As anyone who develops software and applications knows, sometimes you have to take some steps back to move forward. Particularly when starting over with a new platform which Apple just did with iWork. They must have a lot planned to have rewritten the apps from the ground up. That takes a massive amount of effort, time, and expense.
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Apple's iWork for iCloud Apps Gain New Collaboration Features
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As anyone who develops software and applications knows, sometimes you have to take some steps back to move forward. Particularly when starting over with a new platform which Apple just did with iWork. They must have a lot planned to have rewritten the apps from the ground up. That takes a massive amount of effort, time, and expense.
Still doesn't make the cut
I don't like Microsoft's monopoly on office applications any more than anybody else, but until I can reliably open MS Office files and have them look correct, and until documents I create in iWork look the same when others open them in Office, iWork simply isn't usable as a primary application.
I don't like Microsoft's monopoly on office applications any more than anybody else, but until I can reliably open MS Office files and have them look correct, and until documents I create in iWork look the same when others open them in Office, iWork simply isn't usable as a primary application.
No. Actually all Google has is some web apps. Much harder to do with real native desktop apps (Mac) syncing with the web and syncing with real native mobile applications (iOS). Google's so called cloud services are just web sites. They have a long way to go to catch up with what Apple is doing.
Syncing with just one platform (the web) is easy. And you're stuck with all the slowness and limitations of a browser. Native apps are much harder to do but better for the user and allows more choice.
Yes that is exactly what is going on with each new version of these apps and the OSX and iOS. Apple had to go back and build a universal format that would work on all three platforms, desktop, mobile and web. Because it's ground up a number of features have not been released with these versions but Apple has promised they are coming.
This is really a great thing.
look up "The Mythical Man Month", which observes that adding more people at a problem doesn't get you a better/faster implementation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mythical_Man-Month
Perhaps you did not notice, but Apple just updated every app as well as iOS and OSX.
There are a lot of people here defending the current iWork applications citing the fact that Apple would have had to build the suite 'From the Ground up' (I love it when people say that - so technical!) and it's a universal platform etc. New features are coming, and so on.
While this may be true, the fact remains that features and therefore workflow have been reduced in what is essentially a public beta program. If features are to be gradually added back in when it's possible to do it across platforms, then it's likely that the software wasn't ready for this new launch. There is no reason that the whole cross platform universal iWork project couldn't have waited until it was of equal value to the feature rich(er) previous versions.
Personally, I need to use iWork on my desktop today. I can live with not having iCloud and share features, web apps and iOS for the time being, but free or not the new iWork OSX implementation is severely lacking in functionality. The oversimplification of Numbers has crippled my workflow and costs me more time and effort sussing out complicated workarounds to simple UI or menu problems. And these are just the problems that can be found on a superficial level - some of the formatting and rendering problems are perhaps more critical.
I love Apple software - I generally use stock applications (Mail, Calendar, Safari etc) across the board. I always thought Numbers and Pages wiped the floor with MS Office personally, but this release is too beta and it's not funny.
BTW It reminds me of the MobileMe debacle, so please don't think I'm going all 'This wouldn't have happened under Jobs' on you.
If Apple have the faculty to fix this, and they are presumably aware of the problems, then perhaps they should have waited until the software was ready before crippling it.
And also, I'm not expecting that Apple can just throw resources at it and that's why they got it wrong. I think it's deeper than that; I think that from the developer stand point iWork was mistakenly simplified to get it to release as quickly as possible to showcase universal cloud based applications in the wild - no mean feat to be sure, but at the expense of a clear usability and feature set Apple's judgement and timing is clearly off this time.
Yes, you can use the previous versions, and I do. But defending Apple tooth and nail is a little blind and it doesn't change the fact that (shock-horror!) they actually got this one wrong.
While this may be true, the fact remains that features and therefore workflow have been reduced in what is essentially a public beta program. If features are to be gradually added back in when it's possible to do it across platforms, then it's likely that the software wasn't ready for this new launch. There is no reason that the whole cross platform universal iWork project couldn't have waited until it was of equal value to the feature rich(er) previous versions.
Personally, I need to use iWork on my desktop today. I can live with not having iCloud and share features, web apps and iOS for the time being, but free or not the new iWork OSX implementation is severely lacking in functionality. The oversimplification of Numbers has crippled my workflow and costs me more time and effort sussing out complicated workarounds to simple UI or menu problems. And these are just the problems that can be found on a superficial level - some of the formatting and rendering problems are perhaps more critical.
I love Apple software - I generally use stock applications (Mail, Calendar, Safari etc) across the board. I always thought Numbers and Pages wiped the floor with MS Office personally, but this release is too beta and it's not funny.
BTW It reminds me of the MobileMe debacle, so please don't think I'm going all 'This wouldn't have happened under Jobs' on you.
If Apple have the faculty to fix this, and they are presumably aware of the problems, then perhaps they should have waited until the software was ready before crippling it.
And also, I'm not expecting that Apple can just throw resources at it and that's why they got it wrong. I think it's deeper than that; I think that from the developer stand point iWork was mistakenly simplified to get it to release as quickly as possible to showcase universal cloud based applications in the wild - no mean feat to be sure, but at the expense of a clear usability and feature set Apple's judgement and timing is clearly off this time.
Yes, you can use the previous versions, and I do. But defending Apple tooth and nail is a little blind and it doesn't change the fact that (shock-horror!) they actually got this one wrong.
