Apple's Final Cut Pro X Woes Boost Sales of Adobe Video Tools for Mac by 45%

[ade2bee]

Arrogance...

Apple is capable of making mistakes and bad choices, just like any other company. They aren't infallible.

There are mistakes and there are catastrophes!!! A mistake it 'oh sorry, we put the button in the wrong place'... this is the equivalent of Rolls Royce bringing out a rusty family hatch!!!

How many weeks later and still no updates on the features Apple left out, but promise would come updates? As with other people I am one of the few who were growing out of iMovie and needed something with more scope... Nearly all my acquaintances who are professionals in the industries are upgrading to another platform instead of Final Cut... I love Apple and would never buy otherwise, but that arrogance has gone one step too far this time.

 

[talmy]

Adobe sales are up 43%, but what is missing here is how are FCPX sales compared to FCS? I expect FCPX is far outselling FCS. Bad news for pros (which I am not), but potentially good news for both Adobe and Apple!

 

[kolax]

No one said that being first was important. Saying that Premiere is a poorly executed FCP clone points out that Adobe's only concern has been to make an application as much like FCP as possible. They have not added any functionality above what FCP had and many of their mirrored functions don't work as well as the FCP equivalent.

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That simply supports my point. Adobe is only concerned with making Premiere like FCP. They've sacrificed quality in the process.

So you've used Premier Pro to its full potential or are you someone who torrented it, went 'meh' and act like you're the god of movie production who knows functionality inside out on FCP and Premier Pro?

And how does the fact that Randy working on Premier Pro originally support your argument? It actually makes an inverse argument: Apple wants to make FCP more like Premier Pro so they recruited one of Premier Pro's original developers. Not saying Apple does want to do that though, just shooting holes in your argument.

 

[the8thark]

I personally hate Premiere Pro (cs4). I used it ever day for a year and a half and grew to despise it. So for those of you who hate FCPX, there are those of us that hate PPro and are more than happy to work w/ FPC7/FCPX.

Quoted for truth. And I agree 100%.

45% more sales does not mean Apple had 45% less sales. Both companies products could have had a boost in sales. And 45% does not = a sales figure.

We have no idea how many Apple is selling.
We have no idea how many Adobe is selling.

But we do know Abobe is selling +45% of some unknown undisclosed sales figure.

So in fact we know very little indeed.

 

[CmdrLaForge]

Quoted for truth. And I agree 100%.

45% more sales does not mean Apple had 45% less sales. Both companies products could have had a boost in sales. And 45% does not = a sales figure.

We have no idea how many Apple is selling.
We have no idea how many Adobe is selling.

But we do know Abobe is selling +45% of some unknown undisclosed sales figure.

So in fact we know very little indeed.

Absolutely agree. In fact for the price FCPX is currently sold I assume many people downloaded it just to try it.

And I think many just bought now Adobe because they want to get the 50% rebate. Doesn't mean they stick with it.

I guess I am one of the few people who really enjoy editing in FCPX. I really like it. What for me is missing is proper Sound Editing which is more or less not possible.

 

[winston1236]

The question is whether the switchers stay with Adobe for the coming years.

Until adobe makes a mistake then yes they will, but of course eventually they will and the switch will be made appropriately

 

[FrankieTDouglas]

I'm actually designing and leading a new photography program at a private college. Nonlinear editing will play a big part in the curriculum. Six months earlier, it was a no brainer... going with Final Cut Pro for all of the lab stations and teaching. Now, not so much. I'm waiting six months to see where FCPX goes, but with an eye to the future, I keep leaning closer and closer to Premiere Pro to build our motion foundation on.

And I doubt I'm the only one feeling this way...

 

[samcraig]

Funny how it took a mistake by Apple rather than any virtues in Adode's Creative Suite for some people to make a change.

Now that Apple has made Final Cut Studio available once again, I'm sure many will come back. FCP has always been a much better video editing program than Premier, IMO.

