Apple's MacBook Air vs. Microsoft's Surface Laptop 2

[citysnaps]

Please continue reading...

I will agree, based on the benchmarks, the Surface itself is defnitely using a sub par pissant of a drive. inexcusible.

but NVME drives are much faster than what Microsoft is apparently using. Good NVME drives are faster than what Appe put in the Air.

As I said, continue reading instead of jumping defensively as I've provided benchmarks

I'm not jumping defensively. Calm down.

I'm merely pointing out in this MacBook Air vs Surface Laptop 2 story, that the MBA SSD performance is 10 times faster than the Surface Laptop 2.

You might not be aware that the MBA is an entry level laptop. And as such, it is not surprising its disk speeds are not at the level of Apple's more expensive MBPs. Still, it uses Apple's custom-designed SSD controller which yields rates 10x over comparable laptops.

What is surprising (not really), is the Surface Laptop 2 SSD performance is so poor. And that's because Microsoft went with a PCIe-based SSD interface to save money.

 

[elmateo487]

I wonder how well a Hackintoshed macOS would run on the Surface Laptop...

Considering Hackintoshed "fully compatible hardware" builds don't even run well, I would say.... not at all.

Don't let the Hackintosh guys try to trick you into thinking they are running machines that are just as functional as buying a Mac off the shelf. Not even close. Want to update your system? Bricked. Or Audio doesn't work. or Bluetooth doesn't work. Or Wifi doesn't work. Or HDMI doesn't work. Or thunderbolt video monitors don't work.

The list goes on. and on. and on. and on.

But all you need to do is edit this kext somewhere! So you spend days getting it all setup, only to find out Apple released a security patch that you need to install, and BAM you are back to square one.

From a guy who has hackintoshed 3 times now, and built many PCs. Never again.

 

[LordVic]

I'm not jumping defensively. Calm down.

I'm merely pointing out in this MacBook Air vs Surface Laptop 2 story, that the MBA SSD performance is 10 times faster than the Surface Laptop.

You might not be aware that the MBA is an entry level laptop. And as such, it is not surprising its disk speeds are not at the level of Apple's more expensive MBPs. Still, it uses Apple's custom-designed SSD controller which yields rates 10x over comparable laptops.

What is surprising (not really), is the Surface Laptop 2 SSD performance is so poor.

yeah, but the point i'm making is that the SS in the AIR si not the same one in the Pro and is approximately 1/2 the performance. drives that signifcantly less than Apple's offerings are faster in this device. Yet the device prices itself like it had the top of the line parts.

if the Air's price was 899-999, point is moot because the performance to dollar becomes far more reasonable.

but yeah. those Surface speeds are inexcusable given how dirt cheap fast NVME drives are. as my benchmar showed, even at retail you can get high end performance for little.

Especially when the competition to the Surface, like the Razer, XPS etc are all shipping SSDs capable of numbers like I posted.

As I said in the post above, I would be very VERY hard pressed to recommend either of these laptops for their price and performances

 

[EchoplexSE]

View the video. It does what you are wanting.
[doublepost=1551220250][/doublepost]
I think the base Air should be $899. I would have bought one at that price. As is, I agree with you that it is overpriced.

You can snag them regularly for $999, which isn’t far off. I’m pretty happy with mine and don’t demand a lot of storage but I wish it had more

 

[citysnaps]

yeah, but the point i'm making is that the SS in the AIR si not the same one in the Pro and is approximately 1/2 the performance. drives that signifcantly less than Apple's offerings are faster in this device. Yet the device prices itself like it had the top of the line parts.

if the Air's price was 899-999, point is moot because the performance to dollar becomes far more reasonable.

but yeah. those Surface speeds are inexcusable given how dirt cheap fast NVME drives are. as my benchmar showed, even at retail you can get high end performance for little.

Especially when the competition to the Surface, like the Razer, XPS etc are all shipping SSDs capable of numbers like I posted.

As I said in the post above, I would be very VERY hard pressed to recommend either of these laptops for their price and performances

Yes, that's the point you are making now, not in your original post.

And it is not half the performance. It's roughly the same as the 2018 13" MBP, and 90%+ of the 2018 15" MBP.

The 2018 MacBook Air screams on SSD performance. Maybe you can find an entry level non-Apple laptop that exceeds its SSD performance?

 

[LordVic]

Yes, that's the point you are making now, not in your original post.

And it is not half the performance. It's roughly the same as the 2018 13" MBP, and 90%+ of the 2018 15" MBP.

The 2018 MacBook Air screams on SSD performance. Maybe you can find a non-Apple laptop that exceeds its SSD performance?

the benchmarks are the SSD in my Razer blade stealth

And yes, I made a faulty assumption that Microsoft was putting the same standard of NVME drive in their computer that others are using for NVME.... I was wrong.

they're clearly using a complete subpar device and should be embarassed

OTHER manufacturers are absolutely using more normal performing SSD's.

