Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
I have been a Mac fan for many years. I have an iMac and MacBook Pro 13 (plus lots of other Mac's in the past). I recently picked up a Surface Laptop and must say I prefer it to the Mac. I find the keyboard better and Windows Hello is fantastic. I think the trackpad is comparable to the MacBook. But, the Surface Dial kills any device for scrolling etc.

The main reason I liked USB-C on the MacBook was for PD chargers and PowerBanks. However, I picked up a Surface magnetic to USB-C PD charge cable from Amazon; problem solved. Most of the peripherals I have are USB-A, and I had to use adapters with my Macs. They all plug straight into the surface, including my Apple Super Drive.

I'm currently thinking of selling my MacBook Pro to pick up a higher end Surface Laptop now...
 
For me it ultimately came down to the fact that I just wasn't excited about the current Mac lineup.

^This^. I bought an MM18 to replace my iMac. If my wife wasn't an Apple employee I would have bought PC. If I was in the market for a laptop, regardless my wife working for Apple, I would have bought a PC. Most likely a ThinkPad.

Apple is really out to lunch on their MacBookPro pricing imo.
 
  • Like
Reactions: stevekr
My big gripe about the surface line is the fabric keyboard. It has a nice and premium feel to it (warm and subtle), however, it does not age well. My surface pro 4 fingerprint keyboard has seen better days and it’s taken well care of.
 
That's considerably slower than the MBA.

I haven't benchmarked the MBA's storage. Care to provide some?

I also never actually made any claims about the comparison of NVME drives to Apple's storage offerings.

I was just responding to a comment that believed that the drive in the Surface Laptop was a SATA based one. It is not. it is an NVME drive.

Since i'm bored, I decided to do some searching. I think you're confusing the MacBook Pro storage setup for the one in the Air. all the benchmarks I can find so far on the 2018 Air's storage appears to be 1/2 of what the Mbpro has. This indicates to me that either the Y series CPU is a bottleneck on this device, or, they're not using the same storage setup in the AIr as they are the Pro.

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Apple-MacBook-Air-2018-i5-256-GB-Laptop-Review.357481.0.html

based on this sites tests, the Air's storage has the following characteristics
4k Writes: 118.01
4k Reads: 29.97
4k q32t1 write: 232.08
4k q32t1 read: 253.96
Seq Write: 1000.4
Seq Read: 1217.96
Seq Q32T1 write: 1001.1
Seq Q32T1 Read: 2555.3

these are on par with a midrange NVME drive.

the drive I linked earlier. the 970 EVO for $90 has the following results:
4k Writes: 138.9
4k Reads: 47.61
4k q32t1 write: 255.1
4k q32t1 read: 355.7
Seq Write: 1103.9
Seq Read: 1037.7
Seq Q32T1 write: 2353.0
Seq Q32T1 Read: 3574.8

the NVME drive is significantly faster than the AIR's current storage. if anyone has an AIR and can run CrystaldiskMark and post the screenshot, would be helfpul instead of relying on this site.

here's the screenshot of my run of of CrystalDiskmark
upload_2019-2-26_19-43-54.png
 
I think it is a timely article, even if it doesn't delve deeper into specifics and hands on screen usage comparisons.

also has some inaccuracies and glosses over differences that hurt the articles point about the competency of the MBA.

I honestly like these comparison articles. But this one is on par with THeVerge's "how to build a PC" article. misguided and glosses over points that they don't understand.
 
double checked for you. the Surface Laptop is using a PCIe based NVME SSD.

Depending on manufacturer of the drive itself, but PCIe NVME drives are rated for 3Gbps continuous read, about 2gbps continous rights. In line with what is standard in the industry.

they're also really cheap these days. The Samsung 970 EVO for example (capable of speeds mentioned above) can be found for approximately $100 for a 250gb version.
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?item=N82E16820147741

storage has come down in price dramatically. What Apple currently has listed for upgrade prices are approximately 3-5x RETAIL prices for storage. And being NVME based, are user (not easily on the sl2) replacable / upgradable.
Just because SSD uses PCIe NVME interface doesn't mean it has fast read and write speeds. Reviews such as this one or this one show much slower read and write performances.
 
