Apple's Mac Sales Stagnant in Q2 2017 Amid Continuing Worldwide PC Market Decline

[alias99]

you're making my point.

the prices of Canadian products increased from their USD equivelant about 3-4 years ago, to match the difference in the dollar.

that's exactly what i'm pointing out.

The problem with that price increase in a relatively short period of time, pegging it on the dollar, when there's no actual reason to, didn't suddenly mean that people in Canada's disposable income suddenly went up 30%-40% either.

We're not some country that uses the USD. so our day to day lives are not impacted directly by it. Except when suddenly prices go up 30-40% on assorted items all for some US based company to claim it as USD profits and prop up their margins at my countries expense.

It's even further soured when Apple already constantly boasts larger than average for their industries profit margins.

I'm not 30-40% richer. But Apple is expecting me to part with that much more than it was 2-3 years ago.

Apples worldwide operations are linked to the USD just like Oil, Gold and multiple other products. Most international investments are made in USD. Their suppliers are most likely paid in USD, so because country A or B or C currency value drops why should they take the hit??!

And as other posters from the UK have mentioned, all electronic prices have gone up not just Apple.

Again i gave you the example of Brazil, hypothetically if their currency was the same as USD but then lost over 600% in value should they keep the pricing the same and sell their products at a loss?? No

If you maintain your logic is correct, why don't you drive over to the US and buy there and save yourself the marginal difference which isn't 30-40%??

 

[KPandian1]

The problem with that price increase in a relatively short period of time, pegging it on the dollar, when there's no actual reason to, didn't suddenly mean that people in Canada's disposable income suddenly went up 30%-40% either.

We're not some country that uses the USD. so our day to day lives are not impacted directly by it. Except when suddenly prices go up 30-40% on assorted items all for some US based company to claim it as USD profits and prop up their margins at my countries expense.

But Apple is expecting me to part with that much more than it was 2-3 years ago.

You are not making any sense, just whining that the US $ vs Canadian $ change is unfair! Call out your country for the disparity, not Apple, or Boeing or any random US company from whom you have to import. Buy Canadian?!

To which currency should Apple "peg" its price?

Brexit slaughtered the Pound. Their fault, not the USA's or Apple's! The English do whine, not an issue for Apple!

You also admit that your day-to-day life is not impacted by the change in the dollar value.

I take vacations with disposable income; buying computers comes within the budgeted income once in a few years. Also, the price of computers from Apple did not go down 40% (or by whatever % the USA $ became stronger) in the USA - should the Americans whine? No, it will not make sense! In inverse is your position. (French/Yoda!)

Apple propped up its profits in the USA too, even when the currency became stronger. See the flow of price pattern. Then add the currency conversion factor. The actual reason.

Currency fluctuations are not dictated by Apple.

 

[Abazigal]

http://ben-evans.com/benedictevans/2017/7/13/creation-and-consumption

Interesting article I recommend a read for.

In a nutshell, the article posits that for all the PCs in the world today, only about 10% of them are used for "real work", while the rest could theoretically also be done on a mobile device such as a smartphone or tablet.

I believe Apple knows what the rest of the people here do not (or at least, are unwilling to acknowledge). Apple realises that most people don't really need the full capabilities of a PC to do the tasks that they are currently doing on a PC, intend to eventually transition them over to the iPad, and their renewed push in wearables, iPad productivity and the corresponding lack of attention to the Mac reflect this as well.

 

[lec0rsaire]

you're making my point.

the prices of Canadian products increased from their USD equivelant about 3-4 years ago, to match the difference in the dollar.

that's exactly what i'm pointing out.

The problem with that price increase in a relatively short period of time, pegging it on the dollar, when there's no actual reason to, didn't suddenly mean that people in Canada's disposable income suddenly went up 30%-40% either.

We're not some country that uses the USD. so our day to day lives are not impacted directly by it. Except when suddenly prices go up 30-40% on assorted items all for some US based company to claim it as USD profits and prop up their margins at my countries expense.

It's even further soured when Apple already constantly boasts larger than average for their industries profit margins.

I'm not 30-40% richer. But Apple is expecting me to part with that much more than it was 2-3 years ago.

This is how companies operate. Ideally they have to price their products so that they cost nearly the same in every territory otherwise you would have holders of strong currency that would take advantage and buy the products for cheaper abroad instead of locally. People would even start reselling for a profit (arbitrage) if the profits are worth the trouble. This would hurt stores and resellers selling the product in USD and lead to supply shortages in Canada for example. Even worse sometimes companies will just not ship much stock to the country with a depreciated currency. There is usually a time frame of 5-6 months before a company will adjust prices to correct this situation. It can be faster or slower depending on whether it's a short-term or long term trend.

An example: Last summer due to Brexit the pound went down to $1.20 USD from the normal range of $1.55-1.6. What happens? The U.K. becomes one of the cheapest places to buy watches. Due to really high demand at the pre-Brexit MSRPs, Rolex drastically reduced their supply of stainless steel sports watches to the U.K. until a price increase around November and sent them to countries where they were priced near parity with respect to the Swiss franc. Result: Many unhappy people that couldn't even buy a regular Submariner for months when usually anyone can walk into a boutique any day of the week anywhere and buy one.

