Apple's Lengthy Lawsuit With Samsung Over Copying iPhone's Design Headed Back to Court

[KingslayerG5]

Their relationship is so weird. It's like The Hound & Brienne of Tarth talking about their little girl Arya when they basically dueled the last time they met that nearly killed Sandor.

Yet, the more iPhone X gets sold, the more money Samsung makes from it too. Samsung will make more money on iPhone X than on Galaxy S8. Get a room, you two!

 

[convergent]

Agree. Windows versions since 1986 are shameless copies and should be recalled.

Wait, I thought the Apple Fan line was that Windows was crap so which is it? If Windows is copying Apple and is crap, wouldn't that make Apple crap too???

Honestly, if it isn't iPhone no matter how similar it looks to the original latest iPhone, I don't want it because if it's NOT iOS X then it's an Android base just like any other non 'iPhone' cell phones. iPhone has an Apple logo which means iOSX, plain and simple. I don't give a damn if Samsung duplicated, cloned the casing, Samsung will NOT put an Apple logo as their branding. And because it's going to be some form of Samsung branding, it automatically is an android Operating system which I am NOT a fan of. WOULD NOT try to touch with a 1,000 foot pole with. I despise it. I don't want to ever learn about Android operating system. I'm just content with iOS X and I do whole lot of things with it. If one prefers Android, great, that's their thing, certainly NOT mine.

I'm quite happy that all my devices just works, makes me very productive, has made me lucrative with it. All the Apple devices I'm using are ALL WORKING FLAWLESSLY together and each other. I love it all. I pretty much have it all, AppleWatch 3 data, iPhone 7 (Soon to be iPhone X), MacBook Pro 15", iPad Pro 10" with pencil and keyboard case, iPad 3. Incidentally, I use both iPad Pro and iPad 3 as my dual monitor to my MacBook pro and that is just sooo awesome and convenient when I'm at starbucks working on my graphic designs and web designs. Everything just works! Nothing to tinker with the troubles like windows 10 and android. My business partner is a web app programmer, he's a PC and Android user. He spends some level of time having to wonder what's going on with his windows not working in certain ways and have to waste time to adjust it, his latest samsung adroid, he would have to tinker with it every now and then. I never had to deal with any technical issues. I learn to use the productive software and I work away productively without missing a beat. That's Apple. Just saying. And I'm not technical guy. Just an artist that expects devices to work flawless through out the day. Time is money.

Ignorance is bliss. You claim to know nothing about what you are talking about but then go on a rant about it. Also, I think there are a few threads here at MR that would be in conflict with your "FLAWLESSLY" position.... just a few! I have used Apple products in nearly every category together for years, and got a lot of productive use from them, but "FLAWLESS" is not reality. If anything, when something doesn't work, you often have no way to diagnose it because of the walled garden.

 

[justperry]

They can drop it, Samsung made a much better looking smartphone with the S8 than the X.

That's your opinion, seems like the few people which agree with you are, or people with few posts or people which are anti Apple.

Fact is, the S8 backside is fugly., and that fingerprint on the back is just horrible, but hey, that's also an (my) opinion.

 

[bladerunner2000]

Win it for Steve.

The same guy that said this:

"We have invented a new technology called multi-touch."

Except the inventor of multi-touch was Bill Buxton with other individuals working on it before him that paved the way for it.

Then said these things:

So basically, stealing is OK unless it's from him? The guy was a scumbag.
[doublepost=1508783149][/doublepost]

...android Operating system which I am NOT a fan of. WOULD NOT try to touch with a 1,000 foot pole with. I despise it. I don't want to ever learn about Android operating system.

You don't like operating systems that give you options? Why?

 

[justperry]

So basically, stealing is OK unless it's from him? The guy was a scumbag.

Blasphemy!

 

[Return Zero]

The same guy that said this:

"We have invented a new technology called multi-touch."

Except the inventor of multi-touch was Bill Buxton with other individuals working on it before him that paved the way for it.

Then said these things:

So basically, stealing is OK unless it's from him? The guy was a scumbag.

There's a big difference between stealing a great idea and stealing a patented product. This is part of what made Jobs such an excellent business leader. I agree that he may have been a scumbag in certain regards, but legally, he was 100% in the right on this one.