No they won't. Not the professional world. Companies that invest in licenses and skills aren't going to keep swapping technology from year to year - and right now the Apple roadmap for FCPX isn't clear. And I have used both editing programs (and I am a professional editor) and love them both. Many professionals stayed with FCP because we/they were promised a lot which at present hasn't been delivered. THAT'S why many people switched or at least bought Adobe licenses.

It's not a question of Adobe's "virtues" - but pure economics. Why would a company spend more money, time and resources with new/other software instead of staying the course.

Conversely - it's probably MORE telling that they switched when they saw the current (or lack of) roadmap for FCPX.

 

[accessoriesguy]

I just bought the Adobe CS5.5 Production Premium package myself. With that 50% discount it was cheaper than a single Photoshop Extended license, which really was the only thing I genuinely needed. And I didn’t even have to offer proof of owning FCP. Well done Adobe!

your kidding? I want!

 

[Magrathea]

CS5.5 + Avchd .... right .....

I think the whole native editing of AVCHD is a crock of *****. Sure, if you're messing around with some holiday shots of your snotty nose kids go ahead but real editor transcode, no? Trying adding lots of layers of 1080p footage and color correction and you have to transcode. Correct my if I'm wrong. I searched and searched for an easy way to transcode footage from AVCHD to get it into PP 5.5 with no luck. Sure I could use Neoform etc but they didn't integrate nicely. Sorry I don't have a rocking Mercury enabled graphic card and if I wanted that I'd switch to a nasty PC at half the cost of a Mac.

Just got a Mac Mini with the best Nvidia card, sure it's a toy, but it is a rocket ship with FCP X.

So, yeah I have both and choose to use FCP X for now.

Also as someone pointed out no bigger editing house is gonna jump ship to FCP X right away, never gonna happen so I'm sure there are lots of shops that are going to wait and see. FCP X has some amazing features to organize footage and I am working on my second project with it, it is actually really quite nice but then this is for me a one man shop working on smaller HD projects. It seamlessly works with ProRes Proxy and ProRess 422. I do all my editing in proxy and then after at the end everything is re rendered with ProRes422. My little Mini barely breaks a sweat. Guess I should give PP5.5 another whirl.

 

[ZAiPhone]

Apple should have waited is the most asinine comment possible and proof of what divas editors are. Really your current version stopped working? Apple should have continued to labor in a vacuum rather than get feedback? Why could you not wait and see what happens while your existing software stil works fine? What's stopping you from doing that?

Apple is getting tons of good feedback on what's wrong with this version 1.0 product. That makes me happy. The NYT and Apple FCPX FAQs address a lot of the misinformation that is everywhere including this thread.

Mark Twain said there are lies, damn lies and statistics. Really how many people bought the Adobe bundle on sale because one of the components other than PP was cheaper than stand alone? As no proof is required how many people were really upgrading from old PP to the latest PP? Educational discount is available to grade school kids for an even better deal.

With reports indicating that Apple will be discontinuing the Soundtrack Pro component of Logic Studio with the update. It's a sure bet that $50~$99 Soundtrack ProX is coming to the Mac App store. Apples not interested in 2 million seats. They are interested in tens if not hundreds of millions of seats. iPhone 5 production is at 150K/day those are the numbers that floats Tim's boat.

Apple has $67 Billion in the bank and another kick ass product on its way to greatness.

 

[POSTguy]

A lot of wind that just blows

I've listened to all the whinning and threats of switching to another editing program since the introduction of FCPX and all I can say is boo hoo! I am so glad I didn't listen to the original hoop la and shy away. I jumped in eagerly with both feet and haven't looked back... until this last week. I needed to create a blu ray disc with menus. So I dusted off Encore CS4 and the nightmares and sleep deprivation began. After endless google searches looking for help with error after error (amazingly I wasn't the only one with the problems) I finally burned a disc only to discover my new blu ray player doesn't support BD-R and my old Sony player is in storage. I still don't know how the disc turned out. Frustrated, I decided to burn a DVD for proof and discoverers my 24 fps video would look choppy at 29.97 fps (duh!). I wasn't about to use AME to transcode videos for the dvd as I had done for the blu ray because of the problem Encore has with audio having to be reduced a few frames in each time line in order to be able to burn a disc (if you are not awarer of this issue you will pull your hair out saying why the f* won't my disc burn). Long stroy short I transcoded all 18 of my videos with compressor 3.5 (haven't bought 4 yet) and built my hour long DVD in a coupe hours. The dvd looks great wish I could watch my blu ray!

