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Definitely not. M2 will be priced relatively the same. Apple can't price themselves out for certain markets. Pro can be expensive but it won't be because of M2. Its that simple.

Also, Apple doesn't need proof of concept. This is 2021 - we've passed that long time ago

It is possible that the M1, being a test release, was priced low. A company that charges $100 for a phone cover has kept the prices of the current M1 lineup low because they were looking it as a proof-of-concept. I doubt the M2 machines will be so cheap. They know that they can hype these machines as much as they want because they cannot be compared with anything else as everything is proprietary now. Just a thought.
 
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It is possible that the M1, being a test release, was priced low. A company that charges $100 for a phone cover has kept the prices of the current M1 lineup low because they were looking it as a proof-of-concept. I doubt the M2 machines will be so cheap. They know that they can hype these machines as much as they want because they cannot be compared with anything else as everything is proprietary now. Just a thought.
I don't think it's a proof of concept they been making SoC for their other small devices for awhile. M1 is the toe in the water for a consumer level SoC that is turning out to be the processor for all their consumer products Mac Mini, basic iMac, iPad. The next one the "M2" I would say will be their Procumer level SoC to get into production level audio and video and other app's that need more RAM and cores for multitasking. I think that M2 will be around for quite awhile because Apple silicon for Mac Pro and similar machines is going to take awhile to work out.
 
It is possible that the M1, being a test release, was priced low. A company that charges $100 for a phone cover has kept the prices of the current M1 lineup low because they were looking it as a proof-of-concept. I doubt the M2 machines will be so cheap. They know that they can hype these machines as much as they want because they cannot be compared with anything else as everything is proprietary now. Just a thought.
I'd say the M1 products were priced neither high nor low. Instead, they were priced just as we've come to expect from Apple: When they come out with a newer version of an old product, they tend to price the lower-end models about the same level as those they're replacing.

For instance:

Last Intel MBA, 8 GB RAM, 256 GB SSD: $999
New M1 MBA, 8 GB RAM, 256 GB SSD: $999

Last Intel 13" MBP, 16 GB RAM, 512 GB SSD: $1799
New M1 13" MBP, 16 GB RAM, 512 GB SSD: $1699 ($100 less, but it's got two less TB ports).

And so on. I think you get the picture.
 
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I don't think it's a proof of concept they been making SoC for their other small devices for awhile. M1 is the toe in the water for a consumer level SoC that is turning out to be the processor for all their consumer products Mac Mini, basic iMac, iPad. The next one the "M2" I would say will be their Procumer level SoC to get into production level audio and video and other app's that need more RAM and cores for multitasking. I think that M2 will be around for quite awhile because Apple silicon for Mac Pro and similar machines is going to take awhile to work out.

Well said. M1 is not test or beta. It's a bit odd to say given Apple has built M on the A chip SOC success/concept roadmap. Apple came into M with plenty of experience to drawn on. But M is first gen of this series so I'd expect the evolution potential to springboard by M2 or M3 (assuming the architecture doesn't have a ceiling).

When can Apple have an M powerful enough to make a Pro MB a standout product? The million dollar question. Maybe sooner than we think, maybe not. Apple's ability to keep things under wraps has been stubbornly good. But IF (big if) Apple can by end of year deliver an M series MB pro (big screen, multi monitor support etc) that has an equivalent jump in operation as the MBA M1 jump? IMHO M series may be the biggest computer success(not iPod or iPhone product lines) for Apple except the original Mac. ((I know some will say Apple's biggest story is the Apple I. That was a marvel of its time and gave birth to Apple. But Mac was the success. Only a year (or two?) after Mac I was working at Apple. The employee desktops I remember were all Macs)).
 
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Well said. M1 is not test or beta. It's a bit odd to say given Apple has built M on the A chip SOC success/concept roadmap. Apple came into M with plenty of experience to drawn on. But M is first gen of this series so I'd expect the evolution potential to springboard by M2 or M3 (assuming the architecture doesn't have a ceiling).

When can Apple have an M powerful enough to make a Pro MB a standout product? The million dollar question. Maybe sooner than we think, maybe not. Apple's ability to keep things under wraps has been stubbornly good. But IF (big if) Apple can by end of year deliver an M series MB pro (big screen, multi monitor support etc) that has an equivalent jump in operation as the MBA M1 jump? IMHO M series may be the biggest computer success(not iPod or iPhone product lines) for Apple except the original Mac. ((I know some will say Apple's biggest story is the Apple I. That was a marvel of its time and gave birth to Apple. But Mac was the success. Only a year (or two?) after Mac I was working at Apple. The employee desktops I remember were all Macs)).
I think it’s a safe bet to say the 16 inch mbp will come by the end of 2021.
 
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I think it’s a safe bet to say the 16 inch mbp will come by the end of 2021.

I do too. But I’d like to see the M1X/M2 designation confirmation. Putting out a new MPB 16 that uses Intel would be a letdown (and confirmation the upper end M series is still being worked out).
 
