Apple's Glass Jaw revealed by Steam VR test

MacVidCards

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The Occulus Rift "test" just matched your hardware against a list

Steam VR test actually renders a set of images and checks for dropped frames, etc.

And while a $10,000.00 FLAGSHIP Maxed Out Mac Pro will only get you a middle grade, using a bottom of the barrel Mini with a Titan-X will get you top honors.

So the Flagship will be restricted to average stuff, while the Mini with Titan-X can run it all.

Really think about this, Apple has been using excuses and PR folks posting shill nonsense to distract everyone from reality, but reality has come home to roost.

Apple has allowed themselves to make some thoroughly second rate computer systems.

Will be adding some images, they will be shocking. Here are some numbers until then.

12 Core cMP with Titan-X gets full complaince, a 10 score.

12 Core nMP with D300 gets a .1, complete fail. (this is LITERALLY 1/100 of the cMP score)

Base Mini with a Titan-X eGPU gets a "high Fidelity" passing grade.

nMP with a GTX780 eGPU gets a 3.1, in the "yellow" area, mid grade.

nMP with a Fury Nano eGPU gets a 6.3, in the green "Full Fidelity" range, something the Dual D700s can't do.

I am fairly certain that each and every Apple product (as shipped) scores in the yellow or red ranges. The only Macs that get into the green are the ones that get upgraded. A $500 Mini can be made to leave a $10,000.00 Mac Pro in the weeds for much less $$$.

VR is the future. No way around it. Making weak kneed computers that are only useful for posting puppy pix on facebook doesn't cut it.

Note the 4.0 Ghz iMac with 395 is from from iMac section of this board. The D700score is from a poster in this section of board. Neither top-of-the-line Mac got into the green like a entry level Mini did with an eGPU.

Can't wait to hear the appologists spin this one.

(And by the way, that D300 test where the blue line stays flat at the bottom, it's just like if you were on a heart monitor at the hospital, a flat line is dead.)

"We recommend upgrading your graphics card" is a rather cruel irony.
 
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PhiLLoW

macrumors 6502
May 31, 2014
324
184
We get it, you don't like the new Mac Pro. Do we really need yet another thread with the same arguments re-posted in it?
Read the thread and was all like "wow this sounds pretty much like a circle jerk of a cMP fanboy" scrolled up....yep...macvidcards at it again.

I don't want to sound rude but you're pretty much a tech version of a vegan who has to share every bad article about meat he finds to justify his lifestyle. We get it. you don't eat meat. That's ok.

If you don't like it. Don't buy it.
 

handheldgames

macrumors 68000
Apr 4, 2009
1,784
1,041
Pacific NW, USA
A great take away, further exposing a gaping hole in Apple's non-mobile strategy. Whilst the push of higher density screens and faster mobile GPU's are the darlings of countless industry pundits, I couldn't agree more that Apple has just been served a good helping of "Where's the beef!". With my cMP cheese grater in tote, I'm going to enjoy this thread as much as watching the Republicans SQUIRM in disbelief on Fox news.
 

bokkow

macrumors 6502
May 3, 2012
296
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Haha, even my GTX 680 is capable (though only just in all fairness of course). It does seem like this VR test is Nvidia optimised?



However, I only care for Metal Gear Solid V playing fluently and the occasional CAD application for work purposes, so I love this card value-for-bucks-wise
 
Jul 4, 2015
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Haha, even my GTX 680 is capable (though only just in all fairness of course). It does seem like this VR test is Nvidia optimised?



However, I only care for Metal Gear Solid V playing fluently and the occasional CAD application for work purposes, so I love this card value-for-bucks-wise
Putting this subject into correct context. None of these Macs were developed with VR or Steam in mind. Most PCs on the market aren't either. Consider also that no computer exists today that can handle VR when it is truly reaches its potential with retina resolution and wireless.

So it's not Apple's fault at all. If they are interested in VR they will bring their solution to market.
 

Demigod Mac

macrumors 6502a
Apr 25, 2008
795
246
So it's not Apple's fault at all. If they are interested in VR they will bring their solution to market.
Might be our only hope. https://www.macrumors.com/2016/01/29/apple-virtual-reality-headset/

Will be interesting to see how the clash between Apple's endless pursuit of "smaller, lighter, thinner, energy efficient!" devices vs AMD's power-hungry, space-heater GPUs pans out. When (if ever) will Apple cave and go back to Nvidia? Only if the engineers are allowed to choose what parts go in the products and not the bean-counters.
 

h9826790

macrumors G5
Apr 3, 2014
14,496
7,027
Hong Kong
Haha, even my GTX 680 is capable (though only just in all fairness of course). It does seem like this VR test is Nvidia optimised?



