The key driver of the high price is the nice case and neck.
It would be possible to make a cheaper all in one.
People have proven that they don't pay for cutting edge design. Only a minority does (us).
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Apple's Focus, Digital Music and More to Come?
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The key driver of the high price is the nice case and neck.
It would be possible to make a cheaper all in one.
People have proven that they don't pay for cutting edge design. Only a minority does (us).
People that want to upgrade a video card or add another hard drive are "prosumers" and should go after the entry level G5. People that Apple considers to be average consumers wouldn't dream of opening their computer box to tinker with it.
If an entry level G5 is too much, well, then mayne Apple is not for you. Apple has never marketed much towards bargain hunters and never will. They don't make cheap computers for the masses.
I for one, like it that way. Specs aside, when I am in Comp USA, I am amazed by the overall cheap look and feel of the PC boxes...
Are BMWs the fastest cars in the world? No, most of their models could be easily beaten by a Camaro Z-28. Do they get the best mileage? No. Do they cost twice as much as many other cars that can get you from A-B, more quickly and for less $$? Yes. Do they have a large market share compared to some cheaper brands? No.
Is BMW worried about all this? No. And most their owners aren't either.
Faster, slower, more expensive, cheaper, whatever. What matters is the user experience. That is why I, and the others that make up the 5% market share use and stay loyal to Apple.
I for one, am glad that Apple doesn't build some cheap, POS econo-computer to compete with all the PC boxes... I hope they never do.
If an entry level G5 is too much, well, then mayne Apple is not for you. Apple has never marketed much towards bargain hunters and never will. They don't make cheap computers for the masses.
I for one, like it that way. Specs aside, when I am in Comp USA, I am amazed by the overall cheap look and feel of the PC boxes...
Are BMWs the fastest cars in the world? No, most of their models could be easily beaten by a Camaro Z-28. Do they get the best mileage? No. Do they cost twice as much as many other cars that can get you from A-B, more quickly and for less $$? Yes. Do they have a large market share compared to some cheaper brands? No.
Is BMW worried about all this? No. And most their owners aren't either.
Faster, slower, more expensive, cheaper, whatever. What matters is the user experience. That is why I, and the others that make up the 5% market share use and stay loyal to Apple.
I for one, am glad that Apple doesn't build some cheap, POS econo-computer to compete with all the PC boxes... I hope they never do.
2004 will not be the year of the movie download.
It works for music due to "instant gratification." I can buy/download/burn an album faster than I could order it online, or go to the store.
I can also only buy certain tracks as opposed to the whole album. The quality is also excellent, with only very high end equipment being able to reveal any flaws.
But, with video...
To download and burn a high quality DVD, on par with what you could buy at the store, would take hours. By the time I was done, I could have driven to the store and back 10 times.
If they made the file small enough for a quick download, it would likely be small and compressed... suitable for viewing on a computer monitor only.
Why would I watch a movie at my desk when I have a HDTV with surround sound downstairs???
It works for music due to "instant gratification." I can buy/download/burn an album faster than I could order it online, or go to the store.
I can also only buy certain tracks as opposed to the whole album. The quality is also excellent, with only very high end equipment being able to reveal any flaws.
But, with video...
To download and burn a high quality DVD, on par with what you could buy at the store, would take hours. By the time I was done, I could have driven to the store and back 10 times.
If they made the file small enough for a quick download, it would likely be small and compressed... suitable for viewing on a computer monitor only.
Why would I watch a movie at my desk when I have a HDTV with surround sound downstairs???
"If an entry level G5 is too much, well, then mayne Apple is not for you. Apple has never marketed much towards bargain hunters and never will. They don't make cheap computers for the masses."
Really, it's about design too. I happen to really like the iMac design asthetic. The "big shiny metal box" next to a somewhat-mismatched flat screen isn't what I'm looking for.
I understand your point, and that's why I've bought Power Macs in the past. But I'd really like to buy an iMac for our living room, but I stubbornly refuse to buy another G4.
Really, it's about design too. I happen to really like the iMac design asthetic. The "big shiny metal box" next to a somewhat-mismatched flat screen isn't what I'm looking for.
I understand your point, and that's why I've bought Power Macs in the past. But I'd really like to buy an iMac for our living room, but I stubbornly refuse to buy another G4.