Why? Please explain. Apple does not and has never made sub $900 notebook style computers asthey refuse to use sub par or under spec components.


while.. they use subpar and underspecced components...

they're using a Y series CPU instead of U.

They're using storage thats 1/2 the performance of the MacBook Pro's and slower than standard dirt cheap NVME drives.

the colour gamut of the display is only approximately 63% sRGB and i believe only about 75% of it's OWN 10bit colour (The MacBook pro screen is gorgous in comparison)

the MacBook air is quite honestly, the exact opposite of the claim you just made... and it's $1200

THe device itself would be well suited at the $899-999 starting price. NOT $1199.


And that's the biggest problem with this article today. it completely, utterly, epicly, glosses over these compromises. leading many, like yourself to believe that the comparison is equal in all aspects and tech.

Apple has quite literally with this Air done exactly what they, and you here claimed they would not do. Cheap out and release sub par components. But they did it at a high price.
[doublepost=1551229517][/doublepost]
Just because SSD uses PCIe NVME interface doesn't mean it has fast read and write speeds. Reviews such as this one or this one show much slower read and write performances.

Woof. those are horrible! as I said, it's NVME based, that's all I had found. If I had gotten an NVME based drive with that performance I'd be returning it.

as you can see in my above benchmark post, those are the expected numbers out of an NVME drive. REally curious what the hell chipset/storage controller Microsoft is using
 
also has some inaccuracies and glosses over differences that hurt the articles point about the competency of the MBA.

I honestly like these comparison articles. But this one is on par with THeVerge's "how to build a PC" article. misguided and glosses over points that they don't understand.
While I agree about inaccuracies, I think it is also possible that MR wanted to keep it light and fluffy while addressing the so-called average Joe or Suzy six pack. From what I have observed over the years, MR has never tried to open the hood and delve inside the engine. While I don't expect under the hood articles and videos on a regular basis, I think MR does a disservice to the onlooker and members by posting light and fluffy all the time, especially on possible future purchase / use articles and videos like this one. Conversely, MR seems to go out of their way to be verbose when it comes to Kuo and other rumors. In many ways, it is rather strange that a website so devoted and staffed with paid people, often falls short compared to the "regular" members who treat this place like Cheers, and share more knowledge and tips than MR itself (most of the time).
 
  • Like
Reactions: LordVic
Had a chance to check out Surface notebook and very surprise how nice it feels and looks. keyboard blows away my macbook pro. Next notebook will be something from MS. Macbooks are just way overprice for the specs you are getting.
 
  • Like
Reactions: stevekr
so not only did this article made error on the cpu comparison, isn't the surface laptop also a touch screen? that is a big difference that no one should ever leave out.

also i do not agree with the keyboard comparison, the butterfly key is complete crap i have to attach a external keyboard everytime i want to do any serious work with it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: aylk
Their whole line? The Surface Book 2 has USB-C

IIRC, it's only USB-C and not thunderbolt (which is what I mean when I saw USB-C, my fault). It can't charge the device or drive a display connect to an eGPU. I could be wrong, though.

The one I would be interested in, Surface Studio, only has vanilla USB 3 ports.
 
so not only did this article made error on the cpu comparison, isn't the surface laptop also a touch screen? that is a big difference that no one should ever leave out.

also i do not agree with the keyboard comparison, the butterfly key is complete crap i have to attach a external keyboard everytime i want to do any serious work with it.

in my ranting i'm leaving out the keyboard as that CAN be a subjective opinion (I hate it)

but you're right. I completely also missed that for all that same comparison in price and performance, the Surface has a touch screen the MacBook Air does not.

one can argue how much use one might get with a touch screen, but the fact that it is INCLUDED in the surface price, yet Apple's more expensive laptop, with ALL the other compromises, also does not include a touch screen.

MR made a mistake with this article :p they're not comparing Apples to Apples. they're comparing Apples to ... everyone else. and well, everyone else seems to be able to offer products that offer a lot omore, and often for a lot less.


yeah. I'm bitter. I wanted a new MBA to replace my old dead one and Apple dropped the ball.
 
in my ranting i'm leaving out the keyboard as that CAN be a subjective opinion (I hate it)

but you're right. I completely also missed that for all that same comparison in price and performance, the Surface has a touch screen the MacBook Air does not.

one can argue how much use one might get with a touch screen, but the fact that it is INCLUDED in the surface price, yet Apple's more expensive laptop, with ALL the other compromises, also does not include a touch screen.

