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I hope the text book news is true. I'm sick and tired of the text book pubs and the professors ripping off the students with text book update that costs $$$ per book.

It's about time someone put these crooked business out of business.
 
In your world;

readers are E-ink,
only readers are appropriate for etextbooks;
hence, all etextbooks will be on readers, and any tablet with etextbooks on them will explode into a million tiny fragments from incompatibility.

yeah because readers are better for reading than on tablets.
 
A few things I think about with textbooks in general.
The grade school ( K-12) had old books. Some seemed "ancient" They took up large closets or classroom space. Were heavy and sometimes the locker wasn't near the class so you stocked up on books for various periods. Perhaps the savings on printing will help offset the price and schools won't need to worry" about books being written in, damaged or lost.
College somewhat stunk with high priced books then trying to sell back only to hear a new edition is printed for next semester…but this was the newest one last this semester!! Or seeing books with very rudimentary illustrations of animals or other things that can be updated more regularly with e-textbooks.

And I can see schools having the (oh so company-loving) monthly installment/rentals/leases for books where the school could basically pay for the books on monthly basis and then they'd be updated regularly. This way the publishers don't "lose" any money on buy it once and still good….it can be updated and thus current.
 
well, I guess you have come full circle

yeah because readers are better for reading than on tablets.

your first post:

"This is stupid. Digital Textbooks are only good with E-ink displays, otherwise you're gonna cause eye strain."

Nothing more to say on my end.
 
Ask The Students!

As a chemistry prof and tech enthusiast I am always on the look out for the next great thing and while this may be Apple's next great thing it will need something special to attract students.

There are already a number of electronic options out there, including regular ebooks, and none of them really offer anything compelling for someone who is happy with a paper book.

I just received a Kindle Touch for Christmas and have bought some Kindle books for it that were on sale, or I needed for my classes (I have been asked to give a presentation on how to study to the incoming first year students). In many cases, the books I looked at on the Kindle were more expensive than their paper counterparts. This is even more true on my iPad where the books were almost always more expensive.

This is a problem! While publishers say that there is more to a book than paper, it makes no sense that a digital edition would be more expensive than an electronic edition. From a student's perspective, this is a deal breaker because they have to buy the device and then pay more for the book, and if the system is not supporting all their classes they will still need to carry books.

An even bigger deal breaker is that students will not be able to re-sell the book once their classes are over. A typical New First Year Chemistry Textbook, and associated required "stuff," runs around $220 with a 35% bookstore markup. The required stuff, such as online codes and course notes are usually available separately but at such a premium there is little money saved by buying the text used or on Amazon (about $170) and the "stuff" on campus. However, students can sell that book back for around $50-100 if their timing is right. For courses without "stuff" the purchase of used and Amazon texts can amount to huge savings when you consider the ability to resell a book for $50-100.

This market does not exist in the digital world. Students "rent" books from the publisher at a small discount over the paper book, or can buy the book for an even smaller discount, and they currently get a poorly produced PDF (particularly with the CourseSmart group) that they cannot share and cannot view without logging in. This means the student's device must be on a network if they are to look at their book. This is a total crock. Inkling and kno are starting to develop a nice model where they take an existing textbook and make it more interactive. The problem is that the selection of texts is very limited on Inkling and the prices are not looking good. Kno charges $114 for students to RENT the book (Silberberg, 6th Ed) for six months. That barely covers two semesters and then it is GONE! They charge $146 for students to buy the book, while the hard copy from Amazon comes in at $172, Kindle eBook comes in at $130 although it does not actually work on the hardware kindle (only iPad and Computer). OR, you can buy new/used starting at $9 on Amazon.

For students who have limited amounts of cash, they are looking at cost for their required classes and not the technology cool factor.

As we know, if anyone can bring order to the chaos it will be Apple. Problem is that there are a lot of people who refuse to drink the Cool Aid and refuse to use anything Apple related. That is another potential problem.
 
This is great if true!

This is stupid. Digital Textbooks are only good with E-ink displays, otherwise you're gonna cause eye strain.

As opposed to the back strain my kids have lugging around a ton of heavy textbooks now! We had to buy my son a set of wheels for his backpack because he could not carry it. Its ridiculous.

