-given rights 🤦🏻‍♂️) but never about RESPONSIBILITIES.

 

[akash.nu]

This exposure notification (let’s get it right, this is important) is for a singular, incredibly novel virus with a large number of silent carriers, no vaccine guaranteed, and treatment options for those already sick still heavily under research. Using the HIV/AIDS parallel is borderline offensive. That’s a virus (in the case of HIV) for which testing and treatment is widely available, after fighting for a long time for such.

The logic that this is going to bleed into other aspects of our lives falls apart when you realize this is an interim solution for the aforementioned novelties of this virus, particularly in how it spreads. The same virus could barely cause any symptoms for one person and they could experience a full recovery, but they pass another before realizing they’re sick, that person catches it, and without any proper next steps taken, they’re dead. This API allows for those “next steps” to be taken in an extremely prompt fashion, if done properly. The identifiers are anonymous, no matter how many people on here don’t think that’s possible (conspiracy, plain and simple); getting sued for healthcare costs is really not a concern here.

We are lucky to have this, thanks to the proliferation of smartphones. With the way these APIs are built, there is no “permanent” opt-in. Turn the switch off, delete the app. Believing this won’t effectively get rid of everything related to exposure notification on one’s phone is, again, pure conspiracy. (This forum is no stranger to that though.)

This isn’t about some noble sense of saving the world. For many, who are either high-risk themselves or live with high-risk people (or both), this is about genuine self-protection and the protection of loved ones.

P.S.—with respect to mental health, the idea that someone’s anxiety over getting these pings all the time is enough reason for them to turn it off is ludicrous. If they’re getting that many pings, they need to stay at home.

Nicely done

I can’t believe some of the posts here. How do people survive living under the rock like this?! I’m baffled.

 

[akash.nu]

here's a scenario that hasn't been explained:

Two strangers who have never been near each other, turn this app on and participate.
Person 1 gets sick and reports it to the app.

But since Person 2 never has been near Person 1, Bluetooth identifiers were never exchanged.

While Person 1 is still infected (and contagious) he HAS to still go out to the store to get food. When he's waiting in line, (next to Person 1) will Person 1 get an ALARM immediately that there's a person nearby who is a leper?

• Will it be real time? Or always old news with a time lag?

If it's REAL TIME (Alert! Alert! Infected Person Nearby) are hoards of people (using the app) going to spill out of doorways in panic the moment the Leper enters the store?

If yes - not good.
If no - contact tracing won't protect you

This is a very good use case. We should try and find out what the response time is.

 

[manu chao]

Or maybe he’s fully aware of how grossly overblown this whole thing is, and he’s not about to endorse it by playing along in this medical theater. Just a thought. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I used Pence’s behaviour simply as an example, as a reference point. But then timm pretended to (a) not knowing what I was referring to and (b) doubling on this faint by declaring to not wanting to know about it. It’s the equivalent of walking around with your fingers in your ears and loudly whistling ’I can’t hear you’.

 

[hans1972]

You need to read the verbiage CAREFULLY. This has been discussed in other threads. The only thing the switch does is disable notifications. It does not disable the beacons with your device identifiers. There is no known way of disabling that.

According to the API documentation the way I read it, the transmitting of beacons do not happen until after you install an app that uses the API and you have approved that use.

Do you have any documentation which says the transmitting of IDs from this API is going on just by upgrading the OS?

 

[manu chao]

How many people do you know take the annual flu vaccine and how many people is it effective for? Yet it takes so many lives, but lets throw logic out the window.

Have you ever seen a flu season were the number of cases keeps doubling every two days? Because that is what COVID 19 has done in almost every country until countermeasures were taken.
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PROVE IT.

Apple always “says” that their data is encrypted, anonymous, can never be traced back to anyone and can’t be hacked, violated, or translated.

I challenge ANYONE to prove this. Until then, that is simple propaganda from Apple’s marketing department.

And I challenge you to stay away from any internet connected device until the manufacturer can prove it doesn’t leak any data. Did you stick with the original iPhone because the iPhone 3G added a GPS chip?

 

[manu chao]

This implies the API is able to give you the keys based on region. Is this lat/long and radius? Is this some other way, like FEMA regions? I can't say I know. Suffice it to say, this data can be retrieved specific for some kind of location. This also implies that location is then sent, at least upon a positive test, to the API. Furthermore, these keys and their locations are public by necessity.

Everytime you connect to any server, your IP address already provides a fairly narrow location range. And while the keys of a confirmed infected person are public to the OS and the API, they could be hidden from the app (and thus the health authorities). But the location (beyond the region) of the keys wouldn’t be public

Your phone is broadcasting beacon keys. These keys could then be easily "slurped up" by any number of sensors, such as those large retailers have for tracking Bluetooth ID's around the stores. Lex Luthor could then conceivably keep an entire list of beacon keys broadcasted anywhere he can put sensors, which, because he's Lex Luthor, will from here on out be everywhere you are, up to and including your apartment building / house / place of residence and - why not - your vehicle or person.