 

[citysnaps]

the benchmarks are the SSD in my Razer blade stealth

How much does that laptop cost? Is it an entry level laptop?

And...Are there other non-Apple laptops that have better SSD performance?

 

[Apple_Robert]

You can snag them regularly for $999, which isn’t far off. I’m pretty happy with mine and don’t demand a lot of storage but I wish it had more

I just snagged a brand new 2017 MB (256GB) for $799 (total price). If I hadn't, I would still be mulling over the Air, looking for a good deal. As it stands, I just can't see spending $1,000 plus tax, tag and title on the new Air, even with some features I like. If a good deal pops up from the Insider etc. I may get one and sell the new MB I just got.

 

[LordVic]

How much does that laptop cost? Is it an entry level laptop?

yes. It's Razer's copy of the MacBook Air.

cost me $1300 CAD (so 999 USD) when it was new. i7-7500u. 16gb RAM, 250gb NVME SSD. 1800x1200 Touch screen. 13" ultrabook form factor. 1x USB-C/Thunderbolt 3, 2x USB-A 3.1 and an HDMI port.

 

[citysnaps]

yes. It's Razer's copy of the MacBook Air.

cost me $1300 CAD (so 999 USD) when it was new. i7-7500u. 16gb RAM, 250gb NVME SSD. 1800x1200 Touch screen. 13" ultrabook form factor.

But that uses a PCIe-based NVMe SSD. With around 250 MByte/sec SSD sequential rate.

About 1/10th of the 2,500 Mbyte/sec SSD rate of the 2018 MacBook Air.

How does that even compare?

 

[LordVic]

j

But that uses a PCIe-based NVMe. With around 250 MByte/sec SSD sequential rate.

About 1/10th of the 2,500 Mbyte/sec SSD rate of the 2018 MacBook Air.

I literally posted the bencmarch from this devvice with the 3.5Gbps rate

where the **** are you pulling that number 250MByte/sec seq


edit, nevermind, just realized who I was arguing with and now remember why i had you iggy.

 

[Howard2k]

I think it is a timely article, even if it doesn't delve deeper into specifics and hands on screen usage comparisons.

It materially misstates the capabilities of the Surface.

 

[Jimmy James]

I don't understand why people fixate on the sticker price of things. Consider all the money you'll spend over the entire time you intend to own the product, add it all up and then see which is the less expensive option. I know a lot of Mac owners will keep their MacBooks for many years longer than the vast majority of Windows laptop users. My MacBook Air lasted me 7 years before I decided to replace it. I would rather spend $1199 on another one that will likely last me another 7 years than spend $999 every one to two years.

I agree with your premise but you missed some things:

1. Get comparable storage and the pricing gap is much bigger.
2. The windows machine will probably last longer than a year or two.
3. If you have an absolute budget the Apple machine can quickly become untenable, regardless of the value proposition.
4. Apple laptops have become wrought with reliability problems. I have a 10 year old Mac going strong and I don’t have that faith in the new machines.

 

[Apple_Robert]

It materially misstates the capabilities of the Surface.

In a subsequent post, I acknowledged inaccuracies in the article and expanded further on my line of thought.

 

[citysnaps]

j

I literally posted the bencmarch from this devvice with the 3.5Gbps rate

where the **** are you pulling that number 250MByte/sec seq

Question: Do you understand the difference between Gbps (Giga bits per second) and MBps (Mega Bytes per second)?



"where the **** are you pulling that number 250MByte/sec seq"

Here: Laptop Magazine

"On the File Transfer test, the Stealth's 256GB PCIe NVMe M.2 SSD took 20 seconds to duplicate 4.97GB of mixed-media files for a transfer rate of 254 megabytes per second. It was enough to dispatch the Surface Laptop 2 (203 MBps), which has the same amount of storage."


The 2018 MacBook Air SSD performance is 2.1 GBytes/sec seq reads. I misquoted above.

 

[RickInHouston]

I like the surface laptop design a lot but I don't think I can ever go back to a normal trackpad for daily use.

"I can't go back to a normal trackpad... I don't know what an abnormal trackpad is."

 

[BigBoy2018]

Never thought I would say this, but that windows PC is sexier then the Mac. What a fine looking machine.

Disturbing that a machine that you use for word processing, excell spreadsheets, genneral all around work is called ‘sexy’ by anyone.
Perhaps you need to get out more?

You and that fine looking machine need to go get a room.

 

[tmmacops]

I had a Surface Laptop 2 for about a month; meh. Keyboard was okay, screen was nice but odd aspect ratio to be honest. After a couple of weeks of use, it started making a clicking/tacky noise near the trackpad. Since it was on a Windows Domain the Windows 10 Hello feature was wonky, and worked about half the time.