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I do too. But I’d like to see the M1X/M2 designation confirmation. Putting out a new MPB 16 that uses Intel would be a letdown (and confirmation the upper end M series is still being worked out).
The rumor mill blames the delays on production of mimi led displays, I have faith that unless there’s a major architectural overhaul happening, the M-next is on track.
 
I do too. But I’d like to see the M1X/M2 designation confirmation. Putting out a new MPB 16 that uses Intel would be a letdown (and confirmation the upper end M series is still being worked out).
There will be no further MBP 16 with Intel. The machine that they have is enough, and with Intel there would be only minor improvements anyway. Why should they water down their own transition message? For the very few people who need Intel? No way. They will still sell the current MBP16 for a while to address them.

Apple generally doesn't drag their feet when they are doing transitions. This years MPB 16 will feature an M1X to get the Pro users on the ARM train, who need bigger displays and a bit more RAM.
 
My hope is that the M2/M2Pro will offer bigger RAM options. I'm looking to upgrade my project recording studio, and for that application I don't really need substantially greater processing power/speed, nor additional GPU cores. To host sample libraries, however, more RAM would be great. 32GB RAM would be sufficient, 64GB preferable. Heck, an M1 variant with more RAM would be fine. The M1 Max/Ultra options in the Mac Studio are overkill, other than the bigger RAM options offered.

I'm looking to pull the trigger in September, when I'm eligible for free financing via my workplace. Fingers crossed for bigger RAM options on the lesser chips, although I'm anticipating disappointment.
 
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My hope is that the M2/M2Pro will offer bigger RAM options. I'm looking to upgrade my project recording studio, and for that application I don't really need substantially greater processing power/speed, nor additional GPU cores. To host sample libraries, however, more RAM would be great. 32GB RAM would be sufficient, 64GB preferable. Heck, an M1 variant with more RAM would be fine. The M1 Max/Ultra options in the Mac Studio are overkill, other than the bigger RAM options offered.

I'm looking to pull the trigger in September, when I'm eligible for free financing via my workplace. Fingers crossed for bigger RAM options on the lesser chips, although I'm anticipating disappointment.
Agreed. Many power users are in that boat. We don't need a lot of cores, but we do need a lot of RAM. Unfortunately, even when spec'd with maximum RAM, the M-series devices offer a much lower ratio of RAM capacity : performance cores than Apple's last Intel-based desktops. For instance, with the 2019 and 2020 27" iMacs, you could get 128 GB RAM (officially 64 GB on the 2019) with an 8-peformance-core processor (heck, you could get it even with the min-spec'd 6-core i5). With an M-series processor, that's only available with the top of the line Ultra, and its 16P + 4E cores.
 
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Context is required here I think. When Apple installed their own processor in a Mac and called it the M1, we saw a chasmic leap in performance and efficiency compared to similar-priced and similar-spec'd Intel Macs, the likes of which we will never see again: M2 and upwards will be evolutionary, not revolutionary.

I feel it very unlikely that M1->M2 upgrades will be economically worth it. Sure there will be a minority of people who can genuinely justify investing in what evolution M2 brings, and there will be others who barely use the power of the M1 machine they currently own but who will buy M2 because they HAVE to own the latest. But for the most of us, M1/Pro/Max/Ultra are good enough until at least M3 appears.
 
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Apple's custom next-generation Mac processor entered mass production this month, claims a new report today from Nikkei Asia. Tentatively dubbed the "M2" after Apple's M1 chip, the processors take at least three months to produce and could begin shipping as early as July in time for incorporation in Apple's next line of MacBooks, according to the paper's sources.
This article has not aged well.
 
More RAM options == more SKUs early in production + 3rd size of RAM chips to be sourced

So no, until the up the base Mx to 16GB (which IMO is a few years out) I don't see the MxPro going beyond 32GB.
I truly hope you're wrong on this, but you probably aren't--hence my anticipation of disappointment.

Crap. No cheap M2 Mini or MBA/MBP for my studio, then.
 
Agreed. Many power users are in that boat. We don't need a lot of cores, but we do need a lot of RAM. Unfortunately, even when spec'd with maximum RAM, the M-series devices offer a much lower ratio of RAM capacity : performance cores than Apple's last Intel-based desktops. For instance, with the 2019 and 2020 27" iMacs, you could get 128 GB RAM (officially 64 GB on the 2019) with an 8-peformance-core processor (heck, you could get it even with the min-spec'd 6-core i5). With an M-series processor, that's only available with the top of the line Ultra, and its 16P + 4E cores.

Not the M series, the M1 series.
Apple have multiple plans for ways to increase DRAM substantially in a flexible way.
One direction has the DRAM attached to a "spine", a sliver of silicon that is attached to one or two points on the die. This allows the creation of a denser block of compute (2x2 or larger blocks are now possible) along with a flexible number of spines depending on how much DRAM you want.

Examples look like this:
Screen Shot 2022-05-26 at 10.37.44 AM.png


The CPU "pairs" are items like an M1 Ultra. They are joined together by bridges (as you can see) which could be EMIB-like or just a simple BEOL RDL. You also see the "spines" allowing for crazy amounts of memory attachment.
The fascinating thing is that the design is somewhat mix-and-match at the packaging level, so that Apple can grow to extremely large designs, if a customers asks for them, without having to spin new masks beyond the current Max-sized masks (which are also used to create Ultras; Ultras are created as a BEOL layer on top of a reconstituted wafer of Max's, they are not fabbed as a different part.)