Also, had to open a coupe old files created in FCP7 needing to do some quick color corrections and I so wished I could open them up in X. I dread having to work on old files because X is truly that much better.

Adobe does awesome at photoshop, after effects, indesign but IMHO premier pro, AME, and encore is a joke!

Give FCPX a chance... Once apple finally gets all the requested features in I think everyone will find what a truly remarkable NLE it is. (don't let us early adopters down apple!)

 

[samcraig]

Apple should have waited is the most asinine comment possible and proof of what divas editors are. Really your current version stopped working? Apple should have continued to labor in a vacuum rather than get feedback? Why could you not wait and see what happens while your existing software stil works fine? What's stopping you from doing that?

I'm not a diva editor. I'm also a marketing and PR professional in the IT realm. And NOTHING has stopped me from working in FCP 3 - which is what I do. Having used FCPX - it was and continues to be not ready for primetime on a bunch of features that exist in FCP3 and also Adobe (which I use far far far far less these days if at all).

But I'm not a production house - nor do I worry about multiple seats, licenses and the product roadmap.

As a PR professional - and one that has been at it for 20 years, I think my opinion is more than valid when I suggest that either Apple should have waited and/or kept FCP 3 on sale and not pulled it the second FCPX was on the market. I also think it would have behooved Appled to be more forthcoming with what features were and were not available at launch. Detailed.

At the end of the day - does it matter? No - editors will just either deal with the older version or switch or - when FCPX makes sense for them - they will switch.

Suggesting that Apple wait wasn't asinine in the slightest. They lose NOTHING by waiting. Nothing at all. But there was plenty to gain.

 

[ZAiPhone]

Suggesting that Apple wait wasn't asinine in the slightest. They lose NOTHING by waiting. Nothing at all. But there was plenty to gain.

FYI Apple put the old version back up for sale. The feedback worked!

You are so emotional you missed my whole point about the benefits of early release which is feedback. That is what they would have lost if they waited. Feedback is not nothing, it's everything in making the product better sooner. The sooner Apple gets the feedback and can start improving, the better imnho.

 

[samcraig]

FYI Apple put the old version back up for sale. The feedback worked!

You are so emotional you missed my whole point about the benefits of early release which is feedback. That is what they would have lost if they waited. Feedback is not nothing, it's everything in making the product better sooner. The sooner Apple gets the feedback and can start improving, the better imnho.

I'm not emotional in the slightest - my work flow didn't change a bit. And they could have gotten feedback via a beta program. And some feedback that they got is "no brainer" since it's obvious what features were in the previous version that were missing in the new one.

 

[Rodimus Prime]

I'm an FCPX hater, but just because I don't like the new version doesn't mean I need to immediately jump ship and go learn a new editing platform. FCP7 is still there and still awesome.

It not that they jumped shipped but at the same token there is no getting around the fact that FCP7 was way behind the others in terms of power.

You would have a lot of FCP7 people who were waiting on FCPX holding off jumping ship due to it lagging behind. The FCPX being way below a pro level App was the final straw and what pushed them over the edge.

You have pent up demand the FCPX failed to pull.

 

[danimal99]

I'm amused at all these so-called professionals that were so angry at a program that hasn't been out 3 months yet, they just up and switched - to the same old technology in a different, and more difficult, wrapper. That's not how professionals act- that's how flighty consumers act.

Just because they don't know how to transition to a new, better way of doing things, doesn't mean there's anything wrong with the software. Check out IzzyVideo's extensive tutorial on FCPX to see what happens when a real editor spends his time digging into and learning the program, instead of complaining and writing negative reviews.