However, I only care for Metal Gear Solid V playing fluently and the occasional CAD application for work purposes, so I love this card value-for-bucks-wise
May I know if your card is the 2G card or the 4G card?

My 7950 sits at the middle of the yellow bar. I guess the 680 should do better. However, I realise that all my 3G VRAM was fully utilised during the test. So, I would like to know if VR really that VRAM demanding.
 

bokkow

macrumors 6502
May 3, 2012
296
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Nah, just don't care MVC, I think it is an interesting topic and no one can really deny Apple using 2012 technology in their current top tier product as it is a fact that the AMD Tahiti architecture was released as of january 2012. They lost touch with their pro-users and Apple could turn this around but I'm guessing that investing in this department does not outweigh return on investment in other fields.

On the other hand, this leaves a gap that you are making use of now as well. If all was well right out of the factory I think that demand for better GPU's would be lower :)

Thunderbolt 3 is the way forward as I see it. Full PCI-e 16x 3.0 bandwidth external GPU, possibly inside a next gen 4/5K Thunderbolt Display. You could connect a next generation Mac Pro to it for most CPU cores but you might just as well connect a Mac Mini, MacBook Pro or even MacBook to it. External graphics is where we're heading I guess and hope

@h9826790: 4GB version and flashed. I'll try again tomorrow. But still I really don't care about synthetic benchmarks. It wouldnt matter if it was in the bottom red as long as it does what I want to do with my machine I'm happy. VR is not a hype I'm participating in, it looks ridicule and I don't like the effect. For that matter; I also don't like 3D and curved displays either for example, just pointless technology in my opinion.
 
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h9826790

macrumors G5
Apr 3, 2014
14,496
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Hong Kong
Might be our only hope. https://www.macrumors.com/2016/01/29/apple-virtual-reality-headset/

Will be interesting to see how the clash between Apple's endless pursuit of "smaller, lighter, thinner, energy efficient!" devices vs AMD's power-hungry, space-heater GPUs pans out. When (if ever) will Apple cave and go back to Nvidia? Only if the engineers are allowed to choose what parts go in the products and not the bean-counters.
May be their secret team is working on how to put the iPad pro inside the VR headset, and then Tim can say to the public that "It just work!" :p
 
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MH01

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MVC, this is getting boring to be honest , problem is that you have an agenda to push your products at the same time as stating the obvious , being that Apple does and had never build a gaming system.

Look, if looked at your offering for the cMP, and frankly find it useless, if I wanted to game , I would not waste money on cMP + high end over priced card with custom firmware , I'd build a dedicated gaming machine for the same price running 3-4 Highend GPUs, that would blow anything that can be put together using a Mac side.

I have a new Mac Pro for a week, and damn it's an impressive piece of tech ! Be stupid to expect to game on it , I have a three year old gaming PC that still blows a CMP with an upgraded GPU away.
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And here we have the lowliest of the low, An entry level Mini, 1.4 Ghz CPU and 4GB of RAM. Does have faster drives inside, and of course a little help from a Titan-X.

Leaves the $10,000.00 12 Core D700 6,1 in the weeds.
Who cares ?? The complete lack of games on the Mac side of the fence may also give you an idea how much of the industry also cares!

Do you understand for which applications a workstation is build for ? Shock horror a high end GPU beats a workstation card.....is the pope Catholic ?

Run one of your cards 24/7 and it will die. People don't pay top £££ for speed without reliability . Hence why a Xeon is a lot slower than a OC'd gaming cpu.....your comparing a gaming GPU to a workstation GPU.... Move on!
 

Hank Carter

macrumors 6502
Oct 1, 2015
337
742
Thunderbolt 3 is the way forward as I see it. Full PCI-e 16x 3.0 bandwidth external GPU, possibly inside a next gen 4/5K Thunderbolt Display. You could connect a next generation Mac Pro to it for most CPU cores but you might just as well connect a Mac Mini, MacBook Pro or even MacBook to it. External graphics is where we're heading I guess and hope


How are they going to stick a space heater of a GPU in an iMac or Thunderbolt Display, when they can't even properly cool a mobile GPU / CPU in the current 5k iMac?

In order to make the equivalent of a Titan work in an iMac they would have to add vents and additional fans to a thicker (gasp!) design. Given the mindset of 'form over function' and 'Thinness Über Alles!' that seems to rule Cupertino these days that's pretty unlikely to happen anytime soon.
 

MH01

Suspended
Feb 11, 2008
12,107
9,298
MVC, this is getting boring to be honest , problem is that you have an agenda to push your products at the same time as stating the obvious , being that Apple does and had never build a gaming system.