That smells of eliteism and that doesnt put a dime in Apples pocket.I hear that too much on these boards.No one has said that Apple should make some pos cheapo piece of junk.I only ask for competative specs and performance in my pricerange,whatever that pricerange happens to be.The consumer items Apple offers are extremly poor values.That is why they dont sell.You talk about the user experience.That isnt going to cut it anymore.Your preaching to the choir.XP wont win any awards but it is far beyond the unstable rubbish microsoft used to have.In other words the glory of osX isnt going to sway most buyers when the hardware is so overpriced and underspeced.Yet you say if you cant justify the extra money for one of the "big boy" towers then Maybe Apple isnt for you.Should we exit through the servents entrance?I'm sure Apple really appreciates you shooing customers away.The bottom line is sink or swim.If Apple cant or wont offer competative consumer items then maybe they should just get out of the consumer computer bussiness all together and concentrate on the pro line .
please no BMW/apple comparisiation.....
BMW/Mercedes has 2 digitmarketshare here (half of all taxis are E-class Mercedes)
does apple have this marketshare anywhere on the world ?...no
does apple has the same market share here in europe which BMW has in amerika ? no
Mercedes is #2 in sold cars here
BMW is #3...
BMW may be premium where you live..but they are in some places on the world pretty average
Apple is premium in the US but where are they pretty average ? ? ?
btw: Ford doesn't offer Mustangs or Camaros here ... in the country were it is allowed to drive as fast as your car can move ... 100mph is average speed and at that speed you get overhauled by mini-vans,jeeps and other 100 HP cars
nice one disney!!
Congradulations on your choice of digital rights management software - after all microsoft are so well known for their security, it wont be long before your giving your movies away.
FREE MOVIES ALL ROUND!!!...... but who is supplying the popcorn?
Congradulations on your choice of digital rights management software - after all microsoft are so well known for their security, it wont be long before your giving your movies away.
FREE MOVIES ALL ROUND!!!...... but who is supplying the popcorn?
Re: Re: Re: more Macs
Exactly. It would be very dumb to have to ship computers with old OS. Either they have a dual OS (32/64) or they will do that only when they have an all G5 line.
Daschund
Exactly. It would be very dumb to have to ship computers with old OS. Either they have a dual OS (32/64) or they will do that only when they have an all G5 line.
Daschund
DELL WTF
WHAt vis wrong w/ tyou recomending a dell my god your not a true mac user or you wouldnt have ever reccomended winte
Re: G6...
the 980 will not be g6 it will be another rev of g5 more than one chip was used under g4
Re: DELL WTF
Did you mean to say:
Based upon your attitude, usage (or lack there of) of punctuation and capitalization, and upon the childish nature of your user name, I would assume that you are 12 years old. Furthermore, you are either a spoiler Windows brat that is trolling and have never touched a Mac, or you are a spoiled Mac brat. I am sorry if I have misjudged you, and you do not fit in this category. If that is so, perhaps you should review your posts and exam ways to make them sound more intelligent and less ridiculous. (For starters, try correct punctuation and capitalization; it goes a long way
)
I've been using Mac's since our first Apple IIc. We've had that, Classic, LC II, 6320CD, Quicksilver G4, and now I have a 15 inch Aluminum book at college. Both my grade school and high school's used Macs.
I hadn't even touched a PC up until this year (as my college is nearly PC exclusive). Since I am more comfortable on a Mac, I do personal work on a Mac, but I'll admit that PCs are better than Macs at some things, just as Macs are better than PCs at some things. To blanket state that "winte[sic]" are useless is a gross misjudgment.
Did you mean to say:
Based upon your attitude, usage (or lack there of) of punctuation and capitalization, and upon the childish nature of your user name, I would assume that you are 12 years old. Furthermore, you are either a spoiler Windows brat that is trolling and have never touched a Mac, or you are a spoiled Mac brat. I am sorry if I have misjudged you, and you do not fit in this category. If that is so, perhaps you should review your posts and exam ways to make them sound more intelligent and less ridiculous. (For starters, try correct punctuation and capitalization; it goes a long way
)I've been using Mac's since our first Apple IIc. We've had that, Classic, LC II, 6320CD, Quicksilver G4, and now I have a 15 inch Aluminum book at college. Both my grade school and high school's used Macs.
I hadn't even touched a PC up until this year (as my college is nearly PC exclusive). Since I am more comfortable on a Mac, I do personal work on a Mac, but I'll admit that PCs are better than Macs at some things, just as Macs are better than PCs at some things. To blanket state that "winte[sic]" are useless is a gross misjudgment.
Re: Re: Re: I'm sick of the 'I need a G5 imac'
Is that so difficult to believe? Just because I use a Mac doesn't mean I'm not capable of building a PC. I've built PC's for about 10 years. I only became a Mac user two years ago. And I can say in the consumer line, Apple doesn't have anything that compares with the speed of a $500 PC. And don't tell me about user experience. It doesn't make up for the price difference.