MR made a mistake with this article :p they're not comparing Apples to Apples. they're comparing Apples to ... everyone else. and well, everyone else seems to be able to offer products that offer a lot omore, and often for a lot less.


yeah. I'm bitter. I wanted a new MBA to replace my old dead one and Apple dropped the ball.
The other aspect, which plays a big factor for many here, is the OS and customer support. And for me, that is where Apple shines.
 
I waited for six months with my cash for the MacAir and was certainly extremely disappointed, the scroll screen is a big factor for me in scrolling manuscripts and web pages, and you have pen input as a tool... ports are however a negative and the addon port box is expensive.
 
The other aspect, which plays a big factor for many here, is the OS and customer support. And for me, that is where Apple shines.

Oh, I'll agree there. But for me, MacOS isn't worth the $300 premium.

Their support when I had to deal with it was absolutely top end. but again. not worth the premium for a worse overall experience with the hardware itself.
 
  • Like
Reactions: OdT22
Some of you people are truly sad.

To configure a Surface Book 2 13.5" display with 16GB of RAM I have to pick the i7 processor only. Pick the 512GB SSD

Price: $2499

Apple Macbook Air 13" with 16GB RAM and the i5 obviously with the 512SSD

Price: $1799

In short, your Surface Book 2 13.5" with a faster CPU at 8GB gets you screwed over if you need it long term as RAM demands start to mount up: 16GB is the new baseline if anyone thinks for more than 2 seconds on system performance.

The Author chose the Surface Laptop 2. Both Surface products are minutely different from each other, but with longevity in mind you are spending > $2k which pits them against a MacBook Pro.

Same conundrum: Hard locked to 8GB or if you want 16GB it requires the i7.

It's temporarily marked down at $899 for introductory pricing only.

Same configuration with the i7 and 512SSD has it temporarily down to $1899

Regular price baseline will be $2199.

I'll pass on both and go this route:

Customize your 13‑inch MacBook Pro - Space Gray


  • 2.3GHz quad‑core 8th‑generation Intel Core i5 processor, Turbo Boost up to 3.8GHz
  • Retina display with True Tone
  • Touch Bar and Touch ID
  • Intel Iris Plus Graphics 655
  • 16GB 2133MHz LPDDR3 memory
  • 512GB SSD storage
  • Four Thunderbolt 3 ports
  • Backlit Keyboard - US English

$2,199.00
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: emmanoelle
Since i'm bored, I decided to do some searching. I think you're confusing the MacBook Pro storage setup for the one in the Air. all the benchmarks I can find so far on the 2018 Air's storage appears to be 1/2 of what the Mbpro has. This indicates to me that either the Y series CPU is a bottleneck on this device, or, they're not using the same storage setup in the AIr as they are the Pro.

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Apple-MacBook-Air-2018-i5-256-GB-Laptop-Review.357481.0.html

based on this sites tests, the Air's storage has the following characteristics
4k Writes: 118.01
4k Reads: 29.97
4k q32t1 write: 232.08
4k q32t1 read: 253.96
Seq Write: 1000.4
Seq Read: 1217.96
Seq Q32T1 write: 1001.1
Seq Q32T1 Read: 2555.3

these are on par with a midrange NVME drive.

the drive I linked earlier. the 970 EVO for $90 has the following results:
4k Writes: 138.9
4k Reads: 47.61
4k q32t1 write: 255.1
4k q32t1 read: 355.7
Seq Write: 1103.9
Seq Read: 1037.7
Seq Q32T1 write: 2353.0
Seq Q32T1 Read: 3574.8

the NVME drive is significantly faster than the AIR's current storage. if anyone has an AIR and can run CrystaldiskMark and post the screenshot, would be helfpul instead of relying on this site.

here's the screenshot of my run of of CrystalDiskmark
View attachment 823701

The Surface Laptop uses PCIe-based NVMe SSD, which is considerably slower than the NVMe SSDs used in Apple's computers with their Apple-custom interface/controller. By a factor of 10x on sequential reads.
 