Kids these days all have eye strain anyway playing video games, youtubing, texting and facebooking!
 
your first post:

"This is stupid. Digital Textbooks are only good with E-ink displays, otherwise you're gonna cause eye strain."

Nothing more to say on my end.

To some extent I agree because I do get more strain on my iPad than on my Kindle, but the problem is that most modern texts are not available on the Kindle because it does not support the high level of image quality. Have you looked at a modern undergraduate textbook these days? Many of the Science and Engineering texts are more like glossy Mags than serious books.
 
Nightmare

I work in a large School District. I think we are the 7th largest in CA now. We have thousands of iPads, but I have to tell you we hate them!

The hate is only due to one thing...iTunes! It's a nightmare to micromanage 30+ iPads through iTunes. If Apple is serious about using iPads in education they first need to create a backend management tool to use other then iTunes.

We need a tool that:
images/syncs 30+ iPads at once (100 at once would be good)
the restore process need to be changed so that it that does not remove profiles
better management of enterprise purchasing of apps
ability to create parent iTunes accounts with sub accounts under it
better saving features (we need a way to get the work off the iPads WebDAV doesn't cut it.)
we need to IP print from the iPads
they need to develop a way to store the text books in the cloud partially. That way we only download the chapters we are currently working on.


If they would do that it would work.
 
As opposed to the back strain my kids have lugging around a ton of heavy textbooks now! We had to buy my son a set of wheels for his backpack because he could not carry it. Its ridiculous.

Kids these days all have eye strain anyway playing video games, youtubing, texting and facebooking!

The problem here is that textbooks are getting bigger. Julia Burdge just released a chemistry text that is a full inch taller than all the other chemistry texts on my shelf, and she did not need to make it bigger. Some students I see around campus look like Mutant Ninja Turtles with their huge backpacks stuffed with books and laptops, and whatever else they stuff in them.
 
This is stupid. Digital Textbooks are only good with E-ink displays, otherwise you're gonna cause eye strain.

Depends. I have both an iPad and an e-ink Kindle, and have comfortably read several entire books on both. Any strain might potentially be caused by turning the iPad's display brightness up too high, or when there's bright lights directly behind me that might cause glare, or when trying to read the e-ink Kindle in poor lighting. So I don't do that.
 
To some extent I agree because I do get more strain on my iPad than on my Kindle, but the problem is that most modern texts are not available on the Kindle because it does not support the high level of image quality. Have you looked at a modern undergraduate textbook these days? Many of the Science and Engineering texts are more like glossy Mags than serious books.

I haven't. My question would be whether these textbooks are easier to learn from than less polished texts.

My point through all of this is that media and animation are beneficial to the learning process; virtual experiments for science and engineering are key to learning in my opinion. The problem is that these high quality etextbooks are nontrivial to create and curate.

Maybe Apple has a solution.
 
Ok, think about this: you are questioning the wisdom of the most valuable tech company in the world, with 80 billion dollars in the bank... Your questioning of this event reflect what mnany other companies do: questioning, and then when success strikes, copy like mad...
Yeah, how dare I? :rolleyes:
 
I work in a large School District. I think we are the 7th largest in CA now. We have thousands of iPads, but I have to tell you we hate them!

The hate is only due to one thing...iTunes! It's a nightmare to micromanage 30+ iPads through iTunes. If Apple is serious about using iPads in education they first need to create a backend management tool to use other then iTunes.

If they would do that it would work.

I wonder if this is some what related to the original idea that the iPad is a personal device and not a centrally managed device.

On approach would be for your school district, like many corporate entities, to hire someone to write the applications to handle this. There is nothing to stop someone from writing an uploading applications to the iPad. It just cannot go through iTunes. The problem here are the words "School District," which means you barely have the money to keep the people you have let alone hire computer programmers!

----------

I haven't. My question would be whether these textbooks are easier to learn from than less polished texts.
.

Can of worms alert! Do not get me started on this one! :D The less polished texts, as you put it, would also be a hell of a lot less expensive. Compare Linus Pauling's original General Chemistry textbook (http://www.amazon.com/General-Chemistry-Dover-Books/dp/0486656225) republished through dover. It is a B&W 9x5x2 book weighing less than 2lb, to the current version of Julia Burdges Book (http://www.amazon.com/Chemistry-Ato...=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1325623112&sr=1-2), which is 12x10x2 inch monster weighing over 6lb. Most of that space comes from color images because everyone (parents and publishers) think their students are visual learners who need this stuff when really they just need to put down the cell phone and do some work! :eek:

From a Chemist's perspective, virtual experiments should be banned. You learn nothing about the hazards of handling chemicals and equipment when you are playing with a computer.
 