Obviously people from the country with the depreciated currency aren't getting paid more which makes certain foreign goods more expensive. Usually once prices are increased, they're not dropped even if the currency appreciates. Depending on the GDP/capita of the country this can result in products that a large percentage of the population just cannot afford. It's not fair but life isn't fair.

 

[freediverx]

Well, that’s what happens when you take an already overpriced product like the MacBook Pro and slap on an additional $500 for a useless TouchBar.

 

[hotgril]

Hey, I'm happy about the trend of increasing marketshare. That's what really matters to us consumers. But software is also becoming more cross-platform anyway for unrelated reasons, which matters even more.

Let's hope the Spacebook doesn't throw people overboard. I, for one, feel nudged a little closer to an Asus running Linux, which I will 100% buy if USB-C isn't totally ubiquitous by the time I need to replace my 2015 rMBP.

 

[KeanosMagicHat]

And yet sales of the older models of MBP's jumped after Apple released the dumb new ones.

Ain't rocket science: don't release crap!

This is a key aspect for me.

The vast majority of people I know either kept hold of their old MacBooks or bought old models at a discount to avoid the Dongle debacle.
[doublepost=1500210058][/doublepost]

Price, price, price. Apple is more and more positioning itself as a luxury upscale Rolex or Mercedes type product . . .

So they're moving from a relatively large market into a niche?

Doesn't make sense to me.

Sounds very similar to how they messed up the first time around.
[doublepost=1500210393][/doublepost]

I don't get it, laptop market shrinking, tablet market shrinking, desktop market shrinking...do people just want phones, phones, and more phones?

Whereas for me a tablet and a phone are 2 distinct devices that offer me different experiences, many others prefer a very large phone to a tablet.
[doublepost=1500211321][/doublepost]

Its never been a major player. The people who self build their PCs are generally hobbyists and gamers. They have never been a significant portion of the computer buying population. The vast majority of consumers don't know how to or care to assemble their own PCs.

That's not quite true. In the very early days of home computing, the home build and upgrade approach was extremely popular.

Every computing magazine was chock full of ads for motherboards, memory, hard drives, fans etc.

It's been a long time since those days though, I agree.

 

[throAU]

yeah, well bumping the prices by $500 AU certainly didn't help.

 

[CWallace]

And yet sales of the older models of MBP's jumped after Apple released the dumb new ones.

This is a key aspect for me. The vast majority of people I know either kept hold of their old MacBooks or bought old models at a discount to avoid the Dongle debacle.

Since the new models debuted, Mac Division revenues have continued to grow at a percentage far above unit sales percentage growth. That doesn't happen when you are only selling discounted 2015 units. So clearly a large number of people are buying the 2016 and 2017 MacBook Pro models.

 

[Cheffy Dave]

So just when the prices went up? Ain't rocket science, drop the price!

AND, give us usable ports!
[doublepost=1500228096][/doublepost]

Well, that’s what happens when you take an already overpriced product like the MacBook Pro and slap on an additional $500 for a useless TouchBar.

it's $300

 

[philip_t]

My company is holding off buying new MBPs in case Apple sees reason. It is not the price (because it will beat Apple up on that anyhow) - it is the dumb spec. No SD card slot and not even one USB-A socket = laptop not fit for techies in the field. It could buy 2015s - but unless Apple is going to commit to on-going support to a 2 year old model ad infinitum it would rather not. Don't Apple ever talk to customers?

 

[KeanosMagicHat]

. . . . Don't Apple ever talk to customers?

Apple post sales support is largely excellent, but when it comes to product design it's "Apple knows best - like it or lump it".

Unfortunately due to their powerful positon at the moment, they also have a significant proportion of the tech press under their influence too who will happily spin even the most ludicrous design decisions.

It's not a position that can last in the long term, especially with corporate customers like your company. There are many other choices available to them and companies like yours won't hold out forever in the hope that Apple delivers the product spec they desire.

 

[throAU]

So much whining about USB-C.

I really don't care about that personally. USB-C/Thunderbolt is the future, i can deal with short term pain for that. In the context of a $2000+ machine, a USB-C dock with other interfaces on it is really insignificant in terms of spend, and in a few years time we'll be glad to have USB-C everywhere.

But no, there are a couple of big reasons for the downturn IMHO:

1. Price. When i paid less money in 2015 for the same spec i could buy in 2016-2017 (literally, the cost of the 13" pro in my sig went up by several hundred dollars, they still sold in it 2016 - not sure if the non-touchbar non-USB-C model is still on sale, but would not surprise me), there's something wrong.
2. Cannibalisation by the iPad. Unless you're a developer, the ipad is probably a better machine for general "stuff" type home use.

But yeah. It annoys me. I need a computer for some stuff and I'd really like it to be a Mac, but Apple are making it really difficult to justify buying something I mostly don't want. As in, i don't want some middle of the road GPU, i'd rather integrated only and hook up something decent over thunderbolt. I don't need/want a Xeon or whatever, i just want more RAM. I don't need/want a monitor, just give me a desktop without one that isn't 4-5 years old and unexpandable?