 

[kemal]

How about Samsung is forced to pay Apple a billon dollars and then Apple is forced to license iOS to the Galaxy S8 so I can have the phone I want.

 

[rafark]

Apple is very dumb. Why on earth are they messing with a crucial provider for their most important product.


Samsung can simply halt the production of apple's Oled screens, refund and cancel their partnership contract. that means no iPhone X for at least a year.

Sure Samsung would loose a couple of billions by not producing the Oled screens, however they'd make apple loose much more not only in tens of billions of dollars, but can also damage their brand image, stock prices and so on.

Samsung has a privileged position in this case and they can screw apple if they want.

Apple is really dumb by taking such a risk.

 

[bladerunner2000]

How about Samsung is forced to pay Apple a billon dollars and then Apple is forced to license iOS to the Galaxy S8 so I can have the phone I want.

'Choice' is not in Apple's vocabulary. Never has been.

 

[Mirice99]

I wish I was one of the attorneys working on this case! What bothers me the most about this case is that it seems to be impossible for Apple to get justice in this case, but patent trolls can win much more quickly. WTF! At least Apple is producing products instead of sitting on (often outdated and vague) patents.

No kidding, every company who has ever sued Apple no matter how justified and easily proven Apples violations are is a patent troll, while every time Apple has sued another company it;s just trying to get justice. Apple should exhaust every resource fighting for years and years with appeal after appeal while anyone who sues Apple should pay up right away and not appeal.
[doublepost=1508788145][/doublepost]

That "rectangle" with an all-glass front and no physical keyboard was a radical phone design that Apple took a HUGE risk on in 2007... and was deemed doomed to fail when Steve Jobs revealed it. The design is rightly patented and any company that copies that design SHOULD PAY hefty licensing fees to use it. No idea why it's taking so long for justice to be served.

That's exactly what Apple was hoping for, Apple wanted to be the only company on the planet who could manufacture and sell a "rectangular" phone with no keyboard. Just imagine if Mercedes-Benz tried to sue every company that made a "hornless carriage with 4 wheels". I wonder what would have happened if the Wright brothers like Apple tried to patent a "flying vehicle with wings" and then preceded to sue every company or inventor who tried to develop a "flying vehicle with wings". The sheer arrogance of Apple trying to patent a "rectangle is beyond disgusting and completely pathetic.

 

[kdarling]

This is the case to settle on the level of damages, not whether Samsung copied or not. That was decided nearly 6 years ago so we don't need to debate who copies who.

Yep, it's only about damage calculations. The jury had been misinformed that full profits was the only award for infringement of a design patent.

You really believe that Apple was the first one to come out with a design like that? There were other phones that were similar and had no keyboard, had a glass front, and had one or more buttons.

One similar pre-iPhone design was the Korean designed Pidion smartphone. It was available in black or white, both with a metallic bezel.

Fairly unique for its time, it ran full Windows CE, not the less powerful Windows Mobile. Its homescreen was a grid of icons. Windows CE also had a full IE browser available, making it one of the first commercial smartphones with such.

Foretelling the future 2007 iPhone, Unwired commented in 2005, "If Apple would ever decide to build a new Apple Newton, it could look like this new Pocket PC from Korean ODM Pidion."

Not surprisingly, Apple managed to make sure that the Pidion and other prior art was banned from the jury during the Samsung trial.

It doesn't speak much for Apple's confidence in their patents that they were so wary of such evidence being seen. And they were right. In other trials around the world where the prior art was allowed, Apple failed to win with their design patents.

And do you understand the word "risk"? Apple had no market for phones, so there was nothing to risk, and everything to gain.

This. Apple had no legacy non-touch phones to support. They could do whatever they wanted at the time.

Of course, years later they had their own legacy issues, which e.g. held them back from making larger screened phones for a while.

Palm OS even had App dock like behavior with 4 app shortcuts that had their own hardware buttons. iOS just switched those hardware buttons for on screen dock at the bottom.

Two months before the secret iPhone was announced, the Open Linux group showed off their concept of a multi-touch phone with pinch zoom. Note the touchscreen dock icons:

 

[Mirice99]

its always amusing how people think this boils down to rounded rectangles...

View attachment 726798

come on now. samsung even had internal documents that fully admitted this

It's amusing the lengths people will go to defend Apple, a company who had internal documents that openly stated they knew they were violating VirnetX patents but still continued to do so but are considered the good guys while VernetX are considered evil.