  • Like
Reactions: emmanoelle
Oh, I'll agree there. But for me, MacOS isn't worth the $300 premium.

Their support when I had to deal with it was absolutely top end. but again. not worth the premium for a worse overall experience with the hardware itself.
I had 1 problem with a new 13" MBP in 2012 and Apple replaced the logic board under warranty. Never gave me any more trouble. I have also had the 2016, 2017 TB 13" MBP with no problems, along with the 2018 mini. All of these products have had various problems with many members here. I have never had problems with them. If I had after a new purchase, my ratio would be leaning more your direction.

I could go out and get the latest and greatest Windows laptop but, I know support won't be there like it is with Apple. I also don't like the fact there are so many third parties involved with pc laptops, which makes it easy for costumer no support to kick the can and tell you to go someone else.

I think the whole market is / has been changing for both sides. It is a time of upheaval in many ways. And many loyalists here feel left out / betrayed / taken for granted given their experiences with hardware and the lack of direct ownership until lawsuit talk. I get. No different on the other side. In the end, get what works best for your needs and desires.
 
  • Like
Reactions: LordVic
The Surface Laptop uses PCIe-based NVMe SSD, which is considerably slower than the NVMe SSDs used in Apple's computers with their custom interface/controller. By a factor of 10x on sequential reads.

Please continue reading...

I will agree, based on the benchmarks, the Surface itself is defnitely using a sub par pissant of a drive. inexcusible.

but NVME drives are much faster than what Microsoft is apparently using. Good NVME drives are faster than what Appe put in the Air.

As I said, continue reading instead of jumping defensively as I've provided benchmarks
[doublepost=1551231647][/doublepost]
I had 1 problem with a new 13" MBP in 2012 and Apple replaced the logic board under warranty. Never gave me any more trouble. I have also had the 2016, 2017 TB 13" MBP with no problems, along with the 2018 mini. All of these products have had various problems with many members here. I have never had problems with them. If I had after a new purchase, my ratio would be leaning more your direction.

I could go out and get the latest and greatest Windows laptop but, I know support won't be there like it is with Apple. I also don't like the fact there are so many third parties involved with pc laptops, which makes it easy for costumer no support to kick the can and tell you to go someone else.

I think the whole market is / has been changing for both sides. It is a time of upheaval in many ways. And many loyalists here feel left out / betrayed / taken for granted given their experiences with hardware and the lack of direct ownership until lawsuit talk. I get. No different on the other side. In the end, get what works best for your needs and desires.


yeah, I know i'm coming accross as a cantankerous old bastard :p

there are pros and cons to many devices. for example, as foun, the drive in the Surface is ... a piece of **** to put it midly based on the benchmarks.

we seem to be in a weird period where the name brands like Microsoft and Apple want to push the envelope in price an revenue generation while finding different ways of providing a subpar experience in different avenues.

Honestly, I wouldn't be able to recommend either of these laptops for various reasons and believe there arej far better options, that are far better customized for the user needs than what these two monoliths are currently offering in their computer portfolio.

Microsoft isn't even a blip on the sale numbers and Apple has been on a steady decline over the last few years due to this.

its really time that we start looking to these other more dedicated computer manufacturers who are experts at it as primary recommendations.

Dell's XPS, Razer's Stealth (though it's expensive), Lenovo X1 Carbon seem to be the device that really are leading, with top end specs, innovative designs that try new things and pricing that seems more in line with the performance they are offering.

Microsoft's failings iwth this laptop too are pretty glaring. Lack of Thunderbolt, a proprietary port. poor SSD performance.

both Apple and Microsoft seem to be aiming at the Mall boutique shopper and not the typical computer user. an i find their pricing compared to offerings to be out of touch with what should be the actual reality given manufacturing efficiencies and commoditization of the majority of the components.
 
This really comes down to which OS you prefer. The air should be $1000 not $1200.
I got my wife one for $1000 at microcenter.
It’s a solid laptop.

In fact a lot of places have them for $1000 anyway.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.