I'm also tickled at these non-software engineers that think you can just wave a wand and release major new feature updates. As a professional coder myself, I only wish it were so easy.

 

[LethalWolfe]

I'm also tickled at these non-software engineers that think you can just wave a wand and release major new feature updates. As a professional coder myself, I only wish it were so easy.

I'm also tickled at these-non editors that think you can just wave a wand and the entire post production industry would magically conform to Apple's perception of how the world should be as opposed to how the world is. As a professional editor myself, I only wish it were so easy.

Many people have been waiting nearly half a decade for the next major upgrade of FCP. When FCP 10 came out it didn't meet their needs so they switched, or returned, to software that does meet their needs. You can call it flighty if you want but I call it being pragmatic (and exceeding patient waiting on Apple for so long). If FCP 10 does come around I'm sure many people will add it to their tool belt, but not before. Potential is nice and all but it doesn't pay the bills.

Steve Jobs is fond of Henry Ford's quote that goes something like, If I asked the people what they wanted they would've said a faster horse. Well, if we are going to call FCP 10 a car and other NLEs horses then I think it's fair to say that editors are farmers. And if a farmer is going to replace the horses he needs a tractor, not a car.

Heck, lots of the editors I know started out editing actual film, then videotape, then moved to nonlinear editing software (most likely Avid, Premiere or Media100 prior to FCP) so Luddites they are not.


Lethal

 

[pcmxa]

Just because they don't know how to transition to a new, better way of doing things, doesn't mean there's anything wrong with the software. Check out IzzyVideo's extensive tutorial on FCPX to see what happens when a real editor spends his time digging into and learning the program, instead of complaining and writing negative reviews.

Can I ask (and I really am asking) how it is a new, better way of doing things?) I had the opportunity to use FCPx and edited two short projects on it. I thought it had a more stylish interface, and I loved the instant preview, but I had a harder time contoling the exact duration of mattes and transitions and setting duration and speed seemed clumsy. It also seemed to lack so fairly basic image control filters, or combined several filters together into effects with overly simplified controls. I also dislike the inflexibility of the layout for multi-monitor setups and the lack of ability to output to reference hardware. When I loked at the final result of the two projects compared to identical projects from Premier, their was significantly more noise in the FCPx video (this apparently came from the transcoding of the footage as opposed to editing DSLR files directly. That was the final straw for me.

But, I admit I didn't tax FCPx fully with the projects I made, and that I might have missed what made it a new and better way of doing things. Are their particular tools with FCPx that are better than the tools in Premier or (FCP7) for that matter, that make editing precisely easier? Am I missing something about the workflow (the events-projects model) that is a significant improvement over old workflows?

I am seriously asking. I like a few things about FCPx, and I really like one or two. I don't want to give it short shrift.

 

[Nostromo]

I'm really curious what will happen now.

A lot of development must have gone into Final Cut Pro X.

Apple has great talent to seduce.

Now I'm curious what our favorite fruit will come up with to turn the tables on Adobe's editing suite.

 

[baryon]

After my horrible, horrible experience with FCP X, despite having been a FCP 7 user for years, I decided to give Adobe Premiere Pro a try. And guess what? I realized that Premiere Pro is the most wonderful, fast, responsive and professional video editor among the three that I have used. Not only does it have every feature you can possibly ever dream of, but it's FAST. Incredibly fast. When you drag the playhead, it plays INSTANTLY even with tons of effects. It does NOT require you to render anything whatsoever to play it straight away. I don't understand that big deal with FCP X's background rendering, when Premiere doesn't even NEED to render at all, not in the background, and not in the foreground. When I thought that I didn't have enough RAM and that my 3-years old MBP was getting old, I realized that it was just the bloated software that FCP 7 and FCP X are that made it seem like that.

Premiere is great, I'm going to finish my FCP projects and completely uninstall all versions of FCP and I'm sticking with Premiere! If Apple didn't make FCP X, I would still be using FCP 7 not knowing that Premiere is so good.