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Why hasn't anyone mentioned the possibility of being able to read iBooks on any machine through iTunes, similar to how Amazon allows you to read their books on Macs, PCs, phones, tablets, even iOS devices.

Personally, I would like this since I could get away with reading books on my PC at work, since an iPad makes it obvious I am not working.
 
I wonder if this is some what related to the original idea that the iPad is a personal device and not a centrally managed device.

On approach would be for your school district, like many corporate entities, to hire someone to write the applications to handle this. There is nothing to stop someone from writing an uploading applications to the iPad. It just cannot go through iTunes. The problem here are the words "School District," which means you barely have the money to keep the people you have let alone hire computer programmers!

----------



Can of worms alert! Do not get me started on this one! :D The less polished texts, as you put it, would also be a hell of a lot less expensive. Compare Linus Pauling's original General Chemistry textbook (http://www.amazon.com/General-Chemistry-Dover-Books/dp/0486656225) republished through dover. It is a B&W 9x5x2 book weighing less than 2lb, to the current version of Julia Burdges Book (http://www.amazon.com/Chemistry-Ato...=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1325623112&sr=1-2), which is 12x10x2 inch monster weighing over 6lb. Most of that space comes from color images because everyone (parents and publishers) think their students are visual learners who need this stuff when really they just need to put down the cell phone and do some work! :eek:

From a Chemist's perspective, virtual experiments should be banned. You learn nothing about the hazards of handling chemicals and equipment when you are playing with a computer.

I don't think I ever carried a 6 pound book...

Virtual experiments aren't a substitute for real experiments, but I am of the opinion that they can be a learning tool. YMMV, and in this case does.
 
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I can see the textbook thing being huge. I'd have killed to replace the weight I carried around back in my undergrad for an iPad.

On a somewhat related topic, it'd be awesome if they created some kind of study bundle that included an Apple designed app to take notes. As much as I dig Notes Plus, I'd love an Apple solution that worked with iCloud.
 
If I am allowed to imagine,

NYC Board of Ed dictates the curriculum, buys the books, spends the money. So, the same board can hire one or two developers to come up with a good app, and maintain it. The kid is allowed to use the app to pick the books he/she will need for the semester (somewhat like the movie rental mode) at the end of the semester they will be retrieved automatically. Money can be used to pay for developers as well as licenses to publishers.

Multiply this by many more Boards of Ed, universities - you are talking big bucks being saved by publishers, schools and eventually students.

Many States are already using iPads in ther city council meetings. They are doing it to save money. They send out their agendas, work papers, amend them as many times as they need it without having to print and reprint.

Bill and Melinda Gates should give a helping hand to needy students. :D
 
...these digital textbooks would arguably do a lot in the way of lightening the load for college students to worry about carrying/selling later..

The physical load is just one factor of many.

Carrying books isn't hard; you almost never carry more than one or two at a time. But unless Apple can drive prices down below $70 for even the most expensive books, it'll still be cheaper to buy the books and sell them back.

Only 1-2 books at a time = light course load. Must have taken you 8 years to get through high school, and another 12 to get through college :D

But more seriously, the "resale" element of eBooks for students is an important factor. Of course, what we also need to keep in mind is that the market for many textbooks is quite small, which means that the fixed costs to set them up for printing has far fewer copies to amortize that expense across to turn a profit. With a virtual book, this manufacturing cost literally disappears, so the retail cost of a college textbook should drop by easily 50%-75%. When the game changes from a $200 textbook to a $50 one, the resale cost factor becomes far less important.


Do Apple seriously believe the education system can afford for 20 iPads per classroom? ...

In the US Public Schools, they're already buying truckloads of Dell Laptops, but personally, I suspect that the thrust here would be to seek to getting it adopted at the College (University) level first.

And why is this announcement being held in New York?

Well, how about Roosevelt Island's new NYC TECH CAMPUS




Since I work directly in the eBook Market and work with academia, I feel the need to chime in.

The number one thing that both Libraries and students ask for are eText books.