Look, if looked at your offering for the cMP, and frankly find it useless, if I wanted to game , I would not waste money on cMP + high end over priced card with custom firmware , I'd build a dedicated gaming machine for the same price running 3-4 Highend GPUs, that would blow anything that can be put together using a Mac side.

I have a new Mac Pro for a week, and damn it's an impressive piece of tech ! Be stupid to expect to game on it , I have a three year old gaming PC that still blows a CMP with an upgraded GPU away.
[doublepost=1456625991][/doublepost]

Who cares ?? The complete lack of games on the Mac side of the fence may also give you an idea how much of the industry also cares!

Do you understand for which applications a workstation is build for ? Shock horror a high end GPU beats a workstation card.....is the pope Catholic ?

Run one of your cards 24/7 and it will die. People don't pay top £££ for speed without reliability . Hence why a Xeon is a lot slower than a OC'd gaming cpu.....your comparing a gaming GPU to a workstation GPU.... Move on!
OMG!! Apples 10k FLAGSHIP workstation is average for a TASK it was never designed for!!! WOW!

Can I ask how well your cards perform as workstation cards??? Worse than average ! OMG MacVidCards are awful as workstation cards, he does not care....

Do you understand what the Mac Pro is for ?
 

bokkow

macrumors 6502
May 3, 2012
296
232
The Netherlands
How are they going to stick a space heater of a GPU in an iMac or Thunderbolt Display, when they can't even properly cool a mobile GPU / CPU in the current 5k iMac?

In order to make the equivalent of a Titan work in an iMac they would have to add vents and additional fans to a thicker (gasp!) design. Given the mindset of 'form over function' and 'Thinness Über Alles!' that seems to rule Cupertino these days that's pretty unlikely to happen anytime soon.
Why? Only Titan X qualifies as a good GPU? Current mobile 970/980 chips are nearly as fast as their desktop counterparts and can do with relatively little cooling (certainly without an additional 4GHz i7 next to it). The main issue here is Apple sticking with heat producing AMD chips because: cheap.
 

Hank Carter

macrumors 6502
Oct 1, 2015
337
742
Why? Only Titan X qualifies as a good GPU?
I was using the Titan X as an example of a popular high end GPU.

Current mobile 970/980 chips are nearly as fast as their desktop counterparts and can do with relatively little cooling (certainly without an additional 4GHz i7 next to it). The main issue here is Apple sticking with heat producing AMD chips because: cheap.
The mobile GPU in the iMac is no competition for a $1000 workstation card. They also don't have enough RAM for high end work (4GB vs 8-12GB). Under load the GPU in the current iMac runs about 80 C. That's not healthy in the long run. I assume you've seen the size of the heatsinks and fans on a workstation class GPU. There is no way of keeping something like that cool in an iMac case with no vents and a tiny fan blowing out the bottom .
 
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throAU

macrumors 604
Feb 13, 2012
6,728
4,367
Perth, Western Australia
A great take away, further exposing a gaping hole in Apple's non-mobile strategy. Whilst the push of higher density screens and faster mobile GPU's are the darlings of countless industry pundits, I couldn't agree more that Apple has just been served a good helping of "Where's the beef!". With my cMP cheese grater in tote, I'm going to enjoy this thread as much as watching the Republicans SQUIRM in disbelief on Fox news.
Might be our only hope. https://www.macrumors.com/2016/01/29/apple-virtual-reality-headset/

Will be interesting to see how the clash between Apple's endless pursuit of "smaller, lighter, thinner, energy efficient!" devices vs AMD's power-hungry, space-heater GPUs pans out. When (if ever) will Apple cave and go back to Nvidia? Only if the engineers are allowed to choose what parts go in the products and not the bean-counters.

AMDs GPUs are actually really powerful and held back by software, especially in multi GPU configurations. Google for AMD directx12.

Once apple gets metal out there properly and apps support it things may look a lot different.
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View attachment 618743

And here we have the lowliest of the low, An entry level Mini, 1.4 Ghz CPU and 4GB of RAM. Does have faster drives inside, and of course a little help from a Titan-X.

Leaves the $10,000.00 12 Core D700 6,1 in the weeds.
Because there's no way you can plug and external GPU into a pro.

If only it had some high speed external connectivity...
 
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bokkow

macrumors 6502
May 3, 2012
296
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The Netherlands
@Hank Carter I only took GTX 970/980 M as an example of a popular high end GPU...

I guess you've seen mobile workstation GPU's as well like the Quadro M5000M? Same TDP. Heck, you could use the whole aluminum enclosure as a giant heatsink.

Where there is a will, there is a way. Currently it seems like there is no will or at least no interest in innovating/developing their true Pro-targeted products. Most probably because elsewhere return on investment is much higher (dual camera iPhone galore!!1!)
 
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