I STRONGLY recommend that everyone who is not moaning and dissatisfied go get Premiere, you won't ever look back!


PS: For those saying that there's nothing wrong with FCP X: try it. Take just this one thing: there is no "SAVE" button! There is no way to SAVE your freaking project. It decides for you when to save, about once an hour or so. So when FCP X crashes (every 20 mins), you WILL LOSE all your data since the last time it saved. You can't save every 30 seconds if you so wish, knowing how unstable this application is. You can't save before opening a risky file extension, when you KNOW that FCP X is likely to crash. Add to this the fact that there is hardly any keyframe editing, almost no flexibility with animation and no bloody way to link/unlink video/audio tracks at will. No way to copy/paste effects. No such effect as "curves" and many others are missing. It's very LAGGY, very very SLOW and EXTREMELY BUGGY. It crashes all the time, sliders get stuck, buttons stop responding, takes ages to render and no there is NO need to render anything until you're 100% finished on a modern processor.

 

[HelveticaRoman]

It's not about the relative pros and cons of FCP 7 vs FCP X, it's about Apple's propensity to EOL a business line without notice. That's what makes it difficult for companies to commit investment to a corporation that demonstrates no obligation to provide a reliable and transparent future.

 

[robeddie]

Adobe sales are up 43%, but what is missing here is how are FCPX sales compared to FCS? I expect FCPX is far outselling FCS. Bad news for pros (which I am not), but potentially good news for both Adobe and Apple!

We can't know sales, but one barameter (not scientific of course) would be to look at the NUMBER of reviews for FCPX.

After the first week, when people were rushing to buy it sight unseen, FCPX already had 1500 reviews in the mac app store.

Now here, almost 3 months later, there are only 2007 reviews.

Only people who buy FCPX can review it in the mac app store, so the glacial growth of the number of reviews in the past 3 months may hint at the sales pace as well.

 

[robeddie]

I'm also tickled at these-non editors that think you can just wave a wand and the entire post production industry would magically conform to Apple's perception of how the world should be as opposed to how the world is. As a professional editor myself, I only wish it were so easy.

Many people have been waiting nearly half a decade for the next major upgrade of FCP. When FCP 10 came out it didn't meet their needs so they switched, or returned, to software that does meet their needs. You can call it flighty if you want but I call it being pragmatic (and exceeding patient waiting on Apple for so long). If FCP 10 does come around I'm sure many people will add it to their tool belt, but not before. Potential is nice and all but it doesn't pay the bills.

Steve Jobs is fond of Henry Ford's quote that goes something like, If I asked the people what they wanted they would've said a faster horse. Well, if we are going to call FCP 10 a car and other NLEs horses then I think it's fair to say that editors are farmers. And if a farmer is going to replace the horses he needs a tractor, not a car.

Heck, lots of the editors I know started out editing actual film, then videotape, then moved to nonlinear editing software (most likely Avid, Premiere or Media100 prior to FCP) so Luddites they are not.


Lethal

Ok, Danimal99 (who's handle honors one of my all time favorite Chicago Bears players) do you have an answer?

He didn't whine, he laid out some very specific things that make FCPX a WORSE way of doing things, rather than better.

You made a strong statement without backing it up. He's given you a chance to refute him ... so where'd you go?

 

[nerdo]

I for one took advantage of both promos. (Avid&Adobe) but have to admit it was 90% just for the huge savings.

Still use FCS on a daily basis FCX used for a while and deleted off my system.

Yep got both discounts as well and still use FCP7. Premiere Pro 5.5 is not too bad, I like the fact that Magic bullet with the Qaudro 4000 card can give you a pretty decent preview without rendering (looks like it does a 8FPS low res thingy) in premiere and with the FCP keyboard setting you can get F9 and F10 and a bunch of other shortcuts set up.

but the real question is: are people really switching, or just happy with a cheap AE and PS.

Used to love AVID but will probably end up selling it in the near future for the discount price when they go back to normal retail pricing.