And that isn’t already happening/possible with your Bluetooth and WiFi MAC address?
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If you use technology in any meaningful way (and I assume you do, since you're on Macrumors), then tremendous amounts of personal information about you are being digitized, information far more sensitive and important than randomly generated bluetooth identifier strings. Do you use social media, online banking, email, messaging, fitness tracking, etc.? Do you message your doctor through an app? Carry a cellphone with a GPS? How do you know any of that information is secure and isn't being hacked, stolen, or sold to the highest bidder?

People's entire lives are digital now but are losing their minds that someone could access a randomly generated bluetooth identifier string. I honestly just don't get it.

It’s a bit like a long pedestrian suspension bridge. You can try to explain people why it is perfectly safe despite swinging with every footstep but they will still remain fearful. And while it is ok to be fearful, people should be willing to try to separate emotion from facts and logic.

 

[manu chao]

Read the damn spec. Then read it again. Then again, until you understand it. It DOES NOT KNOW where, when and how you interacted with anyone (or even who those anyones are).

Small correction: “but Eric knows he was exposed to COVID-19 for 10 minutes on Tuesday”

So the phone stores the day of the interaction and possibly a rough duration. But that is on the phone not on the server (the server stores the region of the anonymous identifiers of the infected people). Not sure if the server also knows the day every uploaded identifier was generated.

 

[DEXTERITY]

The only thing I need to know is how to not be apart of it.

Dumb, this is game changing in a way.

 

[Mindgap]

13.4 was my last ever made iOs update. Not being part of this.

 

[BB1970]

More likely scenario: Ryan is a conspiracy believing red hat wearing idiot. He never turns on the app and attends a “protest”. When infected, he wonders what happened, but can’t blame himself so instead blames a former President.
There. Fixed it for you.

 

[citysnaps]

Just curious. How many here against this also :

* keeps their phone and all computers inside faraday bags when not in use (if they use such devices at all)
* never brings a phone to their residence
* never has mail or packages delivered to their residence
* never uses a credit card
* never titles property (house or car) in their name
* never takes out a consumer loan
* always uses a vpn they self-host
* doesn’t use Facebook, Twitter, or even Macrumors?

The privacy concerns of this API are orders of magnitude less than any of the things listed above. Just sayin’.

So very true. But I think some here will have trouble with the phrase "orders of magnitude less."

 

[glowplug]

It’s not just people here on MacRumors that think contact tracing with apps is a bad idea.

False positives, false negatives and false sense of security, why contact tracing apps could be a disaster.

Contact-tracing apps are not a solution to the COVID-19 crisis

www.brookings.edu

 

[blacksurfer]

So the six feet distancing at the grocery store is BS? Why would I get notified if a person in line far away from me got the covid? This will just scare the sh*t out of me and will make me want to get tested.

 

[nicolas17]

13.4 was my last ever made iOs update. Not being part of this.

Dude. Turn the setting off.

 

[BC2009]

Thanks, but no thanks. I dont want to be a part of this fascicist surveillance program. I want my ******* rights back.

maybe you should not carry any device with a cellular antenna. rumor has it that they can pinpoint your location using these things called “cell towers”. but maybe you only use burner phones to get around that.
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It’s encouraging to see many of the comments here are sceptical of this service. History shows that governments all all too happy to infringe on personal rights and liberties under the guise of ‘safety;’ the modern spin in our corporatocracy is that it is private companies who are offering these slick, well-marketed Orwellian surveillance systems. But make no mistake, it’s the same old fascism.

you also should avoid cellular devices or stick to burner phones

 

[chucker23n1]

This is a big issue with many youngster here. They speak about RIGHTS (even God-given rights 🤦🏻‍♂️) but never about RESPONSIBILITIES.

Youngsters speak about god-given rights? Seems like you got the wrong cohort there.
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It’s not just naysayers here on MacRumors that think contact tracing with apps is a bad idea.

False positives, false negatives and false sense of security, why contact tracing apps could be a disaster.

Contact-tracing apps are not a solution to the COVID-19 crisis

www.brookings.edu

False negatives are problematic indeed.

False positives, though? So what if one person too many gets tested?

 

[manu chao]

So the six feet distancing at the grocery store is BS? Why would I get notified if a person in line far away from me got the covid? This will just scare the sh*t out of me and will make me want to get tested.