 

[Suckfest 9001]

It's amusing the lengths people will go to defend Apple, a company who had internal documents that openly stated they knew they were violating VirnetX patents but still continued to do so but are considered the good guys while VernetX are considered evil.

wow bro thanks for bringing that totally relevant subject up in this thread. clearly since you brought up vernetx, we can all excuse samsung then

 

[Mirice99]

Sigh. Samsung really dragging its feet to not pay what they’ve been proven multiple times in court to owe.

Just like Apple continues to drag its's feet and not pay to not pay VirnetX even though they've been proven guilty multiple times in court.
[doublepost=1508789173][/doublepost]

wow bro thanks for bringing that totally relevant subject up in this thread. clearly since you brought up vernetx, we can all excuse samsung then

It's actually completely relevant, Sorry for pointing out the glaring hypocrisy of those who scream that Samsung should give up and pay while Apple should exhaust ever possible appeal. Clearly if the Samsung should just give up and pay the Apple should do the same with Vernext right?

 

[Suckfest 9001]

Just like Apple continues to drag its's feet and not pay to not pay VirnetX even though they've been proven guilty multiple times in court.
[doublepost=1508789173][/doublepost]

It's actually completely relevant, Sorry for pointing out the glaring hypocrisy of those who scream that Samsung should give up and pay while Apple should exhaust ever possible appeal. Clearly if the Samsung should just give up and pay the Apple should do the same with Vernext right?

rofl yeah nice, pair us all together when it comes to this. i never said vernext or whatever shouldnt get paid. if the court finds apple guilty, im not gonna lose sleep. hell, if what you're saying is true and apple did knowingly steal, then yeah they should pay up.

don't generalize like that, its not a good look

 

[koruki]

Waits for people to repost the images saying ipod copied Dieter Rams's stuff... even when Dieter Rams himself said Apple is right in this case.

 

[kdarling]

its always amusing how people think this boils down to rounded rectangles...

For this thread, it partly does. The three design patents in question were a round rectangle, a flat screen, and a colorful grid of icons.

come on now. samsung even had internal documents that fully admitted this

You're probably talking about that internal review document done by a different group than the smartphone group, which compared the Galaxy to the iPhone... after the Galaxy was out.

As for documents, this internal Samsung UI design predating the iPhone was yet another piece of prior art that I believe Apple's lawyers made sure the jury never saw:

I believe they also managed to keep this 2006 all touch Samsung phone hidden from the jury as well. It was sold in Korea an entire year before the iPhone went on sale:

The most hilarious thing that came out was that Apple's lawyers had originally included the production Samsung F700 on their list of infringing phones... until they realized that its design predated the iPhone:

The jury itself of course was also a disaster, mostly because of its foreman who made mistake after mistake, especially by telling his fellow jurors that prior art didn't matter. Everyone, including Apple, was shocked at how quickly they came back with a verdict, clearly wanting to go home for the weekend and never return.

Jurors Admit They Finished Quickly By Ignoring Prior Art & Other Key Factors

Basically, a lot of prior art was hidden from, or ignored by, a misled jury. Small wonder that after appeals and review by higher judges, much of the awards have disappeared.

 

[Tech198]

Yay, I was worried that the fun was over...

hoping, but one day we can look back on this.

 

[Suckfest 9001]

For this thread, it partly does. The three design patents in question were a round rectangle, a flat screen, and a colorful grid of icons.



You're probably talking about that internal review document done by a different group than the smartphone group, which compared the Galaxy to the iPhone... after the Galaxy was out.

As for documents, this internal Samsung UI design predating the iPhone was yet another piece of prior art that I believe Apple's lawyers made sure the jury never saw:

View attachment 726894
I believe they also managed to keep this 2006 all touch Samsung phone hidden from the jury as well. It was sold in Korea an entire year before the iPhone went on sale:

View attachment 726893

The most hilarious thing that came out was that Apple's lawyers had originally included the production Samsung F700 on their list of infringing phones... until they realized that its design predated the iPhone:

View attachment 726896

The jury itself of course was also a disaster, mostly because of its foreman who made mistake after mistake, especially by telling his fellow jurors that prior art didn't matter. Everyone, including Apple, was shocked at how quickly they came back with a verdict, clearly wanting to go home for the weekend and never return.

