Apple's In-House 5G Modem Work Faces Further Delays

[HiVolt]

I don’t understand why building a modem is so challenging. I wonder if it is more of a patent legal obstacle course rather than a technical hurdle.

It's exactly that, building a cell modem thats good but does not violate patents - which qualcomm sure has a crapload.

I honestly don't understand why Apple is wasting their time.

 

[Ceecephous]

Thank you God. Apple tried once with the in house intel modems on 11 & 11 pro and failed.

 

[bumblebritches5]

I don’t understand why building a modem is so challenging. I wonder if it is more of a patent legal obstacle course rather than a technical hurdle.

It’s technical, not legal troubles.

Modems are fundamentally analog, not digital.

It’s a whole different beast from digital chips.

 

[CrysisDeu]

Cellular modems are incredibly complex devices that have to operate with many constraints. It's absolutely challenging, and a different world than building CPUs and GPUs.

Frankly I wish Apple would stay out of this, and keep using Qualcomm chipsets. The last time they tried to move away from Qualcomm (to Intel) performance suffered. I really don't trust anyone but Qualcomm for this sort of thing these days.

If we just talk about performance, you can also trust Huawei

 

[kalafalas]

Apple started using intel modems with the iPhone 7 not the 11, there was a whole scandal about some coming with intel and some with Qualcomm and there being a discrepancy in performance. This continued with the X and 8, and then with the XS they went all-intel. They did go back to Qualcomm with the 12

 

[jz0309]

Oh, and those who casually toss around "Apple should just buy Qualcomm..."

QCOM's market cap is over $145B. That would make such a buyout, even if executed primarily as a stock-swap, one of the largest takeovers ever attempted, given that a straight-up buyout usually commands a 1.5 to 2x value multiplier. That would be a deeply financially stupid thing for Apple to do (setting side the guaranteed antitrust issues). There is literally no upside to a move like that.

Worth remembering that the largest buyout Apple ever executed was Beats for just over $3B.

and it would never get regulatory approval ...

 

[hoodafoo]

I don't get it.. what's so hard about designing a modem? USRobotics managed to do it back in the 80's

 

[kalafalas]

Cellular modems are incredibly complex devices that have to operate with many constraints. It's absolutely challenging, and a different world than building CPUs and GPUs.

Frankly I wish Apple would stay out of this, and keep using Qualcomm chipsets. The last time they tried to move away from Qualcomm (to Intel) performance suffered. I really don't trust anyone but Qualcomm for this sort of thing these days.

The main benefit here would be they could integrate it directly into the A series package, with plenty of benefits being integrated tightly with everything else and reducing board space quite a lot

 

[0339327]

Apple is doing so much to avoid third party hardware. Apple Silicon, T2, and modems.

I wish they’d spend as much R&D at fixing their software.

 

[coolfactor]

I don’t understand why building a modem is so challenging. I wonder if it is more of a patent legal obstacle course rather than a technical hurdle.

Definitely a patent-based issue. Their hands are tied with what they can do. Even if they come up with the exact same solution independently, if it resembles a patent, they are accused of theft. It's a crazy world that we live in.

I'm confident that Apple will figure this out. What they need to do is stop focusing on 5G and start focusing on 6G. Leapfrog the problem.

 

[coolfactor]

Apple is doing so much to avoid third party hardware. Apple Silicon, T2, and modems.

I wish they’d spend as much R&D at fixing their software.

Tell us 3 core software issues that impact you every day.

 

[nutmac]

Apple shouldn't postpone the 4th generation iPhone SE for in-house modem. iPhone SE (3rd generation) will be 2 years old by coming spring, and the iPhone 6 design is getting very long in the tooth.

 

[coolfactor]

The main benefit here would be they could integrate it directly into the A series package, with plenty of benefits being integrated tightly with everything else and reducing board space quite a lot

I doubt the modem will ever become part of the SiP. One of the major challenges that they are facing involves heat, and they would not want to add another heat source to the SiP.

 

[kiensoy]

Modems are hard.

 

[GrumpyDonkey]

I don’t understand why building a modem is so challenging. I wonder if it is more of a patent legal obstacle course rather than a technical hurdle.

Qualcomm own a large proprtion of the industry patents.

 

[kc9hzn]

Qualcomm stated years ago that they didn’t see how Apple could make a modem that didn’t infringe on Qualcomm’s patents.
Likely the long delay by Apple is for this very reason: they keep hitting roadblocks trying to work around Qualcomm patents.

(My guess)

Probably not wrong. Of course, that raises the issue of Qualcomm either not releasing standards essentials patents under FRAND terms or Qualcomm playing hardball with patent licensing. Either way, it’s obnoxious when standards require third party patents, instead of the standardization body operating a patent pool (MPEG) or relinquishing patents.

 

[kc9hzn]

Modems are hard.

Nah, more like Lawyers Are Wimps.

 

[jz0309]

The main benefit here would be they could integrate it directly into the A series package, with plenty of benefits being integrated tightly with everything else and reducing board space quite a lot

and that would result in a very large die/package and thus would not really be beneficial ...

 

[neutralguy]

Probably not wrong. Of course, that raises the issue of Qualcomm either not releasing standards essentials patents under FRAND terms or Qualcomm playing hardball with patent licensing. Either way, it’s obnoxious when standards require third party patents, instead of the standardization body operating a patent pool (MPEG) or relinquishing patents.

And what makes you think that it's only the standard issue, maybe there is some algorithm that is patented. And no other algorithm can substitute it.

 

[Chuckeee]

If apple came out with their modem chip tomorrow, would you want to purchase the first platform that incorporated it?

I would be incredibly dubious, and would avoid that first product like a plague.

Maybe the 2nd or 3rd rev, after it had proven itself extensively in the field

 

[kc9hzn]

And what makes you think that it's only the standard issue, maybe there is some algorithm that is patented. And no other algorithm can substitute it.

Well, it would be an algorithm required for the implementation of the standard, so it’s six of one, half a dozen of the other.

 

[mithion]

At this point, given how difficult it has been to produce said modem how much cash I'm sure they are burning to try and make it happen, how much money are they actually expecting to save since this was largely all about money to begin with? What are the chances that we'll see some small cost savings passed on to the consumer for using the "cheaper" apple modem? I say chances are zero but I'd love to be proven wrong.

 

[ToyoCorollaGR]

can’t apple just buy Qualcomm?

No

 

[Westside guy]

I don't get it.. what's so hard about designing a modem? USRobotics managed to do it back in the 80's

AT&F&C1&D2&K3%C0 NO CARRIER...

 

[cateye]

I don't get it.. what's so hard about designing a modem? USRobotics managed to do it back in the 80's

That sad part is, only us fossils will even know what you're referring to. Anyone under the age of... 30 probably? ... is all like, "wat. robotic modem?"

That secondary handshake sound that starts at the :22 second mark always felt like you were entering hyperspace.