Give me something affordable that I can stick 64 GB of RAM in. I don't need an 18 core CPU. 6-8 cores is fine. But i need a heap of RAM. I can get 64 GB of RAM with 8 cores (Ryzen 1700) in a PC to do the stuff i need to do for well under $2000 Aussie.

To get that in an Apple machine? Hahahaha... i'm looking at 2-3x that. Entry level 2012 Mac Pro is about 4-5 grand here. For a 6 core. With poverty spec... i.e., not 64 GB of RAM, minuscule storage, etc.

I really like macOS, and i really like the build quality on Apple hardware but seriously.... its really difficult to justify spending 2-3x the price for somewhat equivalent spec purely to run macOS.

And yes, to a degree spec often doesn't matter. But RAM does. I need 32-64 GB for what I do (Lots of virtual machines), but i just don't need the associated stuff Apple force me into to go with it....

 

[MrX8503]

No, but to a heck of a heck of a lot of people, a computer is what it is to me: a desktop, keyboard-based, sometimes computationally intensive way of making a living. And these are the people Apple is catastrophically underserving and catastrophically overcharging.

I guarantee you that there are WAAAYYYY more casual users than professionals.

The more intense your computational needs are, the smaller your market. These small markets generally build custom machines.

The issue is everyone thinks their OWN needs is the same as everyone else's. That's simply not true.

 

[DVD9]

When Apple stopped selling them, they were available on the UK Apple Store quite cheap as "refurbished" for over a year until they were all sold. So people didn't buy them back then at a really good price.

A 17" MBP is something that people _want_ but they didn't buy it.

Apple never manufactured a 17" Retina Macbook Pro.

Everyone wanted a Retina screen and they still do. I want a 17" Retina Macbook Pro, not an old low resolution TFT screen.

I'm using a 15"Retina Macbook. My point was I don't want to buy another, I want a 17"(or bigger than 17") Macbook Pro.

 

[imronburgundy]

Yep, I needed a MBP for a variety of reasons (mainly I missed Mac OS X), so I sold my 1060 gaming laptop, and set a decent budget. At the end of my research, I upgraded my hackintosh desktop with a 1070 (only boots into Linux and Win10 now) and bought a 2014 MBP with the 750M video card and 512 GB SSD that still had some applecare on it for $1300. It is amazing even though it is several years old. I use it for VERY casual gaming--it is capable of Overwatch in boot camp at the lower levels.

TLDR; I agree with you. In the long run it is far cheaper to build a desktop for gaming, and use an older MBP.

Overwatch is the best...

 

[lec0rsaire]

My company is holding off buying new MBPs in case Apple sees reason. It is not the price (because it will beat Apple up on that anyhow) - it is the dumb spec. No SD card slot and not even one USB-A socket = laptop not fit for techies in the field. It could buy 2015s - but unless Apple is going to commit to on-going support to a 2 year old model ad infinitum it would rather not. Don't Apple ever talk to customers?

It's just a matter of time before everything is USB-C. As for the SD slot, a dongle isn't such a big deal. There are even parts you can attach to either side that give you these ports and can be removed. I'm sure wireless transfer will be the future for photos even with high end cameras. For those shooting with their iPhones, connecting a phone isn't even necessary unless you want to quickly transfer an entire library over or videos since each shot will show up on any MacBook or iMac.

 

[h4lp m3]

And yet sales of the older models of MBP's jumped after Apple released the dumb new ones.

Ain't rocket science: don't release crap!

Can't agree more with that statement. In fact, I was waiting for it. I bought a 13" MBP from Best Buy for $699. And upgraded with an SSD and 16GB RAM for $250. It's just as fast at a new MBP and I can swap the DVD drive with another SSD if I want. The trendies buying Touchbar macs can't have 2 drives.

 

[gim]

Usually once prices are increased, they're not dropped even if the currency appreciates. Depending on the GDP/capita of the country this can result in products that a large percentage of the population just cannot afford. It's not fair but life isn't fair.

This is what's happening in Europe right now.
Considering taxes and the current exchange rate, the already overpriced MacBooks are another 10% more expensive here, which makes the prices absolutely ludicrous.

Apple increased their prices when the Euro dropped to $1.04.
The Euro rebounded to $1.18, but Apple haven't adjusted the prices. They'll probably never do.

 

[lec0rsaire]

This is what's happening in Europe right now.
Considering taxes and the current exchange rate, the already overpriced MacBooks are another 10% more expensive here, which makes the prices absolutely ludicrous.

Apple increased their prices when the Euro dropped to $1.04.
The Euro rebounded to $1.18, but Apple haven't adjusted the prices. They'll probably never do.

You're right. They will definitely not lower prices but they might delay further price increases if the Euro stays around this range. I'm actually traveling to Germany in the next weeks and I should've bought Euros a couple of months ago when the exchange was 1.06-1.07. Family and friends always ask me to bring them a MacBook, iPad or iPhone when they need a new one and know I'm coming over. These electronics will always be cheaper in the U.S. I don't know about worldwide dSLR prices. HK might be a better place to buy that kind of stuff but the flight is expensive so it's only worth it if one is going there for business.