Windows 10 was better, but overall experience was somewhat abysmal for me. I've use a DELL XPS13, and it was better than the SL2, but still a Windows 10 laptop and not conducive to my workflow. YMMV, and complete subjective on my part. Essentially, not a one size fits all...

 

[LordVic]

Question: Do you understand the difference between Gbps (Giga bits per second) and MBps (Mega Bytes per second)?



"where the **** are you pulling that number 250MByte/sec seq"

Here: Laptop Magazine

"On the File Transfer test, the Stealth's 256GB PCIe NVMe M.2 SSD took 20 seconds to duplicate 4.97GB of mixed-media files for a transfer rate of 254 megabytes per second. It was enough to dispatch the Surface Laptop 2 (203 MBps), which has the same amount of storage."

you are quite literally pulling 2,500MBs speed of the MBA out of your rear to inflate your opinion on the MBA

my post with benchmarks literally compare the the two SSD's. The MBA SSD DOES NOT PERFORM 2,500MBPS.

you are conflating the performance of the MBpro SSD with MBA. the MBA SSD is slower (albeit not dramatically) than a decent NVME.

the benchmarks are in that post. Same number to number comparison.

we're done here. you're grasping.

 

[citysnaps]

you are quite literally pulling 2,500Mbs speed of the MBA out of your rear to inflate your opinion on the MBA

my post with benchmarks literally compare the the two SSD's. The MBA SSD DOES NOT PERFORM 2,500MBPS.

you are conflating the performance of the MBpro SSD with MBA. the MBA SSD is slower (albeit not dramatically) than a decent NVME.

the benchmarks are in that post. Same number to number comparison.

we're done here. you're grasping.

Again, calm down.

As I said above in my edited post, it's 2.1 GBytes/sec for the 2018 MBA. I mistakenly quoted a 2018 MBP.

How does that compare with your 254 Mbytes/sec Razor Stealth? Or the Surface Laptop 2?

Also, how does the MBA compare with other entry level laptops? There is no comparison.

Do you now understand the difference between Gbits/sec and MBytes/sec?

 

[Shanpdx]

there is NO way to find decent Mac under $1500

with 15W TDP CPU (Dual/Quad core)
with 16GB RAM
with 512GB SSD

one has to go through refurbished section to find good specs. It is over priced, apple needs to readjust.

Touch bar is not great feature, if so it would have made it to other Mac line up. Please bring back the Mac Laptop prices normal inflation adjusted prices (do not screw us with one port, two port, quad port crap as well as dual core, quad core, 6 core CPU crap).

Intel, Samsung and other tech (display and such) companies putting so much R&D as you are, please bring the prices to normal, it makes even more sense when nothing can be upgraded in the Mac lineup, what a environmental disaster.

 

[LordVic]

As I said above in my edited post, it's 2.1 GBytes/sec for the 2018 MBA. I mistakenly quoted a 2018 MBP.

How does that compare with your 254 Mbytes/sec Razor Stealth? Or the Surface Laptop 2?

Also, how does the MBA compare with other entry level laptops? There is no comparison.

again, i have quite literally provided benchmarks refuting your claim that you are repeating.

please feel free to provide your own CrystalDiskMark bench scors of the MBA to refute the provided numbers by the cited page I have linked.

you are continuing to conflate devices, performance and calculated numbers. When comparing a decent NVME drive in my benchmark. the very one I RAN myself an provided screenshot of. The NVME drive outperformed in every category the MacBook Air SSD.

oh ffs, you know what. Back on ignore with you

 

[Kai Wang]

$999 for the current MacBook Air and DONE. But no, Apple just had to reach out for that little extra. However the MacBook Air is made out of 100% recycled aluminum, an industry first, and that should be commended. I don't know why Apple doesn't advertise that fact more.

 

[Shanpdx]

what is the big deal about SSD performance when it is paired with 7W CPU? and mostly base model carry 128GB/256GB

SSD performance in MBA is not a factor in 2019 anymore, capacity and overall specs, yes...

it is not aimed at Pro (or whoever apple feels Pros are) ... Absolute performance of SSD just does not matter.

 

[citysnaps]

again, i have quite literally provided benchmarks refuting your claim that you are repeating.

please feel free to provide your own CrystalDiskMark bench scors of the MBA to refute the provided numbers by the cited page I have linked.

you are continuing to conflate devices, performance and calculated numbers. When comparing a decent NVME drive in my benchmark. the very one I RAN myself an provided screenshot of. The NVME drive outperformed in every category the MacBook Air SSD.

oh ffs, you know what. Back on ignore with you

I provided credible links up above. From the same sources you listed up above.

The Surface Pro 2 and Razor Stealth run at 200-250 MBytes/sec seq SSD rate. Why? Because their NVMe memory is PCIe-based.

The 2018 MacBook Air SSD runs at a 2.1 GBytes/sec rate. Why? Because Apple uses a custom-designed controller for their NVMe SSD.

That's a roughly 8-10X difference in SSD speed. And very significant.