On a different angle, Apple have done serious work on looking at augmenting the current DRAM only design with alternative types of RAM, possibly Optane-like, possibly HBM-like. In each of these cases, this is not just idle-talk. For example if you want to use an Optane like memory (much larger capacity than DRAM, but also slower) you need to redesign the memory controller to cope with the fact that some memory requests will return much slower than others (and you don't want the slow requests delaying the fast requests). This redesigned memory controller work has been done. There are similar issues if you want to use 3D-stacked DRAM (like HBM) -- an optimal memory controller design looks rather different from just slapping in an existing memory controller (which will work, sure, but not optimally).

On a third angle, Apple have patented a new, scalable, cache coherence protocol. Every company (IBM, Intel, AMD, ...) has had to go through this stage as they grow their designs; now it's come for Apple. They did an astonishing job of growing MOESI from the simple initial two-core CPUs up to M1 Ultra, but the current design will start to be a pain point as the chips grow larger, hence a new cache protocol. (Based on MOESI, but allowing for various ore sophisticated shared states.)

Not all this stuff will come to pass. But there are enough pieces, that all seem to fit together in a coherent fashion, that the big picture seems clear. People think I am crazy when I evangelize this stuff, but honestly, the entire computing world (Intel, AMD, even IBM big iron) have no idea what's about to hit them over the next few years. Intel's worrying about the next Zen is going to look absurd by 2027 as they start to lose data centers and supercomputers to Apple.

These are just a few of many patents suggesting the direction:
https://patents.google.com/patent/US20190319626A1 Systems and methods for implementing a scalable system
https://patents.google.com/patent/US20170242798A1 Methods for performing a memory resource retry
https://patents.google.com/patent/US20220083472A1 Scalable Cache Coherency Protocol
 
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Intel's worrying about the next Zen is going to look absurd by 2027 as they start to lose data centers and supercomputers to Apple.
Is that a real possibility, though? Apple currently has difficulty meeting the 20 to 30 million in sales to consumers, would they even try marketing to data centers?
 
Not the M series, the M1 series.
Thanks for posting that interesting info., but I think you've misunderstood me. When I said M-series, I meant it as a shorthand for the M1, M1 Pro, M1 Max, and M1 Ultra. I.e., I was referring to current processors, not future ones. Perhaps I should have said "M1-series".

By contrast, you're talking about possible future RAM options.

As to the those, IDK. Do you see Apple doing this for their lower-end devices, like the Mx-Pro, so people could buy an 8-10 P core Pro with 128+ GB RAM? Or is this something more likely to show up on the future Mac Pro?

Also skeptical about the server market. Apple hasn't shown any interest in this. And Amazon has done some very good work with their ARM-based Graviton processors, so Apple wouldn't have the efficiency advantage there that it now has in the consumer space.

But who knows....It will be interesting to see what happens.
 
Do you see Apple doing this for their lower-end devices, like the Mx-Pro, so people could buy an 8-10 P core Pro with 128+ GB RAM? Or is this something more likely to show up on the future Mac Pro?

The way I see it it would still require CPU and RAM to be combined very early in production creating extra logistic trouble with every new SKU.

It's also expected that very few people would opt for an "odd" combination of RAM and CPU making it a non-starter.

In the same way some people might want a M1-Ultra CPU with just a basic display-out GPU or the other way round a massive GPU and just a 4 core CPU to control that workload.

All this is possible with a modular PC like design but would come with other caveats and at Apple's current volume of Mac sales it just doesn't make sense to create that many different SoCs.
 
The way I see it it would still require CPU and RAM to be combined very early in production creating extra logistic trouble with every new SKU.

It's also expected that very few people would opt for an "odd" combination of RAM and CPU making it a non-starter.

In the same way some people might want a M1-Ultra CPU with just a basic display-out GPU or the other way round a massive GPU and just a 4 core CPU to control that workload.

All this is possible with a modular PC like design but would come with other caveats and at Apple's current volume of Mac sales it just doesn't make sense to create that many different SoCs.
I don't see the multiple SKU's per se being an issue. E.g., the 2020 iMac wasn't modular when it came to RAM, yet each of the 4 different processors were offered with 4 different RAM options, giving 16 combinations for CPU & RAM alone. And that combines with all the different GPU and SSD options, making for numerous SKU's. So Apple has no problem handlng high SKU multiplicities.

Instead, I think the problem is simply configurational and technological. Because they are constrained in how many RAM modules each processor type is configured with (I think it's 2/4/8/16 for the base/Pro/Max/Ultra respectively), and the only two module options (at least with the LPDDR5 they're using now) are 4 and 8 GB, that limits them to 8/16/32/64 GB with the 4 GB modules, and 16/32/64/128 GB with the 8's. So, given the configurational restrictions, the only way to get more RAM would be higher RAM densities (e.g., 12 GB or 16 GB modules).
 
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