Is that so difficult to believe? Just because I use a Mac doesn't mean I'm not capable of building a PC. I've built PC's for about 10 years. I only became a Mac user two years ago. And I can say in the consumer line, Apple doesn't have anything that compares with the speed of a $500 PC. And don't tell me about user experience. It doesn't make up for the price difference.
Re: Re: Re: Re: more Macs
Then why should anyone buy a G5 PowerMac at all? Apple marketed the 64-bit experience right from the beginiing. They should deliver it. Frankly, I paid to have it before the rest of you. I should get it before the rest of you. Buy a luxury car with stuff you can't get in a Chevy, you get the stuff the Chevy don't have. Sometime in the future, the Chevy will have the formerly new stuff. But then the luxury car will have something that the rest don't. It's not being a snob, that's just life.
You pay more, you should get more.
Then why should anyone buy a G5 PowerMac at all? Apple marketed the 64-bit experience right from the beginiing. They should deliver it. Frankly, I paid to have it before the rest of you. I should get it before the rest of you. Buy a luxury car with stuff you can't get in a Chevy, you get the stuff the Chevy don't have. Sometime in the future, the Chevy will have the formerly new stuff. But then the luxury car will have something that the rest don't. It's not being a snob, that's just life.
You pay more, you should get more.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: more Macs
I am fairly sure that one day you will be able to run a true 64-bit OS X on your G5, but it won't be 10.4, and if it comes before 2006 I'll bet you there'll be a version available for G3s and G4s.
WM
They are. Photoshop runs way better on the G5 and you can put more than 2 GB of RAM in it.
Look, no company--even Apple--would survive obsoleting their computers (OS-wise) less than a year after they were introduced. Ain't gonna happen. If Apple's still making any G4s in 2005 (which is somewhat likely), then I can guarantee you that 10.5 at the very least will run on them--and probably the upgrade after that.
I am fairly sure that one day you will be able to run a true 64-bit OS X on your G5, but it won't be 10.4, and if it comes before 2006 I'll bet you there'll be a version available for G3s and G4s.
WM
Someone a while ago said that they felt Apple had to do one of two things:
1. Lower prices to reflect low speeds
2. Increase speeds to reflect higher sprices
A lot of people are somehow trying to argue against or for the lower prices. Here's something to keep in mind: when the sale prices is constant, then there is an implicit, continuous price reduction equal to the inflation rate. So, for a $2000 computer, and inflation of 2%, then you are "saving" $40 at the end of the year. I'm not saying that's a lot of money, but just reminding you to factor that in. I personally think that a computer model to drop by 10% over its 6 month life-cycle, to reflect the depreciation rates of technological equipment. Usually this happens at the very end of the life-cycle, to clea channels, etc.
But, I think that the approach of giving higher specs for the higher price, is more in line with what consumers expect from a company like Apple. Part of what's tied their hands is that all the consumer machines are small form factor, or integrated form factor, so they couldn't just release a stripped down G5, or it would have reduced sales of eMac, iMac. Well, they should have bitten the bullet and let the market decide their fate, while having something else that would sell.
I myself bought an old G3 iMac, as my switcher box. Almost immediately I found how annoying it is to not be able to attach a larger monitor to it. Furthermore there's limited expansion, since the USB is 1.1 not 2.0, there's no firewire, and no way to upgrade the CPU or video card or monitor. Ok, I understand that most consumers don't upgrade, so tough luck to me. But, if I had been able to upgrade at least ONE of these things, then that would have been more palatable. And all of the internal expandability issues remain with the current Consumer options. The real reason why I found myself in this position was because of the lack of prosumer options, due to the rigid enforcement of Consumer, Professional divisions. Basically, the only option for a Prosumer is to get a secondhand Professional box. That's just not smart for a company to rely on people buying its products second-hand, instead of selling them what they need directly. And I think the result of that problem here, is that many enthusiests (rumor people, reporters, savvy people who guide others' buying decisions) are prosumers, and so the people who are most vocal are also the most negative about Apple.
- Mark Collette
1. Lower prices to reflect low speeds
2. Increase speeds to reflect higher sprices
A lot of people are somehow trying to argue against or for the lower prices. Here's something to keep in mind: when the sale prices is constant, then there is an implicit, continuous price reduction equal to the inflation rate. So, for a $2000 computer, and inflation of 2%, then you are "saving" $40 at the end of the year. I'm not saying that's a lot of money, but just reminding you to factor that in. I personally think that a computer model to drop by 10% over its 6 month life-cycle, to reflect the depreciation rates of technological equipment. Usually this happens at the very end of the life-cycle, to clea channels, etc.