Shows Apple's priorities. Instead of making their crappy downgrade of the iWorks software for Mac at least equal to its predecessor they work on their iCloud version - which I assume no one who is seriously using iWork programs really cares much about. 
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Less talk and more action would be required to make me more confident.
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They work on the cloud version - not as I have seen on the software version. (EDIT: someone said they did but I am only changing to the new iWork if it's reported as a real UPgrade (no typo)
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Less talk and more action would be required to make me more confident.
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They work on the cloud version - not as I have seen on the software version. (EDIT: someone said they did but I am only changing to the new iWork if it's reported as a real UPgrade (no typo)
In which case you would have continued to used iWork 09 today while waiting for the new version.
So continue to use iWork 09.
Shows Apple's priorities. Instead of making their crappy downgrade of the iWorks software for Mac at least equal to its predecessor they work on their iCloud version - which I assume no one who is seriously using iWork programs really cares much about.
I heard that the same people who work on a web app also work on a desktop app, right?
And do people not understand that you don't go all out with the kitchen sink on a rewrite of a five year old piece of software? You build the core and then you add on with that... sheesh.
I disagree. Nothing has been removed from the Pages, Numbers, and Keynote you have been used to. They are still there. I see nothing lost from introducing these new apps and a lot gained. For people who don't have advanced needs, the apps are much easier to use and for the first time there is feature parity and a unified platform allowing them to actually work across platforms using the web versions as well as use iPhones and iPads without worrying about breaking formatting and messing up documents. Plus you can collaborate now in real time.
Not sure why you think holding all that back from people who don't need the extra features from the old apps is somehow a good thing. It's not like you can't keep using the old versions if there are features from it that you need.
Plus they get to get real feedback as they develop the new stuff rather than waiting an extra year or two and then just popping a "fully completed" version on everyone that may or may not be designers how customers want because there was no ongoing feedback from customers.
Sheesh - if you do an entirely new program maybe - but you do not release in my opinion a piece of software that is significantly dumbed down from the prior version as an update with tons of features suddenly missing, essential ones (rulers, customizable menu bar) and just cool ones (certain transitions). This is iWorks 6, following iWorks 5, so I and many other's assumed that it would be an improvement on the prior version and not destroying our tables and presentations. If they would have indicated it as iWork beta or iWork versus a to be announced iWork Pro we wouldn't complain.
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Still there? Menu bar not customizable any more, rulers now starting in the corner and not centered on the slide, transitions missing - shall I continue? I opened it once, looked at it. Closed the program, threw it out and got the 5er version back in my dock. And then I had to go into my back-ups to get the version of the presentation saved the day before as once opened its not backward compatible...
Again? I did read your post which came of as a rant, I just reminded you that a postponed release would have no effect on your work because in either case you would use iWork 09. So what is the problem exactly.
Look again. There is a long list of features that have been disabled, implemented badly, or just missing. And there are countless threads here on MR detailing them. Even Apple themselves admitted that they are going to have to address some of these omissions in a future update.
And downgrading software so it's suitable for "people who don't have advanced needs" is laughable. It's not a game! These apps are productivity apps. Numbers is (was) designed to crunch through data efficiently. In a business environment getting the job done wins out over superficial accessibility and adding unnecessary fluff.
There is a genuine user base who would prefer a powerful professional feature rich upgrade to being able to 'collaborate in real time'. Personally I can do without people collaborating (read: changing ****** around while I'm trying to finish the project) on my admin and marketing. It might fly when you're designing a birthday card, but for important proposals, invoices, and the like, who needs it?
Getting real feedback while they "develop new stuff" is simply another way of saying "we have no idea what people actually use this software for, so we're going to put it out there anyway and see what happens".
It's called beta testing, which is fine, but don't try to sell it to me as an upgrade. And yes, I'm aware it's Freeware, but that doesn't mean you're not being sold this BS.
The problem exactly is that while I can use iWork '09 RIGHT NOW, it will become obsolete. The upgrade to the new version is unusable for some people and it's apparent that the new direction that iWork is going is the wrong one.
People who use iWork, Numbers especially, know that at some point with compatibility issues and so forth iWork '09 will be dumped and the current offering doesn't deliver when it comes to productivity. If that doesn't change, then I have to look for alternatives, and sooner rather than later so I can build in a learning curve. If that alternative belongs to another ecosystem (e.g. Google or Microsoft etc, then I may have to reluctantly look at transferring towards that eco-system. I.e. I won't need to be tied into using Apple's software (Which has worked up to date). If I don't need to be tied in to Apple, OSX, iCloud, I might not need to keep my iPhone, buy from iTunes, or use Aperture over Lightroom for example.
This is what pro users have been talking about for some time. If Apple products and software gradually become easy access, universally friendly products then that's great. But if that comes at the expense of productivity, powerful focussed applications, and cohesiveness then the pros who just need things to work will find another solution, perhaps even away from Apple software or hardware.
Why is that process so hard to understand?
That's not how development works.
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Well, apparently 5 years wasn't enough!
Glassed Silver:mac
They haven't been working on it for 5 years.
It's the internet, so you don't have to believe anything at all. All I'm saying is Brooks's law and such doesn't apply to all development firms. I enjoy working with a small team but there is definitely a max amount of people that we would ever want.
And I was just trying to say that "throwing more developers at it" wouldn't have made it to where a rewrite didn't lose features. :|