Well, if it makes you want to be tested then the system is working. Because obviously it is by testing everybody with a non-negligible chance of having gotten infected and then isolating them if they test positive that one snuffs out the disease. How do you stop an infectious disease (before having a vaccine)? By preventing infected people to spread it. Lockdowns and social distancing are obviously one tool but that is painting with a very broad stroke. Testing everybody, eg, weekly and then only isolating those that test positive is another but while that is less economically damaging than a lockdown, it's still somewhat of a sledgehammer approach that isn't easy to scale up and not cheap either. Large-scale contact tracing cuts down on the number of people needing testing significantly while still identifying a large proportion of those infected (and thus can largely prevent them to spread the disease).

One can actually look at the percentage of people tested that test negative as an indicator of success, as the larger that number is, the less likely it is that one doesn't identify the infected. Of course that number cannot be seen in isolation, it is only comparable if the criteria to decide who gets tested are broadly the same.
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It’s not just naysayers here on MacRumors that think contact tracing with apps is a bad idea.

False positives, false negatives and false sense of security, why contact tracing apps could be a disaster.

False positives are only a problem if there is a testing shortage. Otherwise, they just add some costs (which are still minuscule compared to the economic costs of lockdowns).

False negatives are a problem but that applies to any kind of testing one does. But not testing people is worse than testing them and having some false negatives among them.

And that sense of security argument applies to any kind of safety measure (motorcycle helmets, seatbelts, airbags, condoms, washing your hands, smoke detectors, etc.). Yes, some people will behave a bit more recklessly but in basically all cases, the positive effects largely outweigh the effect those people have. Yes, you will find 'baffoons' that go into a hospital and shake the hands of people with COVID 19 because they think washing your hands will mitigate the risk they just took (and state so on television).

 

[BuffaloTF]

To all those people (and more) on this thread that are on both sides maybe you should review this about the virus.

Yes, folks I don't know countries and governments around the world (except Sweden and some States) shutdown an entire economy for a virus. Look at the numbers, stop catering to the fear, get informed, ask questions, think critically and think objectively.

Apple now focus on getting Xcode (full) for iOS/iPadOS.

Ironic. Telling a large group of people to get informed, whilst being uninformed and quoting an insanely far-right extremist website. The mortality rate sits at 7.1% while counting all the unresolved cases as "recovered". If you do it the right way and do it as only a percentage of cases with a concrete outcome right now, it's much higher.

But yes, someone needs to get informed. And they need to start that process by staying away from one of the worst websites on the planet.

 

[hourglass111]

More likely scenario: Ryan is a conspiracy believing red hat wearing idiot. He never turns on the app and attends a “protest”. When infected, he wonders what happened, but can’t blame himself so instead blames a former President.
There. Fixed it for you.

I will not be participating in this mass surveillance project for reasons I’ve mentioned in other posts.

Let’s see how accurate you are:

• X My name isn’t Ryan.
• X I don’t believe in conspiracies. Nor news. I read the data and connect the dots because neither side/outlet/source replaces my own mind. (If you hate certain connections of data, that would actually be an inverse conspiracy theory, FYI.)
  • X Not an idiot since I don’t outsource my mind/thinking.
• X I don’t wear red hats, especially of the ilk you imply. Though I’ve thought about getting a Harvard hat. That probably throws you off a bit?
• ✓ Won’t open / turn on / enable this mass surveillance “feature.” Correct.
• ~ Unlikely to attend a protest, with or without COVID. But it’s a toss up.
• X IF infected. Infection is not guaranteed due to various circumstances and conditions, and even if it were, the majority of people get a mild illness or don’t even know they’ve had it.
  • X “Won’t know what happened.” If infected … I’ll know I was infected? Unless I don’t have symptoms like many people, then I may not know!
• X If infected, I’m not going to blame President Obama, nor President Trump when his administration expires. The irony is I’m sure you’re blaming a current President for many things!

There. Looks like I fixed that for you! You score about a 1-2 out of 9. Ad hominem attacks never add up, especially when they backfire, now do they?

I’ll toss you a bonus point around blame though. My notion is, if we’re going to be tracked and essentially the data WILL KNOW who infects whom, then we SHOULD get each others’ private contact information.

Why? So when I’m infected by you, I can sue your insurance to cover my healthcare. And if you’re infected by me, you can sue to use mine for your healthcare. Like with car accidents. (Assuming we even get symptoms or end up in hospital. And oh, my bad, I don’t have healthcare. #America)

Since clearly we humans can’t be trusted to be healthy enough to ward off this virus or realistic enough to deal with it if we get it, it makes sense to me to go all out so that I can blame you when you infect me and be compensated for it, since the data should be able to validate the interaction like an intersection camera that catches the crash.

Funny how you don’t want to go that far though. Just far enough to make sure long-opposed surveillance systems see the light of day.

Are you sure you haven’t bought into a conspiracy theory? Your implied position is very Orwellian.

 

[nicolas17]

Let’s see how accurate you are:

• X My name isn’t Ryan.

Why do you think he was talking about you? If you don't realize why he used the name "Ryan" in his post, it shows you didn't read the article.