But, I think that the approach of giving higher specs for the higher price, is more in line with what consumers expect from a company like Apple. Part of what's tied their hands is that all the consumer machines are small form factor, or integrated form factor, so they couldn't just release a stripped down G5, or it would have reduced sales of eMac, iMac. Well, they should have bitten the bullet and let the market decide their fate, while having something else that would sell.
I myself bought an old G3 iMac, as my switcher box. Almost immediately I found how annoying it is to not be able to attach a larger monitor to it. Furthermore there's limited expansion, since the USB is 1.1 not 2.0, there's no firewire, and no way to upgrade the CPU or video card or monitor. Ok, I understand that most consumers don't upgrade, so tough luck to me. But, if I had been able to upgrade at least ONE of these things, then that would have been more palatable. And all of the internal expandability issues remain with the current Consumer options. The real reason why I found myself in this position was because of the lack of prosumer options, due to the rigid enforcement of Consumer, Professional divisions. Basically, the only option for a Prosumer is to get a secondhand Professional box. That's just not smart for a company to rely on people buying its products second-hand, instead of selling them what they need directly. And I think the result of that problem here, is that many enthusiests (rumor people, reporters, savvy people who guide others' buying decisions) are prosumers, and so the people who are most vocal are also the most negative about Apple.
- Mark Collette
On the other hand, this keeps the value of a used products relatively high. In turn this makes past consumers more likely to upgrade because they know that they can get good $ for their old machine, and that it will be possible to sell the new one when its time come.
One last factor that should be brought into the discussion is that buyers of models that are sold for long period of time usually get a better product. Example: current buyers of the 15" powerbook no longer experience whitespots/letch issues. While the price/spec did not change, there are revisions to the product, and current buyers take advantage of them. This can be viewed as a "discount".
I guess I'm missing something fundamental. It wouldn't be the first time. But, why shouldn't Apple have a 64-bit OS before all of their machines are 64-bit capable? Windows will have one and it will run on 64-bit machines. If you don't have a 64-bit machine, buy one if it fits your means. Or, use the 32-bit version of the OS. It's like saying that current Porsche owners can't drive fast until all the Audis and VWs have similarly capable engines and tires. Yes, some apps run faster on the G5 already. That's great! I'm sure if a true 64-bit OS X comes out, a 32-bit version will be there.
I suspect this arguement will be somewhat moot, though. By the time a 64-bit OS X is out, we'll have faster G5s and iMacs (and PBs?) will have slower versions of them. Maybe even an eMac.
But, why shouldn't Apple have a 64-bit OS before all of their machines are 64-bit capable? Windows will have one and it will run on 64-bit machines. If you don't have a 64-bit machine, buy one if it fits your means. Or, use the 32-bit version of the OS. It's like saying that current Porsche owners can't drive fast until all the Audis and VWs have similarly capable engines and tires. Yes, some apps run faster on the G5 already. That's great! I'm sure if a true 64-bit OS X comes out, a 32-bit version will be there.I suspect this arguement will be somewhat moot, though. By the time a 64-bit OS X is out, we'll have faster G5s and iMacs (and PBs?) will have slower versions of them. Maybe even an eMac.
as a MAC 'newbie' I am amazed at how many self professed long time users have so little patience with what appears to an ongoing refrain that Steve Jobs isn't cranking out the upgrades fast enough (I.E. the iMac).....here's a tip from someone who has just come in from the 'PC cold.'....the updates are out there only its ALL in the software as in iLife '04 with garageband......point is Steve-0 (as I see he affectionately called) is giving us all the ability to go and knock our selves out from the creativity side of things...that's what software is all about....so you want an 'upgrade'?...rip some original material in garageband, drop into iTunes, slam it onto an iDVD as background music for the last vaca in Hawaii and there you go...as I see it, the 'upgrades' are endless as apposed to not there 'quick enough'.......just an 'Observation'.......rock on.....in_my_head.........'newbie'...........
........
The problem is when you need a new machine to be able to run all that new software as fast as you would like, and the price/performance ratio of available options is insufficient.
You see, all of the (3) computers that I use are all <= 400 MHz, which is mostly sufficient for what I need on a daily basis. But, I've seen all the cool audio, video and gaming things that people with modern machines can do, and so I really want to upgrade so that I can do all of that too. So, when 2GHz is in consumer, or in second-hand professional, machines, then I will upgrade. With dual 2GHz in the pro line for months and months, there's been no excuse (from my point of view) for the lack of single 2 GHz in some consumer offering. Although, I will never buy an all-in-one machine for myself again, but perhaps for my girlfriend.
- Mark Collette