The only thing preventing my company from providing them are the publishers.

There are very few digital text books (maybe 5 - 10%) available.

Text books are a cash cow for the publishers, which is why they do not offer many of their texts in digital. With print they're able to sell the same text book over and over again. And do!

The only way to get around this is by creating your own text books. This is a very expensive endeavor and only company with as much money in the bank as Apple could attempt this.

Agreed, we need to look at the various motivators. Of course, a marketplace venue that allows the traditional dead tree middleman to be cut out of the process by going to paperless publishing actually should open the doors for new textbooks, such as those that are to be written by a College's staff. That's why I see the potential for Cornell in NYC to be an interesting crucible: it is a new start and with a strong tech focus.

I have a BS in MechEngr (decades ago).

Show me an animation of a mechanism with force vectors...
Now change the link parameters...
Change the forces acting on the links...

...These are basic enhancements that redefine etextbooks. E-ink isn't capable of this.

You mean one in which I can push/pull with my finger "...in the textbook..." on that Statics diagram and watch the deflections? And then push the ad-hoc model right into some FEA software to mesh it?

Oh, I very much see where you're going ... I'm in.


As a chemistry prof and tech enthusiast I am always on the look out for the next great thing and while this may be Apple's next great thing it will need something special to attract students.

There are already a number of electronic options out there, including regular ebooks, and none of them really offer anything compelling for someone who is happy with a paper book.

A Chem Prof buddy of mine has been working on his own textbook and watching the eMarket develop for the past couple of years - - what he sees as important is the ability for the researcher (student) to annotate and tag the reference guide. In the old days of our college years, our big innovation was the yellow highlighter...need something analogous, but better.

I just received a Kindle Touch for Christmas and have bought some Kindle books for it that were on sale, or I needed for my classes...In many cases, the books I looked at on the Kindle were more expensive than their paper counterparts. This is even more true on my iPad where the books were almost always more expensive.

This is a problem! While publishers say that there is more to a book than paper, it makes no sense that a digital edition would be more expensive than an electronic edition.

Agreed! The basic failiure for the marketplace to conform to known basic economic principles is why I've resisted buying eBooks: the effective elimination of their publishing investment risks should result in eBooks being dramatically less costly than a dead tree version...particularly since the dead tree version currently has better restribution/resale rights & mechanisms.

As we know, if anyone can bring order to the chaos it will be Apple. Problem is that there are a lot of people who refuse to drink the Cool Aid and refuse to use anything Apple related. That is another potential problem.

What Apple is more likely to bring is ... marketplace disruption. The current eBook business model is predominantly one of playing chicken -- the hopes that no one else cuts their prices so that everyone can stay fat. What I'm personally hoping for is that Cornell, through the NYC Tech Campus, is going self-publish many of their own texts through Apple and in doing so, be the disruptive force that this market needs to move out of the dark ages and help make advanced education (particularly science-tech based) more affordable.


-hh
 
I'm doing a science degree with the open university currently and the text books are well written but cumbersome. There's also a DVD with the interactive features and videos that I need to use. Having both of these in one place would save time, cost and be much easier to update. Imagine having a concept explained then having the practical side or video of it in line with the text? I think this is the way of the future of education.
Let alone interactive, searchable notes throughout the whole text!
I think this is what apple are aiming for.
 
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thenerdal said:
This is stupid. Digital Textbooks are only good with E-ink displays, otherwise you're gonna cause eye strain.

The key here is displaying vivid dynamic content with interactivity. These are all areas in which Eink doesn't have a good answer for.
See the InkLing app site for examples: http://www.inkling.com
 
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yeah because readers are better for reading than on tablets.

Good lord, man! Are you a spokesperson for Amazon or what?

I suppose if your myopic view of education is limited to reading only, then yes, an e-Ink display would be better. However, there's a lot more to education than just reading. Digital books will allow educators to break free of printed words and static images and expand the definition of "textbooks" to encompass more interactive elements that no e-Ink display is capable of performing.

It the late 80's early 90's developers and educators made use of Apple's HyperCard and demonstrated how powerful interactive learning can be. I would love to see textbooks go from reference texts to actual learning tools.
 
How much of their e-textbook costs are students going to be able to recoup at the end of the semester?

How much will Apple's 30% cut drive up the price?

How will students prop up furniture with e-textbooks?
 
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