Jurors Admit They Finished Quickly By Ignoring Prior Art & Other Key Factors

Basically, a lot of prior art was hidden from, or ignored by, a misled jury. Small wonder that after appeals and review by higher judges, much of the awards have disappeared.

Lol that looks nothing like the iPhone. Pls.

 

[mi7chy]

Considering the cluster **** that this lawsuit has been,yes I think it’s more than fair to question the patent system

Actually, the issue with this case is not the patent system but Apple's fraudulent claims to patents that were stolen. A lot Apple's patents involved in this case have been invalidated by the USPTO such as slide to unlock, pinch to zoom, rubber banding, etc. All stolen like they attempted to steal Animoji from the small developer emonster inc.

At this point the US court need to throw out the case and charge Apple a penalty along with awarding damages to Samsung.

 

[Suckfest 9001]

Actually, the issue with this case is not the patent system but Apple's fraudulent claims to patents that were stolen. A lot Apple's patents involved in this case have been invalidated by the USPTO such as slide to unlock, pinch to zoom, rubber banding, etc. All stolen like they attempted to steal Animoji from the small developer emonster inc.

At this point the US court need to throw out the case and charge Apple a penalty along with awarding damages to Samsung.

Lol you'd like that wouldn't you? All hail samsung, death to Apple right? Classic! :v

 

[Baymowe335]

Well I’ll give Samsung this; at least their phones look a whole lot different from iPhones these days which even die hard Apple fans seem to praise. I still think their curved ‘Edges’ are ergonomically horrible though and are nothing but a nuisance from the experience I’ve had with them.

Not really...and they stole the jump off point. All phones are still rounded rectangles with app icons on a black screen. Apple designed what we see copied.

 

[mib1800]

For this thread, it partly does. The three design patents in question were a round rectangle, a flat screen, and a colorful grid of icons.



You're probably talking about that internal review document done by a different group than the smartphone group, which compared the Galaxy to the iPhone... after the Galaxy was out.

As for documents, this internal Samsung UI design predating the iPhone was yet another piece of prior art that I believe Apple's lawyers made sure the jury never saw:

View attachment 726894
I believe they also managed to keep this 2006 all touch Samsung phone hidden from the jury as well. It was sold in Korea an entire year before the iPhone went on sale:

View attachment 726893

The most hilarious thing that came out was that Apple's lawyers had originally included the production Samsung F700 on their list of infringing phones... until they realized that its design predated the iPhone:

View attachment 726896

The jury itself of course was also a disaster, mostly because of its foreman who made mistake after mistake, especially by telling his fellow jurors that prior art didn't matter. Everyone, including Apple, was shocked at how quickly they came back with a verdict, clearly wanting to go home for the weekend and never return.

Jurors Admit They Finished Quickly By Ignoring Prior Art & Other Key Factors

Basically, a lot of prior art was hidden from, or ignored by, a misled jury. Small wonder that after appeals and review by higher judges, much of the awards have disappeared.

That is why a lot of people outside the US see this case as a laughing a** joke of the muddled US court. In other countries if you try to sue using a rectangular as a basis, I think the case will just >/dev/null.

 

[Mirice99]

Not really...and they stole the jump off point. All phones are still rounded rectangles with app icons on a black screen. Apple designed what we see copied.

Every car ever created was stolen from the original Mercedes-Benz design of a horseless carriage with a rectangular frame with four wheels but you don't see them trying to sue other companies that make a horseless carriage with a rectangular frame and four wheels.

 

[Shanghaichica]

That "rectangle" with an all-glass front and no physical keyboard was a radical phone design that Apple took a HUGE risk on in 2007... and was deemed doomed to fail when Steve Jobs revealed it. The design is rightly patented and any company that copies that design SHOULD PAY hefty licensing fees to use it. No idea why it's taking so long for justice to be served.

Samsung got damages awarded also because guess what Apple copied them
Too.
[doublepost=1508825122][/doublepost]

You never heard of TSMC? Toshiba/Hynix? Have you looked inside any recent iPhone teardown to see how little there is from Samsung?

I’m talking flagship sales. iPhone slaughters Galaxy S and Note sales.

Keep kidding yourself about Samsung not supplying the parts of iPhones.